Im not sure if this belongs in the advanced discussion, but it seems out of the realm of basic turbo discussion to me.

Okay, so Ive been trying to so far figure out how to make the e-manage ignition work with our cars. Everything seems pretty straightforward. The only problems I seem to run into is this. The e-manage has different settings for Ignition Channels. The only ignition channel setting on the e-manage that would seem to work with our firing order (which is 1-3-4-2) is the "Inline 4 Cylider Individual Ignition". However, that setting has to take in 4 channels, apparently 1 for each spark plug. TAs far as I can figure, our ECU has only three outputs to the coil. There is a Black/Blue wire (Pin #2) and a Brown Wire (Pin #3). The third output, which is a Black/Red wire, seems to me to be a ground or a positive ground (it seems to also run to the injectors, the o2 sensors, etc.).

Has anyone solved this problem? Is there a way to go around this 2 wire setup? Am I even making any sense? Im at work right now, but when I get home I will post up some schematics and wire color diagrams of the ECU -> Coil connections. Any help would be greatly appreciated. THanks!

We run a wasted spark. therefore, only two hot wires leading to the coil pack.

I know this doesn't help your wiring situation, but thought it may allow you to look for a 4cyl wasted spark type if there is such a thing in your setup manual.

Originally posted by neovb
Im not sure if this belongs in the advanced discussion, but it seems out of the realm of basic turbo discussion to me. Okay, so Ive been trying to so far figure out how to make the e-manage ignition work with our cars. Everything seems pretty straightforward. The only problems I seem to run into is this. The e-manage has different settings for Ignition Channels. The only ignition channel setting on the e-manage that would seem to work with our firing order (which is 1-3-4-2) is the "Inline 4 Cylider Individual Ignition". However, that setting has to take in 4 channels, apparently 1 for each spark plug. TAs far as I can figure, our ECU has only three outputs to the coil. There is a Black/Blue wire (Pin #2) and a Brown Wire (Pin #3). The third output, which is a Black/Red wire, seems to me to be a ground or a positive ground (it seems to also run to the injectors, the o2 sensors, etc.). Has anyone solved this problem? Is there a way to go around this 2 wire setup? Am I even making any sense? Im at work right now, but when I get home I will post up some schematics and wire color diagrams of the ECU -> Coil connections. Any help would be greatly appreciated. THanks!

Actually I think that might help. So basically the ECU fires the spark plug even when two of the cylinders are on the exhaust stroke.
The ECU has to fire "each" spark plug at least once per every revolution... so then, that means that for every full revolution there are actually 8 sparks being created. The ECU still has to send out 4 pulses, so then it must send 2 pulses per wire per revolution of the motor. Right?

If thats the case, then I have to figure out a way to make the e-manage see each pulse out of the wire as a separate pulse.... I guess it would also be possible to somehow use the camshaft angle sensor input into the ECU to determine which which exact plug needs to be fired and somehow split the ignition output wire to the proper channel on the e-manage. Combining them after the e-manage shouldnt be a problem using the right arrangement of diodes and whatnot....

So... how does the camshaft angle sensor function, voltage wise? How does it tell the ECU where the camshaft is at?

Does any of that make sense?

Well, technically, no two cylinders on are the exhaust stroke at the same time.
Our firing order is 1-3-4-2

So (talking to myself) when for example:
1 - combusting
3 - compressing
4 - intake
2 - exhaust

*I think that's right*

For each crank revolution each cylinder goes through 2 of the processes above. (ie. piston 1 will go through combustion and exhaust in one crank revolution in the above example). So in each crank revolution, every cylinder has 1 spark.

I dont' know the answers to your camshaft sensor questions, but I would think it would be very difficult to separate out the spark signals. I'm interested in what you find here though b/c I may follow this path as well.

Originally posted by neovb
Actually I think that might help. So basically the ECU fires the spark plug even when two of the cylinders are on the exhaust stroke. The ECU has to fire "each" spark plug at least once per every revolution... so then, that means that for every full revolution there are actually 8 sparks being created. The ECU still has to send out 4 pulses, so then it must send 2 pulses per wire per revolution of the motor. Right? If thats the case, then I have to figure out a way to make the e-manage see each pulse out of the wire as a separate pulse.... I guess it would also be possible to somehow use the camshaft angle sensor input into the ECU to determine which which exact plug needs to be fired and somehow split the ignition output wire to the proper channel on the e-manage. Combining them after the e-manage shouldnt be a problem using the right arrangement of diodes and whatnot.... So... how does the camshaft angle sensor function, voltage wise? How does it tell the ECU where the camshaft is at? Does any of that make sense?

the problem is not the firing order, or that our car is a waste spark system. The problem is that the Stock ECU switches our coil using 2 large power transistors. The transistors in the e-manage are not robust enough to handle the amount of current the coil needs to fire. A transistor pack needs to be made and placed between the emanage and the coil. I haven't had the time to make one.

late
james

So what inputs did you use on the emanage? What settings did you use? I noticed there is a setting for grouped ignition (1&4 on one input and 2&3 on the other input). Would that option work for inputs into the e-manage?

As far as the transitor pack... what sort of tolerances does it need to have? What is the output (in terms of amperage/voltage/etc.) out of the e-manage and what does the coil need?

Anyone?

I'm still not sure why you wouldn't be able to run the signal through a CD Box and get plenty of voltage and control timing with the E-Manage. All the Ignition should need is a reference signal from the E-Manage on when to fire.

For a detailed description for who was asking about the cam magnet. download the tech manual from Dino's signature, there's a descritption of what the ECU sees from both the crank and cam triggers and how timing it based on the wave paterms from both.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus

What exactly is a CD box?

CD= Capacitive Discharge....this is the design of all MSD ignition boxes.

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header/evo exhaust - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, SFMU/return line, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

The e-manage sends out a +5vdc or +12vdc signal depending on how you set the jumpers inside the unit.