Car wants to idle bad at start, but within a few minutes it runs fine, WTF?

If I try to drive it when its acting up at first, it cuts out and such. Only happens when car has set for a few hrs too.

New plugs (NGK) & wires (MSD) & Coolant Temp Sensor.

Map Sensor? Fuel Pump? -I do hear it prime. No CEL's.

One of these three:

1) Search
2) search
3) SEARCH

coil pack?

Here, click me!--Ill help you.

All too quick to ignore and point to a button, rather than answer a question. I have searched - with no answer, ergo the new thread.

I registered with the community with ambitions of finding an expert opinion or equivalent on my situation from someone who has time vested in their car. No need in re-inventing the wheel.

I have a MSD coilpack as well, and swapped back with the stock pack with no alteration in the symptoms.

You mentioned that you replaced a coolant temp sensor. Which one did you replace? There are two in the water neck, one feeds the dash gauge and the other feeds the ECU.

Also, I would check the harnesses on your cam and crank sensors just to be sure.

Originally posted by damned2GNT
All too quick to ignore and point to a button, rather than answer a question. I have searched - with no answer, ergo the new thread. I registered with the community with ambitions of finding an expert opinion or equivalent on my situation from someone who has time vested in their car. No need in re-inventing the wheel. I have a MSD coilpack as well, and swapped back with the stock pack with no alteration in the symptoms.

I like your style, sir. We'll deal with your choice of screen name at a later date and time.

As for your issue, I'm going to ask if you are certain you replaced the correct CLT sensor. I'm sure you're aware that one sensor is for the instrument cluster while the other is actually providing data to the ECU. Given the way your symptoms tie in with warm up, I would still suspect the CLT, however you seem to have already covered that base, so this is merely for confirmation.

How old is your front O2 sensor?

Have you tried a power balance test on the engine while symptoms occur? This could at least tell you which cylinder is experiencing the issues.

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by damned2GNT All too quick to ignore and point to a button, rather than answer a question. I have searched - with no answer, ergo the new thread. I registered with the community with ambitions of finding an expert opinion or equivalent on my situation from someone who has time vested in their car. No need in re-inventing the wheel. I have a MSD coilpack as well, and swapped back with the stock pack with no alteration in the symptoms.

I like your style, sir. We'll deal with your choice of screen name at a later date and time. As for your issue, I'm going to ask if you are certain you replaced the correct CLT sensor. I'm sure you're aware that one sensor is for the instrument cluster while the other is actually providing data to the ECU. Given the way your symptoms tie in with warm up, I would still suspect the CLT, however you seem to have already covered that base, so this is merely for confirmation. How old is your front O2 sensor? Have you tried a power balance test on the engine while symptoms occur? This could at least tell you which cylinder is experiencing the issues.

DR1665, I appreciate your time in aiding the diagnosis of my current situation. Somehow I knew someone like you was out there lurking about the forums.

The CLT sensor I replaced was the one with a clip and two prongs, the upper sensor. The bottom has a different type of clip that basically slides on it appears. Would the sensor for the gagues still have any effect on the idle?

The front O2 Sensor is a new Bosch sensor, maybe 3 months old. Unfavorable symptoms occured before the O2 replacement - the Bosch was of no help either. Unfortunately, I now read that perhaps a Walker O2 sensor would be a better choice. Should I ditch the Bosch O2 sensor? Again, no CEL's thrown.

I have not tried a power balance test. I will have to look in more detail how to accomplish that, then I can reply with those results.

Sadly, I have been forced to replace other sensors in the past (and clips) including the Crank sensor and Cam sensor. The clips are secure, I double checked them today.

Originally posted by damned2GNT
DR1665, I appreciate your time in aiding the diagnosis of my current situation. Somehow I knew someone like you was out there lurking about the forums.

Thank you, but I assure you, I am simply a product of my environment, that being this community. As much help as I might seem to be, I am also known by many as "Captain Half-Ass." :P

Originally posted by damned2GNT
The CLT sensor I replaced was the one with a clip and two prongs, the upper sensor. The bottom has a different type of clip that basically slides on it appears. Would the sensor for the gagues still have any effect on the idle?

You replaced the correct sensor. The other one does nothing for fuel trims as far as I know, so the only advice I might have would be to test the new sensor. Stranger things have happened, you know...

Originally posted by damned2GNT
DR1665, I appreciate your time in aiding the diagnosis of my current situation. Somehow I knew someone like you was out there lurking about the forums. The CLT sensor I replaced was the one with a clip and two prongs, the upper sensor. The bottom has a different type of clip that basically slides on it appears. Would the sensor for the gagues still have any effect on the idle? The front O2 Sensor is a new Bosch sensor, maybe 3 months old. Unfavorable symptoms occured before the O2 replacement - the Bosch was of no help either. Unfortunately, I now read that perhaps a Walker O2 sensor would be a better choice. Should I ditch the Bosch O2 sensor?

Interesting. Hmmm... As far as I know, there is really no difference, but I could be wrong. Hate to say it, but searching the forums for both "Walker O2 sensor" and "Bosch O2 sensor" might tell if anyone had issues with either. I do recall seeing discussion on generic sensors, but I do not remember if anyone had issues with either of those brands. I'd want to be sure before installing a new, $150+ sensor that I could not return after installation.

EDIT:
If the quoted terms above give no results, trying just the manufacturer names might do better. The search can be picky from time to time.

Originally posted by damned2GNT
I have not tried a power balance test. I will have to look in more detail how to accomplish that, then I can reply with those results.

Basically, you pull spark plug wires while the engine is running and symptoms occur to see which cylinder might be having spark/fuel issues. If the engine bogs, it's not that cylinder. That's pretty much it as far as I know. I only recently learned this test had a name.

Originally posted by damned2GNT
Sadly, I have been forced to replace other sensors in the past (and clips) including the Crank sensor and Cam sensor. The clips are secure, I double checked them today.

Typically, when the ECU loses either CAS or CMP signal, it results in the engine shutting down, since it the ECU is unable to determine piston position in relation to valvetrain events. Furthermore, these symptoms usually occur during cornering or prevent the car from starting again in any capacity, in my experience.

I don't know what effect engine temperature would have on fuel delivery, but I guess an injector might be sticking while cold or vice versa. This gremlin seems like it could be one of "those" variety.

I wish you the best of luck. You present yourself as an intelligent fellow who has done some research on this issue prior to posting your question, so I hope we can figure this one out.

get rid of the bosch and go get a nice OEM o2 sensor.

Id suggest calling fenton dodge, tell them your from the eclipse web board to get the discount and tell them you need the mopar O2 sensor for a 4 cyl dodge avenger (non-turbo) (for some reason they have a turbo avenger listed in their system even though one was never mass produced) should be like 80 bucks

Bosch has been known to crap out in as little as 2-3 months.

the design of the vents on the inlet of the sensor is such that it easily clogs with carbon,etc...

Originally posted by mcgyvr
get rid of the bosch and go get a nice OEM o2 sensor. Id suggest calling fenton dodge, tell them your from the eclipse web board to get the discount and tell them you need the mopar O2 sensor for a 4 cyl dodge avenger (non-turbo) (for some reason they have a turbo avenger listed in their system even though one was never mass produced) should be like 80 bucks Bosch has been known to crap out in as little as 2-3 months. the design of the vents on the inlet of the sensor is such that it easily clogs with carbon,etc...

I just replaced a 3 year old bosh unit with a new one 2 months ago. I've never had an issue with them before so I wouldn't point my finger in that direction just yet.

As Brian said, do the power balance test. At idle is the car 'missing' or is it idling good? If it misses, while the car is running pull the first sparkplug wire of the plug and just lift it above the plug. If you pull it off and is starts to miss and die plug it back in and check the next. Your pretty much looking for the one cyl that isn't firing properly so when you pull the wire and the motor doesn't change it's idle that cyl isn't firing properly.

I would pull the plugs and make sure they're gapped properly. N/A should be br67e-11 I believe and they're pre-gapped at .042-.045

MY car has ran like total crap just because of the spark plug gap.

Have you checked for vacuum leaks? Just a thought.