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Forum nameEngine Management Systems & Controllers
Topic subjectneed advice with upgrading my 420a injectors
Topic URLhttps://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=i54&topic_id=4711
4711, need advice with upgrading my 420a injectors
Posted by eggman1345, Nov-10-09 01:03 AM
To start i will give you my list of mods i hope this helps and is not a waste of time.
I have a fully built 420a
stage 2 crower cams
medium port and polish job
1mm oversized valves
cp pistons
eagle rods
60mm modern performance throttle body
port matched intake manifold
car runs around a 10:1 compression

just recently i put on a .63 ar hot side t/3 t/4 turbo
i have basicly a stock fuel system
i have an FCD ( i know this is working correctly i have tried others) i have also tried to use in conjuntion with the FCD a missing link this just made the idle worse and i still had the fuel cut when hitting boost.
a 12:1 fmu to be safe for now until i get things working better
stock injectors
with a walbro 190 fuel pump
mostly 3" intercooler pipeing some 2" spots to keep the A/C and a front mount intercooler with 2.5" inlet and outlet.

I get fuel cut around 2-4 psi when i floor it basicly as soon as the turbo kicks in around 3200 it starts to pulse because i dont have enough fuel.
i can hit the gass about 50% and boost around 5-6 psi and go up the rpm's just fine and it pulls good.
I know this motor is breething good with all the mods done and needs a good fuel supply.

Im looking into getting 370cc rc injectors or some 340cc chepaer injectors. I have done the math using online calculators and i know these will supply enough fuel to run 8 on the street and 12 psi at the track.
I should be around the 250-300hp range Does that sound reasonable with the mods listed?. I was running 145whp before turbo and it was also an auto trans then i have switched to a manual tranny now.

my question is with my setup will the injectors be ok to put in with the stock ecu and no engine managment if so what ones would be best i would like to use the 370's if possible for piece of mind, i don't mind a little rich idle i just want it to be driveable on the street and idle half way decent.
Im not sure exacly how a fuel pressure regulator works but from what i understand it controls the idle fuel pressure ONLY correct me if im wrong would this be something i should get and will it affect my FMU in any way.
If its not possible or will run like complete crap and i wont be happy what should i do to work with what i got.
I have money but would like to spend the least amount possible just to get the car driveable for the time being until i pull the motor again next winter and upgrade to megasquirt........

Thank you in advance for anything you can help me out with as i am just now starting to learn about the fuel system.
4712, RE: need advice with upgrading my 420a injectors
Posted by justins71, Nov-10-09 11:05 AM
Absolutely first thing you need to do is get a wideband. That will tell you if in fact you are gettin lean misfire - which I highly doubt as you're running a 12:1 already. It might be running sluggishly lean compared to MBT mixture, but it shouldn't misfire.

The fuel pressure regulator is designed to keep a constant relative pressure compared to intake manifold pressure. You check the base fuel pressure by unplugging your vacuum reference, and say it reads 50psi. When you plug your reference hose back up (say you have 20"Hg vacuum on your manifold) your fuel pressure will drop ~10psi (Hg->psi conversion) in order to keep your relative pressure between the two equal. That's the reasoning for a 1:1 rising rate FPR. It accounts for vacuum, but also raises the pressure 1psi per 1lb of boost, to keep that same ratio.

Quick questions, what year is your car and ECU that you're using? Some early ECU's don't require missing link/FCD. How is your FMU hooked up (location, plumbing)? Are you using the stock FPR now?

Personally I'd junk the 190 and get a 255 Walbro, you'll need it eventually anyway.

Good starting place
4713, RE: need advice with upgrading my 420a injectors
Posted by eggman1345, Nov-10-09 11:57 AM
I have a 97 eagle talon, the FMU is mounted in the back right by the fuel tank, i simply have it hooked up and ran a vacuum line and teed off from the intake manifold same place i have my boost gauge.
I had a cheap FDC and then i got the one for $50 that has the 5 wire desing and it seems to make the studder or missfire as you say, pusle faster and did seem to help a bit as the other one was only a variable resistor and not a voltage cap.
Then i went out and got a missing link and threw that on there still it did the same exact thing but ran like crap at lower rpm, i think it was making the fuel mixture to rich as it would smoke a little at start up something it never does. The missing link has been pulled off because it did not make a difference but i still have it.

All i have as of now is an air/fuel gauge hooked up to the o2 i got it for free and all it does is bounce around i know these are not something to go by but it normaly reads highly rich most of the time.

I am running a 12:1 but im using stock injectors and a 190 fuel pump so if the pump only pushes out 80psi of fuel its not going to get enough fuel it would be flowing somewhere around a 300-350cc injector that is way to small for my car.
I have messed around with fuel calculators and come to find out i need at least a 450cc equivelent injector and the 370's i want to put in will supply enough fuel.
What do you think my missfire is due to. remember when i hit the gass about 50% it will boost about 6-8 psi and pull hard all the way up.

Im also currently working on contacting hahn to get the portfueler to save me the headache im so sick of working on this fuel problem and by the time i get it fixed im gonna have another $500 into it my as well spend a grand and know its going to work right.
4714, RE: need advice with upgrading my 420a injectors
Posted by VelocitaPaola, Nov-10-09 06:23 PM
It sounds to me like you still have fuel cut. Your FCD probably isn't tuned correctly.

Though those fuel injector calculators are handy, they probably aren't accurate for your purposes. Most of them don't take into account rising rate fuel pressures. The injector sizes you're coming up with assume you have a static fuel pressure and some sort of electronic means for increasing the injector pulsewidth.