Ok, before I get started, I realize that by posting about these, there's a possibility of it hurting what little reputation I have, but I'm really interested in hearing what some of you have to say about this. I have ALWAYS been very skeptical of these, and I've been reading PLENTY on the subject over the past few days, including that "the fan goes so slow that it actually blocks off air to the intake, hurting performance" etc. etc., but I'd like to get some good input, because I honestly think this could be a decent SMALL mod for those who can't afford the cost, or downtime of a turbo setup. In no way AT ALL am I saying these are superior, or even a replacement for a turbo setup by any means.

Now, I'm not talking about the little hot-tub-bubble-blower motors that they sell on eBay for $80 and call it an "electric turbo", or the electric leaf-blower motors. However, before I get started I'd like for everyone reading to watch the following video on Streetfire.net -

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=AB544E3B-5DFF-416D-9CFD-A1AD23CA9564&p=0

After you've watched the video, please continue, if you are continuing to read without watching the video, It would really make more sense to you if you did.

Ok, so, as you can see from the video, with BOTH pulls on the civic and the truck, just the small leaf-blower adds a small amount of horsepower. Similar tests HAVE been done, with similar results. If you can agree and accept that on that video, a gain was proven by putting just a leaf-blower to the intake, then read on.

Okay, now that we're on the same page, I have another video for you to watch. This is by e-Ram, a company that makes electric superchargers with models that put out 1psi, and another that puts out 1.7psi (still small potatoes, but they also have dyno-graphs, and G-Tech readouts to back it up, but, with me being a skeptic, they could be fake. I'm not accusing them of being fake, but this IS the internet) Now, feel free to view any of the videos on the e-ram site, but the one I'm wanting you to focus on is the one comparing the leaf-blower and the e-Ram blowing up a trashbag. The video I'm talking about is the second video from the top. I'm sorry I couldn't post a direct link, so here's a link to the demo-vids:

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/demovideos.shtml

(P.S. this test was done with only the 1psi model)

Now, "What does blowing up a god-damned trash bag have ANYTHING to do with engine efficiency and power, you filthy ricer?" you might be asking yourself. Absolutley nothing. I was merely wanting to show how much more air the 1psi e-ram moved, as opposed to the leafblower. Now, go back to the first video I posted and look at what just the leafblower did for the Honda and the truck. I'm not finished though.

So I was thinking to myself, "$600+ for 1.7 measly psi, that's not that great of a deal." So I searched around for quite a while looking to see if anyone had higher "boost" models. Finally, I found a company in Europe called E.T.S. that has a model for around the same price as the 1.7psi e-ram, that's making nearly 3psi. Keep in mind that that's only 2 less psi than most stage 1 turbo kits for our cars at nearly 1/4 of the price. However I also realize there's no room for advancement with an electric fan, as opposed to a turbo system. I've assembled a small pro and con list for both, if you have any other's to add, please feel free:

Electric fan, Pros:
1. 1 Hour down-time at most
2. No need for extra fuel control (or so claimed, knowledgeable input?)
3. Much lower price
4. Nanoseconds of lag (virtually none)

Cons:
1. VERY limited boost
2. Absolutely no way to modify to make more boost
3. I've yet to read anything about durability. A fan blade being sucked into the intake doesn't sound like somthing anyone wants.

Turbo Setup, Pros:
1. As much power as you can afford to make
2. Nearly unlimited options for modding
3. It's a proven method of efficient power
4. Excuse my ricey comment but FMIC's and BOV's are just fucking cool ;)

Cons:
1. Fairly expensive
2. Depending on skill/luck, there is an amount of downtime
3. Requires more experience to tune/install/etc...

Now, I know there are more pro's and con's for both, but it's late, and, quite frankly, I'm tired. I just listed off the first couple that came to my head.

I would like to know if you think this would be somthing worth-while to do, for those of us with limited budgets, hectic schedules, and limited tuning/installation experience. Again, I'm not trying to in ANY WAY say that this is a superior method of forced induction, because we all know that it isn't even close, but I honestly would like to try one just to see. I'm looking for VALID reasons why I should, or should not buy and test one of these products. Again, it's 2.9 psi, for around $600, and a 20 minute installation to have you back out on the road, with a few more dyno-tested-and-proven wheel horsepower.

Please, I would really appreciate intelligent responses. I've taken the time to research the topic, and get to know as much as I can about them, so please respect that by giving me some good intelligent replies. Sorry for the long post.

-Chris

P.S. I forgot to add that these are hooked up to the throttle position sensor and only activate while under WOT. I think that this mod, if it works as described, would be worth the money, considering the fact that other mods (including the price of installation, of course) can cost around the same, or more and yield less gains.

No, no, no. It is a scam. Thats what you're gonna hear from everyone here. Or you'll get the sarcastic posts saying yea its great buy it.

Look, someone wrote gullible on the ceiling.

Yeah, I just read the post entitled "Cheap power for N/T's" or some shit like that with "Lee Walker" selling turvo's or something to that effect(search for "electric supercharger"). And saw the bashing that guy got. And as I said, I'm expecting to get some jeering, but I'm honestly curious as to why it absolutley WOULD NOT work. It seems to me, in theory, that the forcing of the 3psi, into the air intake, would give you a small performance gain. My question is, why wouldn't it give you any gain whatsoever?

Unlike the afforementioned person, I'm not trying to sell these, or say they do anything real, but that streetfire video really got me thinking that they might be semi-useful. All I'm looking for is a real, scientific reason that these products are 100% useless junk.

-Chris

P.S. I'm not THAT gullible, at least I didn't buy one first ;)

::edit:: Wow, in the time it took to post this, I already got made fun of twice! DJTrickee, what is your reason for implying that it wouldn't work? I've always liked your car, btw.

Originally posted by HardaTaq
::edit:: Wow, in the time it took to post this, I already got made fun of twice! DJTrickee, what is your reason for implying that it wouldn't work? I've always liked your car, btw.

Im too lazy and way to Runk to type it out. If you can't figure it out through common sense and a little searching then by all means ante' up and buy one.




Please.


Ok. forget that. Dont buy one. You know what would kick ass though. Buy this:
http://aircompressorsdirect.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=45

and this:
http://www.autosportcatalog.com/index.cfm/fa/p/pid/1928/sc/2737

Mount them in your trunk, plumb it to your intake and you should be making some wicked forced induction powa!!

Same price but holy shit buttman!! 135 psi powa!!

Originally posted by HardaTaq
Yeah, I just read the post entitled "Cheap power for N/T's" or some shit like that with "Lee Walker" selling turvo's or something to that effect(search for "electric supercharger"). And saw the bashing that guy got. And as I said, I'm expecting to get some jeering, but I'm honestly curious as to why it absolutley WOULD NOT work. It seems to me, in theory, that the forcing of the 3psi, into the air intake, would give you a small performance gain. My question is, why wouldn't it give you any gain whatsoever? Unlike the afforementioned person, I'm not trying to sell these, or say they do anything real, but that streetfire video really got me thinking that they might be semi-useful. All I'm looking for is a real, scientific reason that these products are 100% useless junk. -Chris P.S. I'm not THAT gullible, at least I didn't buy one first ;) ::edit:: Wow, in the time it took to post this, I already got made fun of twice! DJTrickee, what is your reason for implying that it wouldn't work? I've always liked your car, btw.

I honestly don't beleive it actually can push 3psi, or even 1psi. I have seen a video where they took a gaspowered leaf blower and stuck it to the intake and that made some power on the dyno but you deffinatly won't get that much airflow from a little 12volt fan... its just not going to happen. thats why you only see belt driven and exhaust driven contraptions that actually make power...

Originally posted by CarbonFiberRST
I honestly don't beleive it actually can push 3psi, or even 1psi. I have seen a video where they took a gaspowered leaf blower and stuck it to the intake and that made some power on the dyno but you deffinatly won't get that much airflow from a little 12volt fan... its just not going to happen. thats why you only see belt driven and exhaust driven contraptions that actually make power...

that has got to be the most ignorant statement ever. you seriously think electric motors cannot make serious power? why do you think mitsu has a prototype EVO IX driven ENTIRELY by electric motors inside of each wheel. it's a completely different world of AWD. it's like having an engine for EACH wheel. i guess some of the older generation with an indaquate understanding of electronics can't grasp the concept of electric motors and do not fully understand their potential. 12v means nothing. that's nothing more than the voltage pontential. it has nothing to do with the kinda power output you can get from a 12v source.

i think this board is seriously starting to show its age. or lack of intelligence anyways. it wouldn't be worth the time explaining the physics involved to you guys.

Originally posted by MCubed45
it wouldn't be worth the time explaining the physics involved to you guys.

Lol. an electric motor getting its power from an alternator spun by belts from an internal combustion engine... hmmmmmm. yea thats free energy right there.

Go away.

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by MCubed45

Lol. an electric motor getting its power from an alternator spun by belts from a combustion engine... hmmmmmm. yea thats free energy right there. Go away.

right because taking energy from the exhaust stream or driven by the crank is free. if you had any understanding of the physics involved you'd know that electric motors are WAY more efficient than a 4-stroke engine, more reliable, and cheaper to build/maintain. the efficiency of a 4-stroke engine is well below 50%. come back after you've gone to college or at least taken some sort of introductory physics/basic electronics class.

talk about reinforcing the stereotype of an un-educated motor head.

Originally posted by MCubed45

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by MCubed45

Lol. an electric motor getting its power from an alternator spun by belts from a combustion engine... hmmmmmm. yea thats free energy right there. Go away.

right becaus taking energy from the exhaust stream or driven by the crank is free. if you had any understand of the physics involved you'd know that electric motors are WAY more efficient than a 4-stroke engine, more reliable, and cheaper to build/maintain. the efficiency of a 4-stroke engine is well below 50%. come back after you've gone to college or at least taken some sort of introductory physics/basic electronics class. talk about reinforcing the stereotype of an un-educated motor head.

Yup. Me and 99.9% of the turbo-charged and super-charged cars are un-educated motor heads. I have no problem being in that group. Call me a groupie if you want. At least we are right.

Here's an idea. Why don't you buy one of those Turvos and install it on your car. Then, are you paying attention, I will HOST AND PAY FOR a video-taped dyno session. Your car against mine. My mechanical forced induction VS. your electrical induction. Hell, I will even turn on my A/C and stereo and put my windows up and down while dyno'ing just to give you some "electrical competition"
lol.

Originally posted by djtrickee
Yup. Me and 99.9% of the turbo-charged and super-charged cars are un-educated motor heads. I have no problem being in that group. Call me a groupie if you want. At least we are right. Here's an idea. Why don't you buy one of those Turvos and install it on your car. Then, are you paying attention, I will HOST AND PAY FOR a video-taped dyno session. Your car against mine. My mechanical forced induction VS. your electrical induction. Hell, I will even turn on my A/C and stereo and put my windows up and down while dyno'ing just to give you some "electrical competition" lol.

you idiot. i thought that the original post was explained in a simple enough manner that even YOU would have understood that electric turbos are not made to outperform mechnically driven ones. their efficency range is EXTERMELY limited but it is also the range in which mechanical turbos are most INEFFICIENT. this is the reason behind the new trend towards hybrid turbos and hybrid engines.

your post just further emphasized your ignorance when it comes to electrical systems. it's ok to uneducated, just admit when you really don't know what you're talking about. you can't give any serious analysis on this type of project with your background. step down and go back to school.

*sigh*
it's like trying to eplain fuel injection to a carb guy...

Originally posted by MCubed45
it's ok to uneducated,

Sai waht? pott calleeng ketle blak...

EDIT:

Typical spineless coward backing out of a challenge. Figures as much. Damn even when I offer to pay.

gotta love the name calling though. At least he spelled idiot right, lol.

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by MCubed45 it's ok to uneducated,

Sai waht? pott calleeng ketle blak... EDIT: Typical spineless coward backing out of a challenge. Figures as much. Damn even when I offer to pay.

yes lets change the subject to minor typos. that way dj has something to contribute. but lets not talk about those dang electro thinga-majigies.

if you're gonna shell out the $5k or so it'd cost to ship your ass and car down here to hawaii then go right ahead. i doubt you have that kinda cash to throw around at your level of education though. but it's ok. lets keep talking about typos instead.

i'll explain things more simply to you:
a full dyno pull favors a mechanically driven turbo-charger. it would not prove anything.

Originally posted by MCubed45

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by MCubed45 it's ok to uneducated,

Sai waht? pott calleeng ketle blak... EDIT: Typical spineless coward backing out of a challenge. Figures as much. Damn even when I offer to pay.

yes lets change the subject to minor typos. that way dj has something to contribute. but lets not talk about those dang electro thinga-majigies. if you're gonna shell out the $5k or so it'd cost to ship your ass and carp down here to hawaii then go right ahead. i doubt you have that kinda cash to throw around at your level of education though. but it's ok. lets keep talking about typos instead. i'll explain things more simply to you: a full dyno pull favors a mechanically driven turbo-charger. it would not prove anything.

No one here is talking about the "future-potential" of electric motors, or electric hybrids... We are talking about lame ass electric turvos that have no volumetric efficiency. In 10 years when fuel-cell and hydrogen powered vehicles are common place then you can attack me all you want. But for you to take a stand for electric blower motors is absurd and, obviously even the OP tends to agree.


NEXT!!




(secret!- here's a fun game! see if you can find all my spelling and gramatical errors in this post and then post up your answers! I will let you know your score.)

Originally posted by MCubed45

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by MCubed45 it's ok to uneducated,

Sai waht? pott calleeng ketle blak... EDIT: Typical spineless coward backing out of a challenge. Figures as much. Damn even when I offer to pay.

yes lets change the subject to minor typos. that way dj has something to contribute. but lets not talk about those dang electro thinga-majigies. if you're gonna shell out the $5k or so it'd cost to ship your ass and car down here to hawaii then go right ahead. i doubt you have that kinda cash to throw around at your level of education though. but it's ok.
<\div>

again with the personal insults. Haha. Its ok. I can and will. But I would rather ship yours here. Since I live in Denver, at 1 mile high altitude that would favor my car even less. My job or income level has no consequence on this discussion. But if you want to go there, your 95 pos must have cost you a pretty penny huh?

Originally posted by djtrickee
again with the personal insults. Haha. Its ok. I can and will. But I would rather ship yours here. Since I live in Denver, at 1 mile high altitude that would favor my car even less. My job or income level has no consequence on this discussion. But if you want to go there, your 95 pos must have cost you a pretty penny huh?

yes it was cheap as hell. but then i'm a full-time college student only earning about $30k working part time right now.... i suppose i could've bought a more expensive car but i thought it would be more fun to have a project car. besides that, having your own apartment while goin to college ain't cheap either. so yea. :shrug

Originally posted by MCubed45

Originally posted by djtrickee again with the personal insults. Haha. Its ok. I can and will. But I would rather ship yours here. Since I live in Denver, at 1 mile high altitude that would favor my car even less. My job or income level has no consequence on this discussion. But if you want to go there, your 95 pos must have cost you a pretty penny huh?

yes it was cheap as hell. but then i'm a full-time college student only earning about $30k working part time right now.... i suppose i could've bought a more expensive car but i thought it would be more fun to have a project car. besides that, having your own apartment while goin to college ain't cheap either. so yea. :shrug

Do you have roommates? I feel sorry for them.

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by MCubed45

Originally posted by djtrickee again with the personal insults. Haha. Its ok. I can and will. But I would rather ship yours here. Since I live in Denver, at 1 mile high altitude that would favor my car even less. My job or income level has no consequence on this discussion. But if you want to go there, your 95 pos must have cost you a pretty penny huh?

yes it was cheap as hell. but then i'm a full-time college student only earning about $30k working part time right now.... i suppose i could've bought a more expensive car but i thought it would be more fun to have a project car. besides that, having your own apartment while goin to college ain't cheap either. so yea. :shrug

Do you have roommates? I feel sorry for them.

nope. it kinda makes things more expensive but having a bachelor pad is great. :)

Originally posted by MCubed45

Originally posted by CarbonFiberRST I honestly don't beleive it actually can push 3psi, or even 1psi. I have seen a video where they took a gaspowered leaf blower and stuck it to the intake and that made some power on the dyno but you deffinatly won't get that much airflow from a little 12volt fan... its just not going to happen. thats why you only see belt driven and exhaust driven contraptions that actually make power...

that has got to be the most ignorant statement ever. you seriously think electric motors cannot make serious power? why do you think mitsu has a prototype EVO IX driven ENTIRELY by electric motors inside of each wheel. it's a completely different world of AWD. it's like having an engine for EACH wheel. i guess some of the older generation with an indaquate understanding of electronics can't grasp the concept of electric motors and do not fully understand their potential. 12v means nothing. that's nothing more than the voltage pontential. it has nothing to do with the kinda power output you can get from a 12v source. i think this board is seriously starting to show its age. or lack of intelligence anyways. it wouldn't be worth the time explaining the physics involved to you guys.

ok you're right dude, go buy 5.

Wow, this thread was a really bad idea, if a mod could lock it I'd really appreciate it, and sorry for wasting space and re-posting about already discussed topics. I've read far more than I've needed to to make my decision, so thanks for being tolerant.

-Chris

Originally posted by HardaTaq
Wow, this thread was a really bad idea, if a mod could lock it I'd really appreciate it, and sorry for wasting space and re-posting about already discussed topics. I've read far more than I've needed to to make my decision, so thanks for being tolerant. -Chris

Don't freak out young padawan. At least you can see the err of your ways and have realized the Dark side is the only way to go. motor-head.

Okay, thank you, that makes sense. The fan they CLAIM to have is 75,000rpm motor, as opposed to the supposed 25,000rpm that the e-Ram has. If that tells you anything, lol.

Again, please understand I'm not talking in absolutes or anything, or swearing up and down that "OMFG d00d, this adds mad tyte jdm ponies yo", just a really curious guy that wants further explanation. After the searching I've done, nobody really seems to give a 100% concrete reason as to why they are useless. Perhaps I've skimmed over it, if I have, please point my happy-ass in the right direction. I'll be more than happy to admit I'm wrong.

::edited::

Originally posted by HardaTaq
Okay, thank you, that makes sense. The fan they CLAIM to have is 75,000rpm motor, as opposed to the supposed 25,000rpm that the e-Ram has. Again, please understand I'm not talking in absolutes or anything, or swearing up and down that "OMFG d00d, this adds mad tyte jdm ponies yo", just a really curious guy that desires further explanation. After the searching I've done, nobody really seems to give a 100% concrete reason as to why they are useless. Perhaps I've skimmed over it, if I have, point my happy-ass in the right direction.

you won't find the info you need on here. the majority of people on this board don't have the background necessary and 2GNT is very hostile to new ideas.

there's a prototype rx-8 with a hybrid turbocharger. driven by an electric motor at low rpms and mechanically driven at higher rpm's. that's right electrically driven. why? because electric motors do not have lag. don't tell the guys on here though. they don't believe in electricity and all that other hocus-pocus nonsense.

Originally posted by MCubed45

Originally posted by HardaTaq Okay, thank you, that makes sense. The fan they CLAIM to have is 75,000rpm motor, as opposed to the supposed 25,000rpm that the e-Ram has. Again, please understand I'm not talking in absolutes or anything, or swearing up and down that "OMFG d00d, this adds mad tyte jdm ponies yo", just a really curious guy that desires further explanation. After the searching I've done, nobody really seems to give a 100% concrete reason as to why they are useless. Perhaps I've skimmed over it, if I have, point my happy-ass in the right direction.

you won't find the info you need on here. the majority of people on this board don't have the background necessary and 2GNT is very hostile to new ideas. there's a prototype rx-8 with a hybrid turbocharger. driven by an electric motor at low rpms and mechanically driven at higher rpm's. that's right electrically driven. why? because electric motors do not have lag. don't tell the guys on here though. they don't believe in electricity and all that other hocus-pocus nonsense.

Wait a second... I just figured it out. You are prototyping the new Concept Illusions Electric (bilge pump motor) Turbo kit aren't you?

You got any numbers yet? We are all eager-beavers to see what you come up with.

Marc, thanks for the good replies. :) They're greatly appreciated.

::edit:: Damn you guys post fast! DJTrickee, was the post about the side-by-side dyno session directed towards me? In no way whatsoever was I even attempting to imply that these were even close to an ACTUAL forced induction system. If it came off that way, I appologize.

Originally posted by HardaTaq
Marc, thanks for the good replies. :) They're greatly appreciated. ::edit:: Damn you guys post fast! DJTrickee, was the post about the side-by-side dyno session directed towards me? In no way whatsoever was I even attempting to imply that these were even close to an ACTUAL forced induction system. If it came off that way, I appologize.

Not you. The retarded kid above with the red car.

wow that's some pretty interesting stuff. with our cars you'd still hafta do a little fuel modification though so that'd factor in to the cost as well. i'm not sure if you can get away with 2-3psi and no additional fuel... we do run pretty rich stock but in either case you'd still hafta get a missing link or somethin (unless you're 95).

i say if you've got the cash and are willing to experiment then go for it. expect a lot of flamage and nay-saying until you have dyno sheets though. 2gnt is not very open to new products... :P

Originally posted by MCubed45
wow that's some pretty interesting stuff. with our cars you'd still hafta do a little fuel modification though so that'd factor in to the cost as well. i'm not sure if you can get away with 2-3psi and no additional fuel... we do run pretty rich stock but in either case you'd still hafta get a missing link or somethin (unless you're 95). i say if you've got the cash and are willing to experiment then go for it. expect a lot of flamage and nay-saying until you have dyno sheets though. 2gnt is not very open to new products... :P

see above about reputation. Are you starting a club?




Thought so.

Originally posted by HardaTaq
what little reputation I have,

Ahahahahhaha... Oh yea.

Originally posted by HardaTaq
I've taken the time to research the topic, and get to know as much as I can about them,

Doubtful. Seriously... No joking. Seriously.

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by HardaTaq what little reputation I have,

Ahahahahhaha... Oh yea.

Originally posted by HardaTaq I've taken the time to research the topic, and get to know as much as I can about them,

Doubtful. Seriously... No joking. Seriously.

Get a life

Originally posted by Talontaxi

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by HardaTaq what little reputation I have,

Ahahahahhaha... Oh yea.

Originally posted by HardaTaq I've taken the time to research the topic, and get to know as much as I can about them,

Doubtful. Seriously... No joking. Seriously.

Get a life

3 n32wbies at once! oh my. What am i gonna do now...

how could i have missed this post? i must be getting old...

Originally posted by MCubed45
that has got to be the most ignorant statement ever. you seriously think electric motors cannot make serious power? why do you think mitsu has a prototype EVO IX driven ENTIRELY by electric motors inside of each wheel. it's a completely different world of AWD. it's like having an engine for EACH wheel. i guess some of the older generation with an indaquate understanding of electronics can't grasp the concept of electric motors and do not fully understand their potential. 12v means nothing. that's nothing more than the voltage pontential. it has nothing to do with the kinda power output you can get from a 12v source. i think this board is seriously starting to show its age. or lack of intelligence anyways. it wouldn't be worth the time explaining the physics involved to you guys.

once again we find you in the throws of idiocy...you'd argue the merrits of giving ice to eskimos wouldn't you? while you come in this post swinging you physics dick and day dreaming about the "potential" of electric motors, those of us not on the starship enterprise will be focusing our attention on the science that IS proven and IS readily available...

Originally posted by MCubed45
it wouldn't be worth the time explaining the physics involved to you guys.

then please go somewhere where you and you superior vulcan intelignece will be appreciated and stop showing your assininely annoying ablility to support and defend everything that is stupid and wrong.

Originally posted by MCubed45
the majority of people on this board don't have the background necessary and 2GNT is very hostile to new ideas...
there's a prototype rx-8 with ...
they don't believe in electricity and all that other hocus-pocus nonsense.

okay captain ass-hat, i keep noticing you are baseing you "arguments" on prototypes... all fine a dandy. so when this becomes the "new turbo technology" for the masses in... oh... about 50 years, why dont you come back then and we can discuss REALITY. which, by the way is not the same a PROTOTYPE!
so why dont you run off and play with all your little Eintstein friends at the Big college and try and get this sooper dooper new "non-gearhead" technology ready for us to "ooh and ahh" over and let us silly wrench crankers get back to making real power with PROVEN (theres that word again) technology thats in ther here and now, commonly referred to as REALITY!!!!!

Originally posted by tim97rs
those of us not on the starship enterprise will be focusing our attention on the science that IS proven and IS readily available...

Captain! I'm giving it all she's got!

wow being uneducated and unable to paricipate in certain discussions must really suck. i feel sorry for you guys. i suppose if i were that dumb i'd wanna change the subject too though. i wouldn't wanna focus the discussions on WHY something would or would not work. my apologies if this discussion makes you feel inadequate and insecure. i can understand your need to lash out when your weaknesses and short-comings are exposed. if it makes you feel better bash away. it's just too bad we can't have a more intellectual conversation on the efficiences and potentials of new technologies. but don't worry, in the years to come the technology will become main-stream and you may even find yourself purchasing a car which employs such technologies (if you can get over your fears and lack of understanding of the new product). eventually the information will become common enough that hopefully even you will understand one day. til then feel free to flame any post concerning things you do not understand.

Originally posted by MCubed45
mumbo jumbo self contradictory half-speak

Do I really have to break it down for you?

electric turvos are not ground breaking technology. Nor are bilge pumps, or blower fans.

You re-inforce our point in this very post! those technologies may very well be super-efficient in 10-20-30 years from now, but thats NOT what this fuckin discussion is about. Don't change the subject that you got wood from the OP's post about an electric turvo generating a whopping 1.5 psi for $600. Thats what it is about.

Since you think you are so smart... run these numbers and post back will ya?

$600 for 1.5 psi that is generated from an alternator which is derived from a mechanical source- ie- robbing alredy existing power to create power.

OR

1000-2500 for 8-22 psi... which is also robbing/ scavenging power.

NOW figure out

1.5 psi over how much cubic/volumetric space? designed to create that psi in a 3/8" tube

VS.

8-22 PSI over the same designed to move air in an approx. 2" to 2.5" tube

Don't bother posting here again till you can explain to me how this works out to our advantage.

Thought so. Exactly. What did you say? Can't hear you? Speak up.


NEXT!!

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by MCubed45 mumbo jumbo self contradictory half-speak

Do I really have to break it down for you? electric turvos are not ground breaking technology. Nor are bilge pumps, or blower fans. You re-inforce our point in this very post! those technologies may very well be super-efficient in 10-20-30 years from now, but thats NOT what this fuckin discussion is about. Don't change the subject that you got wood from the OP's post about an electric turvo generating a whopping 1.5 psi for $600. Thats what it is about. Since you think you are so smart... run these numbers and post back will ya? $600 for 1.5 psi that is generated from an alternator which is derived from a mechanical source- ie- robbing alredy existing power to create power. OR 1000-2500 for 8-22 psi... which is also robbing/ scavenging power. NOW figure out 1.5 psi over how much cubic/volumetric space? designed to create that psi in a 3/8" tube VS. 8-22 PSI over the same designed to move air in an approx. 2" to 2.5" tube Don't bother posting here again till you can explain to me how this works out to our advantage. Thought so. Exactly. What did you say? Can't hear you? Speak up. NEXT!!

you really don't understand the intent of an electrically driven turbo-charger, do you? it's not meant to outperform a standard mechanical turbo. i'll use small words:

IT GO FAST WHEN YOU PUSH BUTTON
IT GO FAST WHEN RPM IS LOW

if you're running off of stored energy from the battery rather than drawing excessive current from the alt, you are NOT increasing the load on the crank. it's the basic conservation of energy law. in this case the energy is being stored in the form of a baterry and then later released when the elctric motor is activated. YES, ACTIVATED. or more simply:

IT NOT ON ALL TIME.

so no, the energy is not free. it is STORED then later used. again the draw back to an electric motor in this case is it's limited range of efficiency:

IT GOOD AT CERTAIN RPM ONLY

despite the fact that an electric turbine is not typically built to outperform a mechanical counterpart in OVERALL performance - for the sake of argument if you wanted to see where an electric motor excels you would limit the mechanical turbocharger to range in which the electric motor is efficient... i hope i don't need to explain to you why the lag on the electric motor is much less. also these motors are built for a specifc 1 or 1.5 psi. to do a fair comparison you would have to limit your boost as well. you would in essence be doing a comparison at low boost and low rpm levels.

now before you start yelling "THAT'S NOT FAIR, MY CAR SUCKS AT THOSE SETTINGS!!!" you need to step back and understand the intended purpose of an electric turbine - low cost at a minimal level of boost. if you want a lot of power this is NOT a viable option. it is intended for a minor boost in power at a relatively low cost and rather simple installation.

my apologies for using the word "prototype". the examples i cited are not so much new technology as they are the implementation of existing technology. i guess some of you equate prototype with some fancy do-dad in a billion dollar testing lab. NO. this is the incorporation of existing technologies AND techniques which are already being used in other fields. yes it's fairly new to the automotive industry. but given the demographic of certain members i highly doubt much reading is done outside the monthly car-mag...

Originally posted by MCubed45
robble, robble.

Still no answer to some basic math questions... just more rhetoric and attempted downtalking those of us who are right.


Yawn.

Originally posted by MCubed45
wow being uneducated and unable to paricipate in certain discussions must really suck. i feel sorry for you guys. i suppose if i were that dumb i'd wanna change the subject too though. i wouldn't wanna focus the discussions on WHY something would or would not work. my apologies if this discussion makes you feel inadequate and insecure. i can understand your need to lash out when your weaknesses and short-comings are exposed. if it makes you feel better bash away. it's just too bad we can't have a more intellectual conversation on the efficiences and potentials of new technologies. but don't worry, in the years to come the technology will become main-stream and you may even find yourself purchasing a car which employs such technologies (if you can get over your fears and lack of understanding of the new product). eventually the information will become common enough that hopefully even you will understand one day. til then feel free to flame any post concerning things you do not understand.

the simple fact of the matter is that regardles of IQ levels and penis size, the original topic of electric turbos on this forum does not constitue applicable "technology" for our purposes, thereby rendering it POINTLESS. we are tired of every jonny-come-lately who finds and add about a great turbo alternative for $69.95 comin on here and asking about the pros and cons...if you want to discuss relevent technological advances in Turvo-ing now or in the future, find a board at MIT or some other place that gives two shits about it the topic, cause we dont!!!! when its proven and avaliable then it will be worth our time, untill then we we'll leave it all up to you and your big brain to comprehend.

Electric turbos are of no relivence in the here and now. can you appreaciate that?

This thread is awesome. It is seriously the highlight of my night. Ordinarily, I don't get this much entertainment from threads not found in the Interior/Exterior forum, but wow. What a nice surprise. :)

First, I get to watch what I can only describe as the biggest group of stroke-asses ever amassed fucking around on the dyno while the boss is across the street at the No-Tell Motel schtupping his secretary, all set to the gayest soundtrack ever seen in this forum. Then, I get linked to a retarded propaganda video. Finally, I get to read the wonderfully sharp jabs going back and forth. Certainly not a two way street, if you get my drift, but this is all so very entertaining.

All the rhetoric and bitching aside, did you see those guys in the first video? I mean, did you really look at what they were doing? There is no way in HELL I'd take my car within a mile of that shop. It was like something you see on a hidden camera TV show... right before they blow up some bastard's engine. What a bunch of fucktard morons!

EDIT:
for the "robbles"

All in all, I give this thread four out of five "robbles."

Wow, when anyone I know is feeling down about not having a life, I'll send them this post so they feel better. :rolleyes
~Jeffo


Like my tail lights? Get used to looking at them.

Originally posted by DR1665
This thread is awesome. It is seriously the highlight of my night. Ordinarily, I don't get this much entertainment from threads not found in the Interior/Exterior forum, but wow. What a nice surprise. :) First, I get to watch what I can only describe as the biggest group of stroke-asses ever amassed fucking around on the dyno while the boss is across the street at the No-Tell Motel schtupping his secretary, all set to the gayest soundtrack ever seen in this forum. Then, I get linked to a retarded propaganda video. Finally, I get to read the wonderfully sharp jabs going back and forth. Certainly not a two way street, if you get my drift, but this is all so very entertaining. All the rhetoric and bitching aside, did you see those guys in the first video? I mean, did you really look at what they were doing? There is no way in HELL I'd take my car within a mile of that shop. It was like something you see on a hidden camera TV show... right before they blow up some bastard's engine. What a bunch of fucktard morons! EDIT: for the "robbles" All in all, I give this thread four out of five "robbles." http://www2.gascp.com/mcd/aus/McDLandMatsHamburglar.jp g http://www2.gascp.com/mcd/aus/McDLandMatsHamburglar.jp g http://www2.gascp.com/mcd/aus/McDLandMatsHamburglar.jp g http://www2.gascp.com/mcd/aus/McDLandMatsHamburglar.jp g

LMAO. thats awesome. I think it is deserving of a 4 out of 5 for sure.
Robble!

tim, i fully understand where you're coming from and why you feel there is a lack of relevance with the information i've posted. HOWEVER, if you thoroughly read through the original post you'd see that he's not asking if a turvo he saw on e-bay will work. he's done a decent bit of research and was asking for input on the topic. your are absolutely correct in regards to the POS turvo's on ebay and other rip-off shops. but that's not what this guy is asking. the primary down-fall of those "electric fans" was their lack of flow (i.e. extremly low CFM) and their inability to generate positive pressure. yes they could 'blow' air but nothing near what was required for a turbo-charging application.





let's get this back on track:


first, does anyone feel the first video was a complete fake and it is IMPOSSIBLE for a leaf blower to generate positive pressure and therfore a small gain in HP? (yes SMALL ~ 10-15 hp in this case).


second, does anyone feel it is IMPOSSIBLE for an electric motor to generate the same if not more flow AND pressure as a leaf blower?


third, does anyone feel it is IMPOSSIBLE to run a device which draws a large current for a BRIEF period of time on a running car WITHOUT creating a noticeable performance loss? (e.g. can you blast your subs and stereo at max for a couple seconds while driving without the engine bogging)


if you feel any of these 3 points are impossible then please explain why and give thorough reasoning. if you do not feel either of these three are impossible then it logically follows that there may be a cost-effective means of creating a small (though limited) boost in performance. this is where the focus of this discussions should lie - not the pointless name-calling and flaming myself, tim, and dj have been doing. i'm sorry for coming off as an asshole and a condescending SOB. i just want you guys to give some thoughtful insight before jumping to conclusions.

Originally posted by MCubed45
tim, i fully understand where you're coming from and why you feel there is a lack of relevance with the information i've posted. HOWEVER, if you thoroughly read through the original post you'd see that he's not asking if a turvo he saw on e-bay will work. he's done a decent bit of research and was asking for input on the topic. your are absolutely correct in regards to the POS turvo's on ebay and other rip-off shops. but that's not what this guy is asking. the primary down-fall of those "electric fans" was their lack of flow (i.e. extremly low CFM) and their inability to generate positive pressure. yes they could 'blow' air but nothing near what was required for a turbo-charging application. let's get this back on track: first, does anyone feel the first video was a complete fake and it is IMPOSSIBLE for a leaf blower to generate positive pressure and therfore a small gain in HP? (yes SMALL ~ 10-15 hp in this case). second, does anyone feel it is IMPOSSIBLE for an electric motor to generate the same if not more flow AND pressure as a leaf blower? third, does anyone feel it is IMPOSSIBLE to run a device which draws a large current for a BRIEF period of time on a running car WITHOUT creating a noticeable performance loss? (e.g. can you blast your subs and stereo at max for a couple seconds while driving without the engine bogging) if you feel any of these 3 points are impossible then please explain why and give thorough reasoning. if you do not feel either of these three are impossible then it logically follows that there may be a cost-effective means of creating a small (though limited) boost in performance. this is where the focus of this discussions should lie - not the pointless name-calling and flaming myself, tim, and dj have been doing. i'm sorry for coming off as an asshole and a condescending SOB. i just want you guys to give some thoughtful insight before jumping to conclusions.

Well said. I would have to agree. Fuck all the name calling and shit, this is probably the most childish posts I have read for a while. When someone asks a question of whether or not something works, what kind of an answer is, "don't buy one or you're gay"? Shit, when everyone is ready to pull heads out of their asses, please make your way over to this post and answer the following questions or help please. http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=92932&mode=full
This forum is to help people, not have a 3rd grade name calling contest and see who can show both of their cheeks. Anyhew, I respect the opinions of others and their ideas, yes some of the shit gets old, but damn, enough is enough. Like I said, instead of wasting space, do some good and help me out along with another fellow 2gnter who is having the same problem. Sorry if this post pisses anyone off.

~Jeffo


Like my tail lights? Get used to looking at them.

Originally posted by MCubed45
electric turbos are not made to outperform mechnically driven ones. their efficency range is EXTERMELY limited but it is also the range in which mechanical turbos are most INEFFICIENT.

You said it yourself. the range in which mechanical turbos are most EFFICIENT is the same range that most if not all people wanting to make more power are interested in.

Originally posted by MCubed45
i'll explain things more simply to you:
a full dyno pull favors a mechanically driven turbo-charger. it would not prove anything.

A dyno simulates the conditions in which the person on the dyno intends to operate their car in order to tune it for optimal power delivery. Therefore your statement follows the same ideas we are talking about and would prove everything.

Originally posted by MCubed45
i can understand your need to lash out when your weaknesses and short-comings are exposed.

Originally posted by MCubed45
it's just too bad we can't have a more intellectual conversation

Originally posted by MCubed45
that has got to be the most ignorant statement ever.

Originally posted by MCubed45
i think this board is seriously starting to show its age. or lack of intelligence anyways. it wouldn't be worth the time explaining the physics involved to you guys.

Originally posted by MCubed45
talk about reinforcing the stereotype of an un-educated motor head.

Originally posted by MCubed45
you idiot.

Originally posted by MCubed45
*sigh*
it's like trying to eplain fuel injection to a carb guy...

Originally posted by MCubed45
the majority of people on this board don't have the background necessary

Originally posted by MCubed45
wow being uneducated and unable to paricipate in certain discussions must really suck.

Originally posted by CarbonFiberRST

Originally posted by MCubed45 electric turbos are not made to outperform mechnically driven ones. their efficency range is EXTERMELY limited but it is also the range in which mechanical turbos are most INEFFICIENT.

You said it yourself. the range in which mechanical turbos are most EFFICIENT is the same range that most if not all people wanting to make more power are interested in.

Originally posted by MCubed45 i'll explain things more simply to you: a full dyno pull favors a mechanically driven turbo-charger. it would not prove anything.

A dyno simulates the conditions in which the person on the dyno intends to operate their car in order to tune it for optimal power delivery. Therefore your statement follows the same ideas we are talking about.

ok idk what the point of quoting out of context was other than proving that you're fully capable of cutting and pasting... :thumbsup

TO PUT THINGS BACK INTO CONTEXT:

the reference to the dyno was me attempting to explain to DJ why it was pointless - the turbo would make more HP. not once did i ever claim that an electric turbine would out perform a mechnical turbo so i was a bit perplexed at the request for a dyno competition... and as far as turbo's being most efficient where most peole want to make power? NO. if that were the case people would be happy with turbo lag. electric motors have NO LAG. this is why they are used in conjunction with mechanical means. show me one person that does not want zero lag. turbo's are inefficient until they reach their operating RPM. you're trying to tell me that most, if not all people LIKE THIS??? do you really think people are uninterested in getting power in the range before the turbo spools?? you've got some pretty fucked up ideas when it comes to what people want.

this was never a discussion of "is an electric turbo better than a mechanical one?" that would be stupid. it was simply a question of whether an electric turbine could create a small gain in HP. yes SMALL. i'm beginning to get the impression that a lot of people didn't actually read the whole thread despite the very clear title...

*sigh*

Originally posted by MCubed45
ok idk what the point of quoting out of context was other than proving that you're fully capable of cutting and pasting... :thumbsup TO PUT THINGS BACK INTO CONTEXT: the reference to the dyno was me attempting to explain to DJ why it was pointless - the turbo would make more HP. not once did i ever claim that an electric turbine would out perform a mechnical turbo so i was a bit perplexed at the request for a dyno competition... and as far as turbo's being most efficient where most peole want to make power? NO. if that were the case people would be happy with turbo lag. electric motors have NO LAG. this is why they are used in conjunction with mechanical means. show me one person that does not want zero lag. turbo's are inefficient until they reach their operating RPM. you're trying to tell me that most, if not all people LIKE THIS???

Wrong again dude. I, along with most people who actually have turbo experience wouldn't want their turbo instantly kicking on at a full 14psi at a certain rpm number. the "lag" as you like to call it or time it takes to fully spool the turbo as I like to call it, allows me to maintain my traction up to full boost most of the time and if it came on without any build-up would most certainly make the car undriveable.

Lol. now if my, stupid gear-head mechanically driven, turbo only output 1 to 1.5 psi then I suppose instant on wouldn't matter much as no one would even notice it had come on. lol. You're starting to make me wonder if you actually have any real-world experience with these things called turbos, superchargers, TURVOS, or any boosted application. It appears to me all you know is what you might have read in the back of Popular Science.

Originally posted by HardaTaq
I would like to know if you think this would be somthing worth-while to do, for those of us with limited budgets, hectic schedules, and limited tuning/installation experience. Again, I'm not trying to in ANY WAY say that this is a superior method of forced induction, because we all know that it isn't even close, but I honestly would like to try one just to see. I'm looking for VALID reasons why I should, or should not buy and test one of these products. Again, it's 2.9 psi, for around $600, and a 20 minute installation to have you back out on the road, with a few more dyno-tested-and-proven wheel horsepower.

Please, I would really appreciate intelligent responses. I've taken the time to research the topic, and get to know as much as I can about them, so please respect that by giving me some good intelligent replies. Sorry for the long post.

I beleive you have researched this more than anyone else on this board, other than MCubed, has or cares to. Therefore based on your own pro's con's list I think its up to you to make the decision for yourself. IMO, it would be a better idea to either save the money that would be spent on this and just wait until you can afford to get a real turbo.

Also, the video with 2hp leaf blower blowing up the bag appears to be much smaller and weaker than the leaf blower used in the first video (despite the CLAIMS) ... it just obviously looks much weaker and smaller... also the one in the first vid is gas powered and the one with the garbagebag is electronic.

$600 is well on your way to a turbo kit if you peace on together yourself. Its been done for $1000 or less. Thats your best bet.

Also, you could consider a different platform all together... this isn't the ideal sports car, thats for damn sure.

Yeah, I also figured the "e-Ram" people would use the smallest leaf-blower they could find to make their product look more "powerful". Thanks for the good reply.

-Chris

im sorry this is a useless reply, but i just wanted to say it took me damn near half an hour to get 2 minutes worth of information, everyone needs to stop being gay

Originally posted by BlackMagic
im sorry this is a useless reply,

Quid pro quo.

Originally posted by BlackMagic
i just wanted to say it took me damn near half an hour to get 2 minutes worth of information,

Slow reader, eh? ;) Here's a neat little trick that will serve you well in the future here on 2GNT. Whenever you see anything mentioning "electric turbo/supercharger," consider it a joke like anyone else who knows what they're talking about. Then you will be better able to enjoy the thread like I did.

Originally posted by BlackMagic
everyone needs to stop being gay

Be the change you wish to see in the world. :thumbsup

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by BlackMagic im sorry this is a useless reply,

Quid pro quo.

Originally posted by BlackMagic i just wanted to say it took me damn near half an hour to get 2 minutes worth of information,

Slow reader, eh? ;) Here's a neat little trick that will serve you well in the future here on 2GNT. Whenever you see anything mentioning "electric turbo/supercharger," consider it a joke like anyone else who knows what they're talking about. Then you will be better able to enjoy the thread like I did.

Originally posted by BlackMagic everyone needs to stop being gay

Be the change you wish to see in the world. :thumbsup

you just did that to annoy me, but thats ok, im not gonna get into a bitch fight with you like that last time driggs, sticks and stones my friend, sticks and stones, hahaha

This thread has brought me much joy. :D