I already have a SAFC... but was wondering what is better...

I have a ITS T3/T4 Hybrid 480cc injectors upgraded fuel pump and ajustable FPR.

E-manage definately. Complete stand-alone lets you tune the exact fuel curves.

I'm running Emanage with 440cc injectors. The previous owner of my engine/turbo kit was using Accel DFI and 625cc injectors.

My tunning shop said that 500cc was the highest they could go on the Emanage. I really don't know.

I'd say E-manage by far. But correct me if I'm wrong...I don't think it's a complete stand alone. I beleive it's still a piggy back, but it offers much more tunablity of your fuel curve then an s-afc. It's a lot like the 4G63 guy's DSMLink...as you can use a computer interface to tweak to your hearts content.;-)

i think the e-manange is overrated. saving up for an accel DFI VII would be a lot more effective. the e-manange alters fuel mixture the same way that the S-AFC does (by messing with the MAP sensor), therefore it doesn't adress the issue of advanced timing. for N/A people this isn't really an issue... the only neat thing about it is you get a nice GUI where with the S-AFC you just see a histogram looking thing.

...supposely, the e-manange can be hooked up to alter timing, but i've heard that no one has successfully done this on a 2gnt. jamesman has e-manange - i remember a huge thread about it that was posted a few months back...


EDIT: i forgot to add that according to a thread i read a few days ago, the e-manange can only accurately controll injectors that are 1.5 times as large as stock.

E-manage is not in any way, shape, or form a stand-alone device. it is a piggy-back controller just like the SAFC, just with more bells and whistles. you run into the same problem with it, as you do with the SAFC when using just it to control large injectors, which is increased timing. it alters the MAP signal to close the injectors longer to make fuel leaner, just like the SAFC does. i do believe with the addition of the E01 boost controller, and other various sensors and things it either allows you to see your timing advance, or to adjust it, not sure which though. an E-manage setup with all the possible additions will cost upwards of 1k. ill take the DFI for that kinda cash.

1997 Silver RS
Wiseco 8.8:1 Pistons(back to low compression!)
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
440's
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.3@90mph 2.015 60'(Nitto Drag radials, i suck)

You can make power with anything if you know what you are doing. The E-Manage is better if you know how to use it.

It can control pretty large injectors. My setup is 525's with the E-manage and all sensors. That is the largest I could find in saturated. It will meet my needs just fine. Most people have not even maxed out what you can make with an AFC yet. Going standalone and not knowing how to use it is the worse thing you could do. Stick with what you understand and you will find you make the most power and have the most fun. Keep It Simple.

>Going standalone and not knowing how to use it is the worse
>thing you could do. Stick with what you understand and you
>will find you make the most power and have the most fun. Keep
>It Simple.

Exactly.

WERD to that Chris!

I honestly think the E-manage is the best setup for what most of us on this board do. A stand alone takes time to get everything right, and for installation, the emanage is 5 wires, as for a stand alone! I can't begin to count the number of connections that need to be made. Well, the unit does alter the map signal just like the AFC, but the timing advance issue can be addressed in other ways like Murix and I have done. honestly, with the afc I noticed that it was kind of slow, i think the processor in there is not that fast, the e-manage on the other hand appears to have a very fast processor so it can compensate better. As for the price tag. the emanage itself will run you around 500 dollars for everything. now when you add the e-01 BOOST CONTROLLER/e-manage programming unit/data display then you get to the 1000 dollar range. You have to remember for that 1000 you get a fuel computer, a boost controller, and a Data display. other than the standard 10 data parameters you can input 2 analog and 2 puls signals from anywhere else in teh car and scale it to anything you want. EG. my plans are to get AEM's UEGO unit and output the 5 volt signal to the e-01 and then scale it to A/F ratio, so on the screen it will say 9 or 14.7 or 11 instead of like .98 volt. So, basically, it appears that the people talking trash about the emanage are the ones that have not used it and have no idea what it is capable of. vinnie, Chris and I have been using it, and you have not heard any complaints from us, the ones who REALLY know.

lates
james

Just wanted to make sure, i was NOT bashing the E-manage at all. if it came off that way, i sure didnt mean for it to. you mentioned that even though it alters the MAP signal, which will increase timing in part-throttle, you have found a way to control this with the E-manage? or are you just pulling timing with a MSD DIS-2? thanks for the info.


1997 Silver RS
Wiseco 8.8:1 Pistons(back to low compression!)
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
440's
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.3@90mph 2.015 60'(Nitto Drag radials, i suck)

I also purchased a MSD DIS-2 ignition i hear this helps controll the timing??? So i have a SAFC and a MSD now.. What are the capabilities of a MSD ignition?

so you got all this stuff before you knew what it did or which one would be better for your set up?
I hope that was not the case.

I know what it does i was just going by recommendation from a performance shop.. I was just courious as to it's further capabilities.


>so you got all this stuff before you knew what it did or
>which one would be better for your set up?
>I hope that was not the case.

I am using the DIS-2 to pull timing for now. I have the BTM which is an add on to allow for full timing adjustment on a laptop. I am using this now because it has always been in the car and was used with the DFI when it was there. The plan is to use the E-Manage, but for now getting one part at a time tuned out is more important. My car has a shitload of timing because of the AFX ECU so we are pulling out 10deg to compensate for it. Prior to the AFX ECU we left my timing flat across the board. Stock timing was perfectly adequate. Armond pulled out all timing control in his Avenger for a while there and ran 30psi on the stock ignition. No reason to mess with stock timing unless you just really need to. You will know when you need to. Logging works great. ;)

The biggest reason I like the E-Manage is because it uses its own 3-bar map sensor and additional fuel tables on top of the stock table. It does not have the same issues as the AFC with timing. The only time you are modifying the stock fuel maps is when you are out of boost. Once in boost it swaps to its own map sensor and additonal fuel maps which add fuel in addition to the stock map. It wires directly to the injectors to add more pulsewidth. Make sense? Much smarter and accurate. Works well.

WERD TO THAT x2 Chris

hehe
I am running a programmable dis2 with the e-manage. i amonly pulling out like 3 degrees at max boost max rpm.
In my opinion, the key is to get the mechanical FPR (SFMU) to do most of the fuel compensation. The key is to try to get a mechanically made fuel pressure curve to be as close to what you need and make minor adjustments with the piggyback. I am running like 15-17 psi fuel pressure at idle and am using a 6.5:1 disk with 440cc injectors. This is real close to the proper fuel i need. My emanage correction are no bigger than +- 10% this allows the timing to be minimally affected by correction. I think the biggest mistake people make when tuning is that the use the piggyback to pull out like 30 or 40% that is when timing gets all crazy.

Lates
James

Kick ass. the Emanage of course is not a piggy back. I have myself completely gotten rid of the MAP sensor adjustment with the emanage. I ran into way too many funky behaviors in my car when the emanage was even zero'ed out on the MAP adjustment. Bad Idle, check engine lights, etc.

I now am configuring my car to use the 8-injector setup with stock injectors (so no MAP sensor adjustments).

I am using the additional injector map on the emanage to add fuel to my car (which controls the main injectors) but also control adding fuel to the 4 additional injectors (yes, you can control 4 additional injectors in the emanage without buying the AIC).

Think about this when you want to know what the emanage can do:

-To remove (lean) fuel, you use the MAP table
-To add fuel, you use the additional injector table
-To change ignition, you use the ignition table (and you are right, no one that i know has implemented this yet for our cars)
-To control 2 channels of injectors (and with the right resistors, each channel can control 2 injector each - 4 total), you use the extra injector table
-To use boost as an axis for any of the maps above, you use the 3-bar map sensor

HOpe this helps. The GUI and 256 point map tables kick ass.

v.

The method James mentioned is how we tune all our cars regardless of what the fuel control method is. :)

not to be a prick or anything, but just so people know. I got this directly from the GReddy website:

http://greddy.com/products/electronics.htm#eManage

"e-Manage is an inexpensive programmable fuel management system that allows you to properly tune your factory fuel system, without having to change the entire factory ECU system to an expensive "stand-alone" unit. The e-Manage system is a universal "piggy-back" type unit, which taps into most factory ECU wiring and it still utilizes the existing sensors. Basic functions will allow the user to slightly alter factory injector duty-cycle(± 20% at 5 preset RPM points), by intercepting and altering airflow or MAP sensor signals. For VTEC cars you can adjust the VTEC shift point."

So it seems to me like e-manage is a piggy-back system

I think you misunderstood what Vinnie said, he said that the way he is using it makes the unit not a "piggyback" type unit.
I think all the people using the e-manage have already used the afc and found its limitations and have moved on to bigger and better things, hence the e-manage. basically, the e-manage has more control and is overall a more high tech unit than the afc, I don't care what anyone says. But it all boils down to what the owner wants, if they want a basic piggyback and don't want to mess with it much then get an AFC, if you want more control and options for just a little more money then get the e-manage. for most the people on this board, I believe that the afc will suffice, its those who want more out of their unit that should buy the e-manage.

Lates
James

OK...I see, my appologies Vinnie. Like I said, I didn't want to sound like a prick and the last thing I want to do is offened anyone on this board...especialy someone that been around that long. I know I'm just a punk ass noob, but I'm learning and I try to leave relevant posts...most of the time...LOL