Let's get one thing in the open before I begin... i'm starting to turn into a handling fanatic. I'm absolutely obsessed with having a car that can grip and handle curves like nobody's business. Through all the suspension mods and fine tuning, i've found that you can have your car oversteer or understeer depending on your tuning (springs, sway bars, strut bars, tire pressure, etc etc). But my question is, which would you rather have?

I understand that understeering is "safer" for the daily driver. Natural instinct is to brake or let go of the accelerator when a driver feels like they are losing control of the car. This of course shifts weight to the front of the car and then makes the front grip better.

But I always hear people say that it's better for a car to oversteer. Well, i can see how this is good since in oversteer, the front wheels still have grip, so you can still control where you turn, but how well would this work in real life driving?

For example if i were on the inside lane of a two lane road going into a curve and for some reason or another, I just had the urge to pass the other car. I accelerate to get pass the car and all of a sudden the rear wheels brake loose and i begin to oversteer. Well, steering into the slide to regain control would take me into the outside lane and into the other car, braking would just make the car oversteer even more (weight shifting to the front), and not doin anything would probably mean hitting the other car as well.

Heh, i know some guy is just going to say "well, don't do that, stupid." But i'm just trying to find out how you would handle that situation IF it ever happened.

I'm sure everyone has tried pushing their car to the limit on a turn, and understeer is relatively easy to correct. I want to tune my car to be neutral, perhaps a little oversteer... so i want to be able to correct an oversteer error when it happens.. because I won't know the limit of the car until i cross it and to me, that seems kind of dangerous without the proper knowledge.

Since you and I have a FWD car, my preference would be to get the steering as neutral as possible, and if you can't get it exactly neutral (which will probably be the case) then bias it for very slight understeer.

Oversteer is tricky to get a handle of if you are not VERY skilled and used to it. It scares the shit out of most people.

I am guesing in a FWD oversteer is more manageable than in a RWD car since under power you will probably understeer with a FWD anyway, so it could balance out the oversteer. With a RWD if your car oversteers and you nail the gas, then you would spin.

Even so, I'd still bias the car for slight understeer. Just a tiny bit.

Yeah it denpends on many properties of the car, looking at just the setups of fwd, rwd, or awd.... If I was in rwd I would opt for slight understeer depending on the wieght distribution of the car, in my fwd talon I like to have slight oversteer, and i would also go with slight oversteer in a awd talon.

I think the fwd eclipses/talons stock come with way to much understeer. I have tokico blues, and strut bars are on the way although I probably will wind up just using the rear one to get more oversteer.

Having a car that handles neutral is indeed the best as upon entering a corner, you can just keep your foot on the gas and take/drift the corner; however, if you wuss out, a 360 is in your future. Understeering is best for the street with conservative drivers as it is easy to take a corner on extreme situations. This is evident because when people understeer, they usually let off the gas. This makes weight go to the front, and in effect, the front tires get some much needed grip.

I have pro kits, front and rear strut bars, and illuminas. My car sticks curves. I set the illuminas to 3 and 3.

9D9, i'm with you bro! All I need is a rear stb and we'd have the same setup.

Right now though, i'm worried about getting sway bars. If I go with RMDSM it's definately going to be neutral, maybe even slight oversteer. I just want to get an idea of oversteering and understeering traits before I decide. Though i'm sure the RMDSM bars could be tweaked toward understeer after messing with shocks/tirepresure/etc. My worry with that is if I tweak it wrong, then i'll be surprised by the sudden oversteer and possibly cause an accident.

My guess is that pretty much every other brand of sway bar will be set for some degree of understeer.

I wouldn't worry about the oversteer. I would rather have some oversteer actually. Less effort to take curves. You just have to know ur car and ur car's limits.

most people aim for neutral. oversteer would recquire finesse on the throttle to keep the car balanced. in a car like ours that comes way underpowered and understeers heavily oversteer would be a pain because you'd need alot of throttle or alot of grip on the front wheels to bring it back.

>For example if i were on the inside lane of a two lane road
>going into a curve and for some reason or another, I just
>had the urge to pass the other car. I accelerate to get
>pass the car and all of a sudden the rear wheels brake loose
>and i begin to oversteer. Well, steering into the slide to
>regain control would take me into the outside lane and into
>the other car, braking would just make the car oversteer
>even more (weight shifting to the front), and not doin
>anything would probably mean hitting the other car as well.

To help answer your question, I would think that you would maintain the slide all the way around the corner by counter steering just enough to keep from spinning but at the same time not straightening out from the slide (ever watch sprint cars race on a dirt oval). This would be fairly difficult with a front wheel drive car since you cannot use the gas to keep you in the slide in case you counter-steer too much. You could also just let off the accelerator or feather it until you collect the rear end.

I have found that with a front wheel drive if the rear end is sliding just continue to accelerate and the rear wheels will fall in line. Of course you can also release/feather the accelerator if you are already going too fast.

Just remember if you miss-judge the corner and you come in too hot or you accelerate too soon you may not have a plan of action available that would allow you to avoid an accident.

well well well here's what you can do with oversteer!





Oversteer is good for drifting!!! And yes FF can drift. By kicking the tail out with oversteer you can whip the cars around corners, it's not the fastest in a FF but it worx. Especially if you use special techniques. I use left foot braking to induce oversteer like how you give more throttle in a FR you get oversteer with left foot braking the car will shift weight and oversteer with pinpoint precision. I can actually make the car drift without pulling the ebrake by using left foot braking, see those pictures there those were done without using the ebrake.

Here's another good example of how oversteer helps lets say oh I'm entering a long sweeping hairpin. I heel and toe and late brake as I enter the corner to shift weight to the front of the car and then enter the corner and attempt to apex it. I apply throttle... uh oh understeer so I left foot brake shift weight to the front and uh oh look the car is cornering neutrally or oversteering, I can now point the car in the direction I want to go by how much I step on the brake pedal. If I oversteer too much I'll countersteer to control the drift. Now I'm oversteering and have the accelerator down at the same time building boost. Now I'm at the end of the hairpin and I release the brake and bam I catapult out of the turn since the boost is till building.

Sports car people prefer oversteer to understeer because oversteer you can control by throttle and countersteering but understeer you can't do jack snappy with you just plow.

It's not about suspension setups its how you drive it that counts. I mean yeah I like to play with my suspension make my the rear damper stiffer than the front and front softer so I can shift weight to the front faster and all. But ultimately it's the driver that makes the biggest difference.

I got to drive a stock RS after having driven my car for years and I was able to push that stock RS for everything it had and I was able to apply all the driving techniques that I learned. RS doesn't understeer a lot at all from the factory, if anything it oversteers a bit. My MR2 understeers more than my eclipse, I love the eclipse suspension it's built so strong.

Stock RS doesn't seem to understeer? Hmm. I feel like my car understeers way too often and I find myself backing off of the throttle alot. Maybe it's because of the Neuspeed bar in the front ( guess it's just that good!). Looks like I should invest in a rear STB.

Hades, do you have a pic of the RRE rear upper bar?