Sup guys.
I decided to rebuild the engine MYSELF!
I will get a machine shop to bore/hone/clean my block, grind crank for over side rode bearing.
Then I will assemble it.

Can someone please tell me the DETAILS of what things I should do.

I have a LONG ROD Howell bottom end rebuilt kit. 0.020 bored over.

First.
What's the order for me to assemble the block? please tell me if the below is correct order and which step requires the lubricates, and etc...
---Go to the machine shop---
1) Have the engine block clean/bore/hone
2) Get the crank grind down for over size rod bearing
3) Balance the crank,block,piston,rods, etc..

---After machine shop, I assemble---
4) Lubricate the crank journal with engine oil? that goes between the block/bedplate completely! main bearing to block, main bearing to crank journal, crank to main bearing, main bearing to bedplate. (correct? or different lubricate?)
5) Install the crank onto the block after lubricate, then install the bedplate (with the main bearing...)
6) Install the rear main seal
7) Prime the oil pump with Vasoline (pack it)
8) Install the oil pump to the block then install the front main seal.
9) Install the crank sprocket

---Now I move on to the piston/ring/rod/wrist pins---
10) Put the rings into the engine cylinder and check for ring gap, sand it down if needed
11) Install them into the piston, do I require to lubricate the rings before install or after install or at all? I am using total seal piston rings, so??
12) lubricate the wrist pin and the piston pin hole with engine oil
13) place the rod to the piston and install the wrist pin

---Install the piston/rod into the engine---
14) Lubricate all rod bearings surface with engine oil, rod to bearing, bearing to crank journal, crank journal to bearing, bearing to rod cap (correct? or different lubricate?)
15) Lubricate each cylinder wall with engine oil before installing the pistons (correct? or different lubricate? or do I need to lubricate them since I use total seal rings?)
16) Compress the rings and place them into each cylinder
17) Place into the crank, and tight the rod to spec (just tighten it? because turning the rod cap bolt that hard might damage the bearing doesn't it?)


Anyplace I have to check for gaps? specs?
Please give me any thing you can think of.
I have the electronic manual and the book. But I really have to ask them here again, coz I never DID a rebuild before personally (in this detail)

So thanks again.
Gil

Just don't forget that O ring that goes between the bedplate and the block. Sounds like you have everything about right. I just went through all this in the past 2 day's.

almost forgot, if you have the 95 block you will need 2 sets of main bearings.

also download the manual from dino(darkone). Just look for his sig. It helps alot.

Thanks, I have the manual already. 3 version.

I do want to make sure thou, do I use engine oil to lubricate?
and do I lubricate all the area I mentioned above?

Coz I heard the total seal rings doesn't need lubrication when installed or for break in..

Gil

Why not just have the machine shop assemble the block? Everything has to be done precise, it will save you a lot of stress and time and you will know it was done right. No sense in spending all that money and not doing it right the first time.

YA DUDE... i had the shop assem. everything but the pistons/rings... made it very ez


02:19:18pm DarkOne> They'd have had to brought a whole fucking JUG of KY.
02:19:28pm InFiNiT3> lol no shit
02:19:39pm DarkOne> and a funnel.
02:19:45pm grain> have to get the ky with warming
02:20:00pm InFiNiT3> i feel sorry for the 18 y/o (one was 17 one 18) his name was plaster'd all over the news n news paper
02:20:06pm DarkOne> Yeah, has to be warming.
02:20:06pm BuckNutty> jus spit on it and it'll go in
02:20:17pm InFiNiT3> aye the ky w/ warming any good>
02:20:45pm grain> never tryed it
02:20:50pm grain> i applyed for a sample on thier website
02:20:56pm BuckNutty> evan didn't complain any
02:20:56pm BuckNutty> it felt nice
02:20:57pm InFiNiT3> lol
02:21:01pm grain> i use id glide whne she dries
02:21:06pm grain> good stuff
02:21:45pm InFiNiT3> thnx for the new sig guys
02:21:45pm DarkOne> Are we still talking about fucking dead chicks?

Well, coz I am worrying they won't do a good job at assemble the total seal piston rings.

Can I get them assemble all the parts except the piston rings?
or maybe the the pistons/rods all together?

Give me some advise please! Thanks.

What you guys think?
Gil

Originally posted by gilee_8
Well, coz I am worrying they won't do a good job at assemble the total seal piston rings. Can I get them assemble all the parts except the piston rings? or maybe the the pistons/rods all together? Give me some advise please! Thanks. What you guys think? Gil

just have them assemble the block. if you dont trust that shop, go to another one. will save yuo 10,000 headaches!

Originally posted by gilee_8
Well, coz I am worrying they won't do a good job at assemble the total seal piston rings. Can I get them assemble all the parts except the piston rings? or maybe the the pistons/rods all together? Give me some advise please! Thanks. What you guys think? Gil

They're a machine shop, they know what they're doing (typically). If you've never done it, you don't know what you're doing and have less of an idea than the machine shop. I would either have a friend that's very knowledgeable walk you through everything while (s)he's watching over your shoulder. If you don't have any friends that have done this many times, have the machine shop do it. You could probably do it, but it's gonna be guess work.

Originally posted by RxR_Eclipse
almost forgot, if you have the 95 block you will need 2 sets of main bearings.

Or you can buy them here with the tangs on the correct side:

http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/page29.html

Thanks for all the input!
But guys, the reason is, I cannot find a trust worthy machineshop.
and the one that I found that I trust is at least over $1000 for assembling it.

So it's crazy.

I trust machine shop.. but not the totalseal rings!

And yes, I konw I never did it before, and I dont know any friend that did it many times.

That is the reason why I posted here for super detail questions.
So someone! please help!
Thanks.
Gil

Originally posted by gilee_8
Thanks for all the input! But guys, the reason is, I cannot find a trust worthy machineshop. and the one that I found that I trust is at least over $1000 for assembling it. So it's crazy. I trust machine shop.. but not the totalseal rings! And yes, I konw I never did it before, and I dont know any friend that did it many times. That is the reason why I posted here for super detail questions. So someone! please help! Thanks. Gil

$1000, thats crazy. what state are you in? it cost me $575 for a bore, hone, degrease and shortblock assembly total with total seals man.

That's why I am thinking of doing it myself bro.
Now you understand man..... it's insane around here!

SO anyone with their opinions on the above first post questions?

Originally posted by gilee_8
Sup guys. I decided to rebuild the engine MYSELF!

<groan>

Originally posted by gilee_8
I will get a machine shop to bore/hone/clean my block, grind crank for over side rode bearing. Then I will assemble it. Can someone please tell me the DETAILS of what things I should do. I have a LONG ROD Howell bottom end rebuilt kit. 0.020 bored over. First. What's the order for me to assemble the block? please tell me if the below is correct order and which step requires the lubricates, and etc... ---Go to the machine shop--- 1) Have the engine block clean/bore/hone 2) Get the crank grind down for over size rod bearing 3) Balance the crank,block,piston,rods, etc.. ---After machine shop, I assemble---

4) Ask the machine shop to finish the job by assembling the block.

Originally posted by gilee_8
4) Lubricate the crank journal with engine oil? that goes between the block/bedplate completely! main bearing to block, main bearing to crank journal, crank to main bearing, main bearing to bedplate. (correct? or different lubricate?)

Don't use engine oil, use assembly lube. It is more viscous, and will not flow away from the friction surfaces before the oil pressure comes up. Use loctite 518 (or permatex anaerobic gasketmaker, or Hondabond, or anything similar) between the block and bedplate. Do not worry about lubricating between the back of an oil film bearing and it's race. Just lubricate between the bearings and the journals (between the rod bearings and the crank, and between the main bearings and the crank).

Originally posted by gilee_8
5) Install the crank onto the block after lubricate, then install the bedplate (with the main bearing...) 6) Install the rear main seal 7) Prime the oil pump with Vasoline (pack it) 8) Install the oil pump to the block then install the front main seal. 9) Install the crank sprocket ---Now I move on to the piston/ring/rod/wrist pins--- 10) Put the rings into the engine cylinder and check for ring gap, sand it down if needed

Don't sand them, use a ring file.

Originally posted by gilee_8
11) Install them into the piston, do I require to lubricate the rings before install or after install or at all? I am using total seal piston rings, so??

I wouldn't bother lubricating the rings.

Maybe I'll go over the rest of this when I get home, but I need to leave my desk.

I'm going to buck the trend here, and say go for it - build the engine yourself. We all have to start somewhere, and if you are really interested in building an engine yourself, then do it. You may make some mistakes and being meticulous about EVERYTHING is extremely important - but this will be a great learning experience. Building up a 420a is not rocket science nor neurosurgery, don't let these guys scare you off. Yea, you might end up with a big BOOM or a RPM-dependant knock. but IMO getting there yourself is 100% of the enjoyment of modding a car

gil, may the force be with you :)

I would strongly advise having someone help you do it, who has actually built an engine before. It's not hard, but having someone by your side, will be an asset to you. Most of us here have a good idea of your skills, and this is my advice to you, if you decide to assemble it yourself. Good luck.

Dude,

Assemble it yourself and follow the 420A manual from Dino's sig EXACTLY. Take everything one step at a time. Have patience. If you get stuck and don't know what to do, just stop and find out what to do from this site or ask someone from here.

Just take your time and be very thorough.

Tony

But do I worried most machine shop don't know how to install total seal, since total seal rings are more newer and less use than others... so they are less experience with them!...

BTW, I don't HAVE to balance the engine do I?
Gil

Originally posted by gilee_8
BTW, I don't HAVE to balance the engine do I? Gil

Well, I doubt you have the machinery to do it in your garage. ;) It's a good idea. But build that fucker yourself, if nothing else you will learn something.

.... I am back into thinking if I should build it, or let the machine shop does it.

THanks for all your input!
Gil

If you aren't very mechanically inclined, or you have never done this, I wouldn't recommend assembling it yourself.

I know that you haven't done this, so you are going to have to ask yourself "Am I very mechanically inclined?"

If not, have the machinist assemble the block. Even if he has never used Total Seal rings, he isn't really at a disadvantage. After all, have you ever used Total Seal rings? At least a machinist has built a few other blocks before...

Just something to think about. I'm sure that I will be amused either way.

Well, I did my entire turbo kit myself (custom intake piping, custom fitting, rotate turbo, custom exhaust and downpipe, etc etc...) all welded,measured,fit, and install by myself.

I love mechanical stuff. I pulled the entire engine 4 times.
changed timing belt 2 times. changed headgasket one time.
I just never assemble the Engine block internal parts. coz they are VERY precious. and I am worried.

I greatly appreciated what you said Dumking_Fumbass.
Now, from you all point of view, you all think I can do this myself?

I WANT it done and GOOD the first time. so I don't expect to fxxk it up since I am doing it myself and redo it the 2nd time just for fun.
I have great pressure, but do you guys think I can handle it?

Also XtremeRS... what you think? you said you all know my skill level, think I can do it?

Or can I install the rings myself, and install the piston and rods myself, but I get the rest done by them?

Edit: one last question. if I do plan to do the above myself (install ring, piston and rods myself) What steps do I do to get my engine balanced? after everything is assembled?
Or straight from the beginning before anything is assemble, I gave them my rods, piston, block, crank, etc to balance first? or balancing an engine MUST have rings installed and so on?

Thanks all.
Gil

well installing a turbo and rebuilding an engine are two totally different things. Turbo is just bolt on stuff an engine is very tricky as I have learned. You gotta measure clearances and crap and should take it to a machine shop haha unlike me. I figured I could just take the old pistons out and put new ones in and now I got a 420A that eats up a quart of oil every 150 miles. Anyway you should at least have the machine shop do the measuring and machine work.

As for total seal rings I would chuck em and (or sell) get some conventional rings I hear hastings are good. That's the problem I'm running in to right now they hold compression great but they're burning oil like a mofo I hear more negative stuff about total seal rings than good stuff. Plus you have to disable your PCV system or you get these goofy idle and check engine lights. Not worth it in my opinion. So if your really worried about the shop installing them wrong or what not I wouldn't have them installed at all.

Have the shop do it. End of story. Period. Unless you plan on superglueing the pistons and rods together too!!
lol.

You want my honest opinion gil, i'd say you can do it, but not by yourself. That is why i suggested you have someone who had built engines before, to be by your side as a guide. It's really difficult for us to tell you how to build an engine over the internet, as it's really an aquired skill. It's not hard to build one, but there are very important measurements, procedures, and torque specs that all need to be followed very carefully. You need to measure bearing clearances, piston ring end gaps, properly staggering the rings once on the piston, using the piston ring compressor properly to get the pistons into the bores, proper ring placement and direction, and other things like that. This was my first entire motor rebuild, and it's been going strong now at 30k+ miles. But way back before i even started driving, i was tearing apart and rebuilding small engines, like whats found on lawnmowers and tractors, ect. The fundamentals are the same really, just on a larger scale with a car engine. That's my advice anyway.

Thats good advice. The only reason I said to have the machine shop do it period is because thats what they do. Period. They know these clearances and how to measure them, and what to look for. You say you have hesitations that they will do a good job or a correct job, but thats what they do, and NOT what you do. If I have to go get surgery I dont consider doing it myself just because its my body and they might not know my body...

EDIT: and to be honest with you, Gil, I remember when you "built" your custom kit, and did your headgasket. There were enough questions and mistakes along the way with both of those to fill a 1000 page book. Not that thats bad, but its the truth, and if you want a solid engine the 1st time around, then it will be better to have someone do it for you as opposed to you doing it wrong the 1st time. Its gonna be an expensive learning experience if you forget something or do something wrong with the build.

djtrickee and XtremeRS, I greatly appreciated your help!

And I take both of your advise... you both gave me great insight, opinions, and persuaded me to go for the machine shop route.

So I will get Hasting rings, and so will be it!

But I do want to konw is, when is the "balancing the block" place in the order of the engine rebuild?
Definitely after the machine work right.
But before ANY part assemble? or need to get the crank installed? rings? piston? rod? etc etc?

Thanks again everyone!
Gil

Take the block, pistons, rings, wrist pins, rods and crank to the machine shop. They will balance your rotating assembly( all above except the block and possibly the rings.)They will also do all the boring and honing then too. Then assemble it.

Originally posted by gilee_8
I greatly appreciated what you said Dumking_Fumbass.

What the fuck, Mr. Bighead? I take it all back. I doubt that you can put a block together. You can't even get my forum name right!

As Dino alluded to, attention to detail, which you lack in your posting/writing/question-asking style, is VITAL to getting a motor to stay together.

As I alluded to, whatever you wind up doing will probably amuse me.

???? what the hell?

I don't see what's wrong with saying "I greatly appreciate your help!"

Yes, I sometimes type like shit because I am in a hurry or sometimes I just don't care about it. It's not like I am in an English Class or something.

...... no need to talk about "I can't type, or all those shit" and relate them into my Mechanical skills.
IF ALL of us are EXPERTS, then why the hell we have to have this forum??? why the hell people has to come here for help???

let's put it this way. I think I'm pretty good with wrench, and I have assisted with a few rebuilds. But when it came to this engine I had the shop that did the machine work, and balencing, assemble it. It only cost me an addtional 75 bucks. For me that 75 dollars is well worth the piece of mind that everything got assembled correctly, at the right torque specs, and clearances. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Originally posted by gilee_8
???? what the hell? I don't see what's wrong with saying "I greatly appreciate your help!" Yes, I sometimes type like shit because I am in a hurry or sometimes I just don't care about it. It's not like I am in an English Class or something. ...... no need to talk about "I can't type, or all those shit" and relate them into my Mechanical skills. IF ALL of us are EXPERTS, then why the hell we have to have this forum??? why the hell people has to come here for help???

Just ignore him gilee. Hes a fucking chimp. Even after you made the Wise, wise, wise, decision to have it built by a shop, he finds great pleasure in coming in and trying to belittle you. He's like a 3 year old, if you ignore him for long enough, hopefully he will fall in the pool and drown. Search for the1bill if you need more stuff to laugh at.

I was just poking fun about him misspelling my forum name. That's it.

Sheez. I was helpful in this thread, actually.

Cripes.

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass
I was just poking fun about him misspelling my forum name. That's it. Sheez. I was helpful in this thread, actually. Cripes.

heeh.

hey i will put it together for you for $300 and i have used total seal rings in alot of engines my 420A included. i would not do this yourself! there are to many small but very importain steps you need to follow and clearences to check as you assemble. file your rings wrong and you will be pulling it all right back apart. i have a different machinist now so i might be able to get you a really good deal on everything but balencing. honestly i wouldn't bother with it. i have personaly seen many 420A cranks be balenced and they always are within nascar specs right from the factory(realy good). unlike 4g63 crank that are usually way out.

How did this thread get so big? There are like 40 posts and I didn't gain a bit of knowledge from any of them. So how are things going gilee? I might as well give you my 2cents while I'm here. I would say you should not do it yourself. You sound alot like me, only I have much better grammar. I'm in the top 10 when it comes to 420a destruction. I've done practically all the work to my car since I've had it and it hasn't killed me yet, but I've definetally had my share of mistakes. Many of them being expensive mistakes. But no matter what people tell me, I've learned alot and I don't regret too MUCH of it. Anyhow, 420a's are quite simple, but when it comes to engine internals it is very important that things are done properly and checked over by someone who has done it before and knows what they are doing. You will not learn anything by guessing and hoping you are doing it correctly. The only way to be sure is through experience, which you do not have. And you should not rely on this rebuild to gain experience. I'm sure you don't want to start your car up after all this effort and money and everything shatter to peices. I personally am in the process of a rebuild equal to yours, and I am having the machine shop do all of the bottom end machining and assembly. Best of luck.

Go advise man.
And yes, I am going your way. get a shop and get it over with!
Thanks all for your advise!