About a month ago when I was trying to get my car back on the road, I broke my old IAT sensor - the therads broke off in the manifold and the rest of the sensor was junk. Good thing I had a spare upper intake manifold around, because I couldn't get those threads out for the life of me.



So, I brought the disgruntled manifold and the GM IAT sensor to my local machine shop and they drilled and tapped my "old" manifold to fit the larger GM sensor. I like how it turned out. Looks totally stock!



There's the board. It's been broken for the past few weeks, so I found the time to debug it and discovered that I was powering the board along with 4 injectors off of the stimulator board, which has 2 tiny PCB traces for +12 and ground. If I designed it, I would have made it more like the flyback board with a power plane and a ground plane on oppisite sides of the PCB. Oh well. I fried one of the cheesy power traces while trying to pull enough current to drive 4 crappy old fuel injectors. Fixed. I'm now running the 022e4 code, I will start off with fuel only, then I will hook up the ignition system. I have no idea how stable this code is, it's a new release. Hell, I have no idea if this entire setup will work at all. I've never done this before. However, everything seems to work as it should on the stimulator, but we'll see how it works in the real world. Hopefully I'll get it done over the long weekend. Anyone have a VE map I can start off with? I have stock cams and will be using 780 cc/min injectors.

i would build a flyback board if your going to be running low imp. injectors.

nice, I have an xtra plentium that I will be doing the same too. I already paid MrSlick for my MS. I have collected up all the sensors/ignition parts and the new injectors. More or less just waiting on the MS unit. Good job on that. These are the fuel injectors I got. Although when I tested the ohm load I came up with the same as my stockers.

Part Number 3105
Static Flow Rate (GAS): 86 lb/hr @ 43.5PSI (300kPa) = 903cc/min, 10.88g/s
Static Flow Rate (Test Solvent): 83 lb/hr @ 43.5PSI (300kPa)
Coil Resistance: 2.35 Ohms / Low Impedance / Low-Z (ECM driver modifications required)

Originally posted by RxR_Eclipse
nice, I have an xtra plentium that I will be doing the same too. I already paid MrSlick for my MS. I have collected up all the sensors/ignition parts and the new injectors. More or less just waiting on the MS unit. Good job on that.

Is that a Plentium 4? :P

I'm in your boat too. My harness and sensors should be in this week and I'm just waiting on Lee to get my MSnS here. (This week, right Lee?) ;)

do you just need a stock injector harness

i am getting the accessories for a ms unit myself and i already have a spare stock injector harness
so that is something that i dont need to look for

Originally posted by RxR_Eclipse
nice, I have an xtra plentium that I will be doing the same too. I already paid MrSlick for my MS. I have collected up all the sensors/ignition parts and the new injectors. More or less just waiting on the MS unit. Good job on that. These are the fuel injectors I got. Although when I tested the ohm load I came up with the same as my stockers. Part Number 3105 Static Flow Rate (GAS): 86 lb/hr @ 43.5PSI (300kPa) = 903cc/min, 10.88g/s Static Flow Rate (Test Solvent): 83 lb/hr @ 43.5PSI (300kPa) Coil Resistance: 2.35 Ohms / Low Impedance / Low-Z (ECM driver modifications required)

I'm in a similar boat, I have paid Mr. Slick (28th of january) and am awaiting my unit. I have not purchased any sensors or anything, and will be running on my (mostly) stock car for testing before I install a turbo (which I am ordering today). Do you know of any lst of other hardware we need to run fuel + ignition, or a link to another post that mentions them? Mr. Slick said he was backordered a bit when I ordered, hopefully he's caught up soon :P.

Good stuff...I sold my 8 injector setup, and just paid Lee for the MS'n spark setup! This is going to be fun..The plan is to max out the S16g on pump gas :evilgrin

One more thing, where are you guys getting your injectors from?? I found "racetronix.com" where they had the Delphi 780's for like 57 bucks each... http://www.racetronix.com/17113742FM.html

Originally posted by XtremeRS
I found "racetronix.com" where they had the Delphi 780's for like 57 bucks each... http://www.racetronix.com/17113742FM.html

Those are low impedance injectors. Did you order the flyback board also?

I'm wondering this too, I just remeasured mine and came up with 2.4 vs the stocker @11.8. Slick will I need anything xtra to run these?

States on the MS site that the flyback board is only needed if your using more than 4 injectors with restitance >2.4

From what I know, Lee runs NO flyback board with the low impedance injectors, and his has been doing just fine. BUT it would prob be best to use the flyback board, just for peace of mind I suppose..

So is that link I posted, where you guys got your injectors? Or where did you get them?

The flyback board is only necessary if you're using very low impedence injectors. The ones that Lee is using are around 4 Ohms. Anything less than that you'd probably want to use the flyback board.

I got mine here http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33554&item=7953634521&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW But the place that you found them is a better deal

I like the megasquirt system, everyone has been getting it. I want it also, but am still learning about it first. Someone should do a post on everything that is needed for a complete set so everyone can understand what to get. Glad to see alot of people helping out and reaching higher limits with the 420A.

Originally posted by freddy_00_69
I like the megasquirt system, everyone has been getting it. I want it also, but am still learning about it first. Someone should do a post on everything that is needed for a complete set so everyone can understand what to get. Glad to see alot of people helping out and reaching higher limits with the 420A.

Amen to that brother it took me 3 days to figure out ms stood for megasquirt. That is to add that I didnt wanna look like the BANME! fool I am. Who knew 420a's would be so much different then the old 4g63. Ahh the N double oo and b word auto icons ban me very nice lol.

Took me about a day and a half, maybe 50% of the time was spent fixing other things. After about 4 hours of work I was about 1/3 of the way done last night when I went to UMass Amherst for a party. I got back this morning, worked most of the day, and finished up around 9:30 tonight. I moved my ECU to the battery tray and made a little bracket for it. The actual MS wiring and other hardware went pretty smoothly. If I was just doing a MS installation (remove intake manifold, change injectors, route the wiring harness, clean up) it would probably take 4-6 hours.

I was suprised that the car started right up the first time. It idles very rich right now. I took it for a drive, stayed out of boost, and I made it around town with no problems. Not bad for a VE table that I pulled out of my ass. I don't think I ever saw the AFR any leaner than 13:1 ;) At this point, it's all software. Lee tells me that the 022e4 code has some bugs in it, so I'm probably going to load an older revision and try that out.

Originally posted by ner947
Took me about a day and a half, maybe 50% of the time was spent fixing other things. After about 4 hours of work I was about 1/3 of the way done last night when I went to UMass Amherst for a party. I got back this morning, worked most of the day, and finished up around 9:30 tonight. I moved my ECU to the battery tray and made a little bracket for it. The actual MS wiring and other hardware went pretty smoothly. If I was just doing a MS installation (remove intake manifold, change injectors, route the wiring harness, clean up) it would probably take 4-6 hours. I was suprised that the car started right up the first time. It idles very rich right now. I took it for a drive, stayed out of boost, and I made it around town with no problems. Not bad for a VE table that I pulled out of my ass. I don't think I ever saw the AFR any leaner than 13:1 ;) At this point, it's all software. Lee tells me that the 022e4 code has some bugs in it, so I'm probably going to load an older revision and try that out.

Awsome! Did you copy Lee's tables to get you started since he runs the same size injectors? Man, I can't wait to get mine up and running..so much fun :) I am planning on using my AEM UEGO gauge's 0-5v output to use as a WB sensor input to the MS too..that will be nice. You can put in A/F ratio numbers in the tables for boost pressure right? So you dont have to use pulsewidth correction numbers, but target A/F numbers??

Nah... For a VE table I looked at my old 034EFI map, took the table, put it into Excel. I called the highest number "100" and the lowest number "25". I then resized the table to get it to 12x12 and threw it into the VE table in the MS. "100 and "25" for VE numbers I just kind of picked out of the air. The scary thing was that after I got out of idle and started cruising around the EGO correction or "fuel trim" was actually less than +/- 20, so it actually of worked for a base map to get me started.

great job ner
i will be ordering soon when lee gets caught up, if that ever happens :)

As pointed out already I've ben running the Delphi 780cc injectors just fine now for over 6 months without using the flyback board.

I got mine from that ebay stored linked to above.

It's entirely up to ech person if they want to run the flyback board or not, it does offer a little extra safety over the standard MS circuit.

As far as being backed up on orders goes... I'm hoping to get fully caught up within the next 2 weeks. Right now I'm waiting on some parts to come in. ;)

For anyone that needs a 780cc basemap that i'm running right nowyou can find everything you need at the following link:

http://www.2gnt.com/www/slick/files/ms.zip

Lee.

Originally posted by MrSlick
As pointed out already I've ben running the Delphi 780cc injectors just fine now for over 6 months without using the flyback board. I got mine from that ebay stored linked to above. It's entirely up to ech person if they want to run the flyback board or not, it does offer a little extra safety over the standard MS circuit. As far as being backed up on orders goes... I'm hoping to get fully caught up within the next 2 weeks. Right now I'm waiting on some parts to come in. ;) For anyone that needs a 780cc basemap that i'm running right nowyou can find everything you need at the following link: http://www.2gnt.com/www/slick/files/ms.zip Lee.

Hey Lee, the link you are talking about for the injectors, is that the one that I posted?? If so, is this a reputable place? Just never heard of them..

EDIT: nevermind..i'm out of it :) The one I posted are a bit cheaper, but not sure about the dealer hehe.. The ones you got, do those fit the stock rail/manifold like stock? I can use the stock injector harness also??

Originally posted by XtremeRS

Originally posted by MrSlick As pointed out already I've ben running the Delphi 780cc injectors just fine now for over 6 months without using the flyback board. I got mine from that ebay stored linked to above. It's entirely up to ech person if they want to run the flyback board or not, it does offer a little extra safety over the standard MS circuit. As far as being backed up on orders goes... I'm hoping to get fully caught up within the next 2 weeks. Right now I'm waiting on some parts to come in. ;) For anyone that needs a 780cc basemap that i'm running right nowyou can find everything you need at the following link: http://www.2gnt.com/www/slick/files/ms.zip Lee.

Hey Lee, the link you are talking about for the injectors, is that the one that I posted?? If so, is this a reputable place? Just never heard of them.. EDIT: nevermind..i'm out of it :) The one I posted are a bit cheaper, but not sure about the dealer hehe.. The ones you got, do those fit the stock rail/manifold like stock? I can use the stock injector harness also??

The ebay injectors were the ones I was talking about. ;)

They are 4G63 injectors, so they are the same as 450's. You have to use the 420A o-rings, and not the ones that come with the Delphi's.

They will fit, just a little tight. I put mine into the rail first, then put them into the intake. Easier to do with the upper intake off for sure.

etx got the same ones... he didn't believe they would fit. ;)

Lee.

I'm using 880 cc/min low imp injectors with out the flyback board as well. No problems yet, I've done quite a bit of driving a loging after installing my wideband last week, but I still need to tune my VE map. The MSNS-E code has a bug and I get a rpm blip everyone once and a while. Nate, you seeing this? Watch your RPM's at idle in Megatune and see if it jumps way up, or if your peak on the MT Tach is pegged. I'll be working on the MS tonight, but I don't think I'll be able to get any tuning done cause It's snowing again. :(

I'm using the 022d1 code and VE table that Lee posted. I haven't seen any RPM blips yet, but I'm using the tach signal generated by my MSD DIS-2, which is still doing ignition based on the stock ECU. There are no current limiting resistors between the MSD and the MS, it's just a direct connection.

For the time being, I have resistors connected to my stock intake and coolant temp sensors for now, in order to keep the stock ECU semi-happy. The coolant temp is set at 1.3k I think, which is about 180 degrees according to my old sensor when I stuck it in a cup of hot water. The stock IAT sensor has a 10k resistor on it, which is about 65-70 degrees I believe.

Hey derek, are you using the stock crank angle sensor signal? I'm assuming there is a bug in the decoding? When I get mine up and installed, is there a certain version I should look for?

Originally posted by XtremeRS
Hey derek, are you using the stock crank angle sensor signal? I'm assuming there is a bug in the decoding? When I get mine up and installed, is there a certain version I should look for?

There is no bug int he decoding. I know cause I made it work right. :)

There is a bug in some of the latest alpha software but its not on the crank decoder side of things.... 021x2 is stable, I wouldn't recommend any later than that right now.
Derek is using way later than that :)

Lee.

Ah I see. Will you be loading that version in when you build it, or is that something I will need to take care of?

Originally posted by XtremeRS
Ah I see. Will you be loading that version in when you build it, or is that something I will need to take care of?

It will have that version. ;)

Originally posted by MrSlick

Originally posted by XtremeRS Ah I see. Will you be loading that version in when you build it, or is that something I will need to take care of?

It will have that version. ;)

Yeah, I updated to 022h last night and it fixed it. Older versions work fine, I'm sure Lee will only be sending out units with well tested code, I'm not driving the car so I've been keeping tabs on the newest stuff they are implementing. Hopefully we get a dry day so I can start tuning my VE maps.

Also, I had a scare last night. I was tweaking my VE map at idle, wront the veBins to the MS while it was running from my laptop with a USB->Serial cable. It wiped the entire memory (settings, not the flashed code) from the MS! So I just took it back inside and wrote my last settings to it. So if anyone is using a usb->serial adapter be aware of that. Perhaps best to use an old shitty laptop with a 12v cig adapter and a true serial port. ;)

Excellent...One more question.. I'm doing like what NER is doing, by taking out the stock IAT and putting the GM one in it's place..Does the stock ECU need the IAT sensor at all? It will prob need the coolant temp though, as it has an effect on idle speed when cold, right?

I thought He mentioned that he put resistors on both of those.

I still have both stock and Gm sensors.
But you could just use resistors for the stock computer as ner did. ;)

Just use the right resistance for . ;)

Originally posted by XtremeRS
Excellent...One more question.. I'm doing like what NER is doing, by taking out the stock IAT and putting the GM one in it's place..Does the stock ECU need the IAT sensor at all? It will prob need the coolant temp though, as it has an effect on idle speed when cold, right?

My stock ECU is still controlling my IAC, and I haven't noticed anything weird with my idle at all.

I'd imagine that if the IAT sensor had a very high or very low impedence (completely disconnected or shorter) the stock ECU would fall back onto a "safe" spark table that doesn't produce any power at all, that's why I connected a resistor to it to make it think that it's "room tempature" so that the spark table remains "advanced". I haven't tested this theory yet, I can't find my OBD2 datalogger, so at the moment I have no idea what my spark advance looks like. Then again, maybe the ECU tweaks out if the coolant or intake tempature values don't change at all.

Yeah, I've had weird problems with my USB-RS232 converter as well. It can talk to the MS, I can even upload new code to it using the converter. However, if I try to upload a new MSQ or something it will not work. I agree that using a real serial port is much better than a converter.

Well I guess my main concern was with the coolant temp, since the Stock ecu uses that signal for fast idle speed when the motor is cold...The intake temp I don't really care about, since i'll be using the MS for spark control..

That sucks about the USB-serial adaptor...My laptop is only like 8 months old, but the adapter worked perfectly on the 034...wierd. I use the Belkin adapter...which one do you use?

Originally posted by XtremeRS
Well I guess my main concern was with the coolant temp, since the Stock ecu uses that signal for fast idle speed when the motor is cold...The intake temp I don't really care about, since i'll be using the MS for spark control.. That sucks about the USB-serial adaptor...My laptop is only like 8 months old, but the adapter worked perfectly on the 034...wierd. I use the Belkin adapter...which one do you use?

It's a prolific, one of the more widely used chipsets. It worked fine on the 034, and my Dis2, but I can't write MSQ files and like I said rarely it fubars the whole config.

As far as sensors, I taped both IAT CLT in and left the stock ones. The IAT is in the EGR hole, and the CLT is in the thermostat body. Eventually I'll probably pull the PS and that whole wiring harness over there and the stock ecu all togeather. But until I have the bugs worked out I'm not too worried about it.

Hopefully it's nice this weekend so I can tune my ve maps damnit.

Nope, just checked the weather. It's all shit for the next 10 days. :(

Originally posted by etx
...Eventually I'll probably pull the PS and that whole wiring harness over there and the stock ecu all togeather...

Dam straight! I can't wait to pull out my ECU and stock wiring harness too. I'm sick and tired of that shit in my engine bay.

I hope you have alternate ways to control the IAC, alternator voltage regulation, and shit like that if you plan on removing the stock ECU all together.

Well, duh ;)

The IAC thing is coming along. I believe the MS has code for it, but I don't think a hardware interface exsists quite yet.

For voltage regulation, I doubt that can be that hard to code. What kind of signal does the stock ECU send to the alternator through that 2 pin connector? Does it simply turn the alternator "on and off" to maintain X volts?

Don't even have to code it... There is a way to install a standalone regulator to handle it for you. Armond did it, i just can't find the writeup and he can't remember how.

I think i got it figured out, really simple actually but i need to view a wiring schematic. Anyone have one i can see online, i am in college station texas and dont have my mitchell on demand with me.


Dino any help here

EDIT: Ok the alt in our cars is a 3 wire which is not to be confused with GM style 3 wire which are very different. one wire is the Alt output, the large pos cable that goes to the battery. the plug on the side which goes to the regulator is 2 wires. one wire goes to the ASD relay as a voltage sensing wire. the second wire is to the ECU which sends a ground to complete the field coil in the regulator to complete the circuit. the Regulaor should do all the switching on and off of the voltage output. SO all that we should need to do is ground the wire going to the ecu and let the regulator do it s job. once the ECU is powered on the wire from the ECU shoulds have a constant ground.

Now 3 wire gm alternators have one wire as a voltage sensing wire and the other is for an idiot light.

Terry

Originally posted by ner947

Originally posted by etx ...Eventually I'll probably pull the PS and that whole wiring harness over there and the stock ecu all togeather...

Dam straight! I can't wait to pull out my ECU and stock wiring harness too. I'm sick and tired of that shit in my engine bay.

Has any of you guys actually moved the ECU in the cabin? I've done it, it's quite hard. And the hardest part is that rubber cover, for you to relocate the ECU inside you have to make everything go through in there. But I had to do it on my rebuild so the motor wasn't mounted otherwhise only God knows how. There is only one issue that I haven't been able to conquer and it's that white harness, there are two of them if you were to take off the cover under the ECU. If any one here know what the blue and green plastic "thingy" looks like inside please let me know! I'm assuming that has something to do when the car was assembled in the factory to make certain sensors and wiring easier to assemble while the car is on the assembly line. I don't know, will someone shed some light? Thanks in advance to all of you and congratulations on getting your car up and running w/ MS.

The megasquirt is some exciting stuff but the manual is so thick! Got a lot of reading to do.

I saw this thread at MSEFI.com:

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=6412

and decided to give it a try.

First I had to rework the MS board so that it would be compadible with the crank angle sensor. I tapped the blue/white wire at the ECU, selected the Neon/420A thing in MegaTune, and it started right up. I went for a drive with the stock ECU still doing ignition to make sure that it was reading the crank sensor correctly and I noticed that the throttle response seemed a bit more "crisp", I'm not quite sure how to describe it.

So I did the thing with the LED's and the resistors and hooked it up to the MSD like it says in the thread. It actually started right up! I'm using the spark advance table that was in Lee's code that he posted on the main site. I went for a drive and it seemed like there was no power, almost like it was misfiring badly if I tried to get close to atmospheric pressure. EGT's were very low and AFR's indicated very lean when this happened so I'm pretty sure it was misfiring. I put it back to stock ignition through the MSD for now. I'll mess with it some more when I have access to a laptop and some time, but I'm suprised that it actually worked.

What I really need is one of those 6G72 ignition modules, I just don't really trust the MSD DIS-2.

Good job!

How did you have the MSD setup?
Although I don't trust the thing, it should still be possible to use it...

More crisp huh? Must be my decoder work... :)

Anyway, while a 6G72 module would work, a 4G63 module is what you want... ;)

Lee.

Well, these are the settings I tried:

Trigger angle - 69 degrees
Trigger angle addition - 0 degrees
Crank timing - trigger return
Hold ignition - 0 degrees
Spark output inverted
Fixed angle - -10
Trim angle - 0 degrees

Then for dwell control I tried it with Fixed duty and a spark output duty cycle of minimal for HEI4. I don't really understand what dwell is, so I just left these settings alone. Maybe I have to change the spark output duty cycle for it to work?

Dwell is if I recall shop class right pretty much like retarding the timing. Something about distributor positioning thats if I recall right. I know somewhere floating around in the garage I have a dwell meter that you used on old distributor ignitions not sure how it applys to a 420a though.

I always remembered Dwell being the time it takes for the coil to charge, then actually fire. The time it takes for when the signal is sent, to the time the coil actually fires. I believe as rpm increases, dwell increases also. Either the ECU or an ignition control module usually takes this in to account when referring to timing advance and retard..I could be way off here though haha..