Try and follow me the best you can. First off, I searched and did not find an answer at all. I just rebuilt and everything was cool except my idle, so I figured it was vaccum or timing was off. Well, no vaccum leaks and I have adjustable cam gears, so I figured I'd just take the timing belt back off just to be safe and sure everything was right. I bought a set of stock cam gears and put them on to line up the marks. Ok, the marks lined up and I used a string to make sure they were perfect so I could make new marks on my adjustable gears. (you know, I put another notch on the other side of the cam gear so I could make an imaginary line going accross both cam gears to line them up perfectly). Upon getting the gears perfectly lined up, I decided to take the timing belt and see if it fit on the gear teeth on both of the gears correctly while they were installed. Well, no such luck. When the cam gears are lined up perfectly (I am positive they are perfect) the belt does not sit on both of the gears correctly, it either has way too much slack, or it fits on one gear, and it's a half a tooth off of fitting onto the other one. The only way I could get the belt to sit on both of the gears was if I turned the exhaust cam gear slightly clockwise and turned the intake cam gear slightly counter clockwise, but then the marks are not "truly" lined up. The other way I got the belt to sit on the gears correctly was if I slightly turned the exhaust cam gear counter clockwise and turned the intake cam gear clockwise. Do you understand what I am saying here? No matter what, both of the gear tick marks are ever so slightly angled upward or slightly angled downward. :twitch I just want to know whether I should go slightly up, or slightly down. I took some pictures to help show what I am trying to say, but I can't get them up at the moment. I will try to get the pics posted, but please help me out of you know what I'm talking about. Man, I have a headache now. :wallbash
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

Got the pics, can someone host them for me?? It just won't work. Just let me know what email to send 'em to. TIA.
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

you can send the pics to me and i can host em for ya, my email is eclipse982nr@aol.com

but let me ask you, is this a brand new timing belt or are you using your old stock one? if its brand new, where did you buy it from? i bought off of ebay last year and the notches were too thick and i had the same problem you were having, and then i went to NAPA and got another one and it was fine. maybe look into that, could just be something stupid like that...

Well, the timing belt is brand new, but I tried my other 2 old ones, but I got the same result. I'm sending you the pics, thanks for helping.
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

where are you putting the crank pulley?
oh and what brand of cam gears???

Have you ever had any material taken off of the head surface? I have found that even with only .008" taken off, it can make the marks not line up pefectly. Since you have adjustable gears,then you are all set really. Just get it as close as you can, then rotate the adjustable part of the cam gear to true TDC. You will use the "0" on the cam gear to reference TDC now, instead of the TDC mark on the outer part of the gear. Make sense?

Yes that makes sense and I was going to resort to that, but I'm trying to line up my stock cam gears, so I can put the marks on my new Fidanza cam gears. I don't have the belt around the crank, I was just laying the belt accross the tops of the gears to see if the teeth fit in evenly, they don't. I know the head being shaved would have something to do with it if I had the belt around the crank and everything, but since it's just on the gears, I don't understand why it won't come out even. The pictures should be posted soon, but if anyone wants to put them up now, you can get a little better idea of what I am talking about.
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

well i have fidanza's and my head was milled 35 thousands, yes there is some slack before putting the tension on. Just make sure the timing doesn't skip a tooth or anything. Once you put the tension on the gears everything will be fine. I had to have someone hold my gears while i did my timing so the belt didn't skip.

First off, thanks for all of the help, but I don't think everyone is fully understanding what I'm saying. I was trying to just line up my cam gears together and get them to true top dead center, (at this point I'm not even paying any attention to the crank). The stock cam gears got lined up perfectly (and I mean perfect) but the belt won't lay accross the top of the gears without have to rock them inwards or outwards aaway from TDC, do you understand what I'm saying? I just want to know if I should rock them in away from TDC or out away from TDC. Thanks guys, I'm trying my best to explain. P.S. anyone want to host them pics for me? :)
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

no i know exactly what your saying i had the same problem but with my head being milled 35 thousands it was quite the slop in the belt. I had marked the belt exactly where the shop had the belt on the gears. I marked the belt and the tooth that is was on. Lined them up at tdc when the crank was 1/2 btdc lined the belt up starting on the water pump side. there should be any slack in the line until you get to the exhaust cam. over the ex cam and onto the intake cam with the marks lining up where the belt and the cam gears met before. if there is slack i pulled the intake cam gear retarded from tdc and it tensioned the belt in between the cams. You know the cams are still in relation to each other as long as the t-belt doesn't skip. have someone hold down the t-belt while you install the tensioner. let it tension and rotate the crank, what 2 revolutions i believe. The first rev they should line up but the second time it will. the crank should be at tdc and the cam gears will be maybe 1 or 2* off but if it's a whole tooth you WILL know. hope that helps. (correct me if im wrong matt)

Ok, I think I'll head out and just deal with it the best I can. I am getting so sick of timing belt changes I could puke. :puke I guess since I have adjustable cam gears I really don't have to worry "too" much. I just get anal about putting things together the same exact way. This motor better make it, I's sick of driving my 89 Civic. Well, with gas prices, maybe it wouldn't be too bad of a thing. :rolleyes
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

I have the AEM gears and the marks don't exactly line up which has been discussed before. But I don't know why your stock gears are not lining up. I just thought I would show you what my AEM gears look like installed to see if they resemble what yours look like.

yeah, that's what my Fidanza gears look like. You'd think that something that costs so much and that's so precise could at least have correct little white lines on it. lol. :)
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

Here are the pics he sent me...
http://www.imageshack.us>
http://www.imageshack.us>

I had probs with timing when I replaced my HG. I lined the marks, 1/2 notch and everything but after a few revolutions it'd be off. After the 3rd time I found out that the marks were off from the start. Since the car was jacked up at an angle I was reading it wrong. I got down to eye level with the cam gears a straight edge and got the mark. Everything worked out fine.
Alvin

http://www.cardomain.com/id/96rst

Its hard to tell from the pics, but the TDC marks on the cam gears should be in line with the CENTERLINES of the cam gear bolt holes. Its really easy to get it off from that. Just take a straight edge and put the edge of it across the center of the cam bolt holes. Then the TDC marks on the gears should follow that centerline. It doesnt look like the marks are following cam gear bolt hole centerline..kinda like this:

O - - O

Take the straight edge and put the edge of it in the center of the "o"'s(the cam gear bolt holes) You basically want an imaginary "line" from bolt hole center that follows the TDC marks, and then onto the other cam bolt hole. Get what i'm saying?

Yeah, that's axactly what I did. I took a straight edge and ran it lines up the marks perfectly with the center of the bolts and on the tooth that I marked as center for the cams. Like this -0-0- . Trust me, they are lined up perfectly, I have done many timing belt changes, and have never had this problem. I just don't get it. Any other ideas?
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

Have you actually put the AEM gear up to a stock gear and matched up the marks? I know my AEM's were off just a hair..like 1/2 tooth
Like I said though, if you have material taken off of your cylinder head, the marks will NOT line up like normal.

Hey, the timing belt isn't around the crank, so the head being shaved wouldn't have anything to do with it. My stock gears are lining up like in the picture above. The gears are perfectly lined up to where the imaginary line goes over the ticks and the center bolts and the exact opposite teeth on the other side of the gears that line up with the ticks. So, I know the gears are perfectly lined up. But, every time I lay the belt accross the top, it's either too loose or too tight. I just need to know whether I should rock the tops of the gears toward eachother, or away from eachother to get the belt to lay accross the tops of the them evenly. Any ideas? Thanks for the help guys.
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

Originally posted by powellds
Hey, the timing belt isn't around the crank, so the head being shaved wouldn't have anything to do with it. My stock gears are lining up like in the picture above. The gears are perfectly lined up to where the imaginary line goes over the ticks and the center bolts and the exact opposite teeth on the other side of the gears that line up with the ticks. So, I know the gears are perfectly lined up. But, every time I lay the belt accross the top, it's either too loose or too tight. I just need to know whether I should rock the tops of the gears toward eachother, or away from eachother to get the belt to lay accross the tops of the them evenly. Any ideas? Thanks for the help guys. ~Jeffo Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

Originally posted by totaleklipse97
no i know exactly what your saying i had the same problem but with my head being milled 35 thousands it was quite the slop in the belt. I had marked the belt exactly where the shop had the belt on the gears. I marked the belt and the tooth that is was on. Lined them up at tdc when the crank was 1/2 btdc lined the belt up starting on the water pump side. there should be any slack in the line until you get to the exhaust cam. over the ex cam and onto the intake cam with the marks lining up where the belt and the cam gears met before. if there is slack i pulled the intake cam gear retarded from tdc and it tensioned the belt in between the cams. You know the cams are still in relation to each other as long as the t-belt doesn't skip. have someone hold down the t-belt while you install the tensioner. let it tension and rotate the crank, what 2 revolutions i believe. The first rev they should line up but the second time it will. the crank should be at tdc and the cam gears will be maybe 1 or 2* off but if it's a whole tooth you WILL know. hope that helps. (correct me if im wrong matt)

maybe you didn't read what i wrote the first time so here it is again.

If you hold your stock cam gear up to the AEM, you will prob find that the hash mark on the AEM gear should be directly in the center of the tooth divot, wich in the pic, means both marks will be in line. Its hard to get it to line up pefectly, because there NEEDS to be TENSION on the belt, not just laying the belt over the gears themselves. When correct tension is on the belt when fully installed, it moves the cam gears marks in line with eachother. Intall you belt, and set the tension properly, and you will find the TDC marks will be lined up. Just be sure your TDC marks on the AEM's are identical to the stock gears. Just put a stock cam gear ontop of the AEM, and line up the dowel slot on both gears, then mark the AEM gear to the TDC mark on the stock gear.

Also in this pic, set the cam gear marks so its opposite of how it is in the pic, when uninstalled. Set the intake cam gear so the TDC mark is slightly BELOW centerline, and set the exhaust cam mark slightly ABOVE centerline. Then when you set the tension on the tensioner with the torque wrench, it pulls the intake cam gear up slightly, which pulls the exhaust cam down slightly, and then all marks are perfectly in line.

Ok, everything so far has been great advice, so I decided to go ahead and get the timing belt back on and move the marks back to TDC on the gears after I got the crank at TDC. I started my car and sure enough, code 11, this is the second time I have done this. I am totally stumped on this one. I have had the head shaved twice, so I think that's something to do with it. I just don't understand, I lined it up as best I could, then moved the adjustable cam gears to "true" TDC and rotated it two times from the crank and everything lined up still. After I got the code 11, I tore back into it, and the marks were still lined up (what the hell?) At this point, I am thinking maybe my Crower 2's are messed up somehow, or my cam sensor is messed up. I just don't know. Lemme know what you guys would do in my shoes besides throw a wrench at it. Thanks so far though, it's helped me come down to this. (I hate timing belts :puke)
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

Any thoughts??
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my tail lights? Yeah, well get used to looking at them.

put the belt on and get it as close as you can. It will run and just adjust form there.

best time so far 14.3 @ 101.1mph(no traction)
www.cnnmotorsports.com