well...nothing different....ecu swappped still, no fire.
only CEL is 12 & 55 on both ecu's.

why do i have no spark?

fuel pump primes, and coil packs middle wire IS seeing 12V? dude seriously i dont know why your bitch isnt sparking.

what did you do to the car BEFORE this shit happened? i bet that has something to do with it...

edit: when my car wouldnt spark it wouldnt spit out any CEL's either, it ended up being the WIRING for the crank sensor, so i mean...maybe your CAS or CPS wires melted or soemthing...rewire it

I know this sounds wierd, but the wiring on the passenger side somehow got unclipped and started rubbing against the pullies and it made my car cut off and wouldn't start back up. I had to tape each individual wire up and then tape the whole thing up and zip-tied it away from the pullies. Maybe check all of your wires in the engine bay. Start pushing in all of your connections just to make sure.

Originally posted by turbo8u
fuel pump primes, and coil packs middle wire IS seeing 12V? dude seriously i dont know why your bitch isnt sparking. what did you do to the car BEFORE this shit happened? i bet that has something to do with it... edit: when my car wouldnt spark it wouldnt spit out any CEL's either, it ended up being the WIRING for the crank sensor, so i mean...maybe your CAS or CPS wires melted or soemthing...rewire it

fuel pump primes - plugs are wet.
middle pin coil pack plug sees 12v.

drove it just fine for 2 days after clutch install (8 miles) drove to starbucks on morning of incident, went inside and let my built TT on my alarm count down, came back out with car off and tried to start it and no go. it back fired 3-4 times while trying to start it. had it towed home and the rest is history.

hey, you have the tach adapter right? Also have you tested the trigger wire while cranking making sure its reading.

What the fuck, man? Pull the alarm and go back to stock? Could it be something related to the alarm system? How old is it? I wonder what would happen if you unpugged the alarm "brain" and tried to start it? I'm no genious when it comes to alarms so who knows. Just wish there was something I could do to help, Tim. :shrug

i bet that turbo timer bullshit had something to do with this...i mean, it was running fine..and the last one at the scene (if you will) was the TT counting down...sooo...add it up

take it out and go back to stock

its a very high end alarm unit thats less than a year old, so i doubt its that. BUT.. i did unplug the brain and that made no difference, totaly took it out of the loop... had my expert installer friend check it out today (he installed it) and there was nothing wrong with it. it only has a stater kill, not a spark kill. if it was the unit it wouldn't even allow it to turn over at all.
im about to go over every wire and connection in the engine bay, romve what i can and inspect it...

or somehow that brain fried something in the electrical system, like an ignition fuse or something...but in that case i dont think it would give the coil power. i think you just have a sensor problem, like wiring or something.

whats your take on the possibilty of a tach wire being grounded out somewhere....? would that allow crank but no spark? thats what the tech at compustar(alarm) suggested..?

yes if it doesn't see voltage hense my post above

Originally posted by madhatter210
yes if it doesn't see voltage hense my post above

sorry, missed that post. yea, i have the tach adapter. the LED on the MSD which indicates spark does blink when cranking, so i think (assume) at least to that point i have spark. but i also have a few other tach referances for my alarm, shift light, wideband, and 034EFI that might cause an issue...humm.....

if i have 12v to the coil plug, wouldn't that mean i have spark in relationto a tach signal?

Originally posted by tim97rs

Originally posted by madhatter210 yes if it doesn't see voltage hense my post above

sorry, missed that post. yea, i have the tach adapter. the LED on the MSD which indicates spark does blink when cranking, so i think (assume) at least to that point i have spark. but i also have a few other tach referances for my alarm, shift light, wideband, and 034EFI that might cause an issue...humm..... if i have 12v to the coil plug, wouldn't that mean i have spark in relationto a tach signal?

If im not mistaken that signal comes in at around 5 v on the trigger while cranking.when its tapped into you lose some and it doesn't read.......I know it throws a cel but if your tapped into it in a few places it might just be the problem as the tach adapter only aids the msd I believe the way its hooked up. It might be a break/short and your just not picking up the cel.While cranking hook it up to a meter and see what it reads......I did mine with the hood open and putting the meter on the winshield while I cranked it over.

yea your best friend is a multimeter at this point, trust me...ive been there...and it sucks ass

i had a tach wire gorund out and it didnt affect that at all, all it did was really fuck with my rpm gauge and like dip down and come back up...it was really weird but yea, traced it to a grounding tach wire

spark is determined by the crank and cam sensors though, and certain things have to check out in order for the pump to prime and the coil to see power. id see about rewiring the crank sensor or justm making sure everything on the ignition control side has a strong connection, that way you can rule that out.

i saw VERY similar problems to you, and it was wiring...so thats all im saying.

wiring is next on the list. is there any type of magnet or anything like that on the crank that the sensor sees that might have fallen off. i know that sounds relly stupid... but hay! its me we're talking about

Any chance your timing belt slipped and your timing is messed up?

Originally posted by mike_d
Any chance your timing belt slipped and your timing is messed up?

nope. i dont think it would slip that much to not allow spark...

Originally posted by tim97rs
wiring is next on the list. is there any type of magnet or anything like that on the crank that the sensor sees that might have fallen off. i know that sounds relly stupid... but hay! its me we're talking about

there is like a metal/aluminum cap on the end of the crank sensor. i dont know if its a magnet or not, but there is something that appears to look like one on the end.

this may sound stupid too, but, does it crank alot or just crank and maybe die down a little bit?

i was refering to anything on the actual crank itself that the sensor would read from.... kinda like the magnet on the end of the cam for the CPS to read. i bought a new crank sensor...

as far as cranking, it behaves just like it always has when starting, except theres no firing over. it will crank normaly 4-6 times then "hiccup", and crank fine again for 4-6ish times and do the same thing.
i assume the "hiccup" has something to do with building compression without spark but, i dont know....

without knowing if your getting signal while cranking...those symptoms sound like timing issues.Maybe you lost a tooth or 2 on the belt

Originally posted by madhatter210
without knowing if your getting signal while cranking...those symptoms sound like timing issues.Maybe you lost a tooth or 2 on the belt

i think he did a compression test and that checked out, so i doubt its his timing

Originally posted by madhatter210
without knowing if your getting signal while cranking...those symptoms sound like timing issues.Maybe you lost a tooth or 2 on the belt

whats the BEST way to check for signal while cranking?

The easiest way to check your cam/crank sensor signals, is with a LED test light. Get any normal colored LED, preferably a 12 volt LED from RAdioshack. On the positive lead, put in a resistor, anywhere from 350-1000k resistance. Now, put the 12volt lead of the LED to consant 12volts, and the negative side of the LED will go to whatever trigger wire you are testing. For instance, the crank sensor trigger wire is a blue/white wire. The LED will "flash" as it sees each trigger pulse. So do the same with the cam sensor trigger wire(forget which wire color it is), and you can also use this to test any other triggers you want, such as injector drivers also. This LED tester, how its wired, is to test a pulsating ground signal, so if you need to test a pulsating positive signal, then put the negative lead of the LED to ground, and the positive lead to the trigger wire. I believe most of our triggers are ground signals, so you may not have to worry about that, someone else may want to clarify that though.

I would test these wires at the ECU, and at the sensor itself, to let you know if you have any wiring issues between the sensor and ECU. I use a LED tester like this everyday at my work, but I also use a Matco LED tester, which is nice, but the simple one i described above, will work just fine.

Oh yeah, you can use this tester on the 2 coilpack trigger wires also, just test the two outer wires. You may want to do this first, just to see if you are actualy getting any trigger signals to the coilpack, then if not, test the crank/cam sensors. Be sure to test the cam and crank sensors for power on their power wire leads. I belive they are 9 volts? Either that or 5 volts..cant remember at the moment

thank you matt.

Hey Tim, I sent you a PM about buying your spare sensors. Forget the ECU I was a dumbass and forgot the 97rs part of your name. But if you want to sell those extra crank and cam sensors I'm willing to buy them.

cool, i'll get back to ya shortly about that...

You will be looking for ground signals from the cam and crank sensors. There are three wires on the cam and crank sensors, A yellow a green/black and a (blue/red on the cam)(blue/white on the crank). The blue/red wire from the cam sensor runs to pin 33 on my 97 ecm, and the blue/white from the crank sensor runs to a relay box then to pin 32 on the ecm. Hook a testlight to power and backprobe the harness connector on the wire with w/o power. Have someone turn the engine over and the testlight will flash when the sensor reads. Do that to the cam and crank sensors. The ecm sends that ground signal to the coil and breaks the field giving it spark. The black/red wire should be power at the coil, the brown should control one side of the coil and the black/blue should control the other side. I have a 97 so im not sure if the wire colors are the same, but the brown wire runs to pin 3 of the ecm and the black/blue runs to pin 2 on the ecm. Oh by the way the yellow and the green/black wires from the cam/crank wires both go through the vehicle speed sensor mounted on the manual tranny. So it is likely that crapped out. Good luck man, there is not a whole lot it could be, it's just gonna take time.

wait a second.. so BOTH the crank and cam sensors are run thru/connected to/have something to do with.. the speed sensor? would the speed sensor being tits up have anything to do with spark?

Originally posted by tim97rs
wait a second.. so BOTH the crank and cam sensors are run thru/connected to/have something to do with.. the speed sensor? would the speed sensor being tits up have anything to do with spark?

Speed sensor shares power with the cam/crank sensors. So lets say your speed sensor is shorted out, then that can kill the power to the other sensors, and they wont work.. I would unplug the speed sensor, and then try and start it. MEASURE your power wires for voltage at the cam and crank sensors! What does it read?

Originally posted by XtremeRS
Speed sensor shares power with the cam/crank sensors. So lets say your speed sensor is shorted out, then that can kill the power to the other sensors, and they wont work.

Isn't the speed sensor the last in the line of sensors to receive power from the cam and crank sensors? I don't think a break there would prevent getting power to the other two. How have you checked spark? have you grounded a plug to see how good the spark is?

On another note. I had the same problem you describe when I first went to fire my new motor. The problem wound up being one of the trigger wires. It was severed sometime when I was installing the engine. Therefore I was only getting spark to two cylinders.

Originally posted by 96NTeclipse

Originally posted by XtremeRS Speed sensor shares power with the cam/crank sensors. So lets say your speed sensor is shorted out, then that can kill the power to the other sensors, and they wont work.

Isn't the speed sensor the last in the line of sensors to receive power from the cam and crank sensors? I don't think a break there would prevent getting power to the other two.

In a series circuit it doesn't matter where the break is, if one goes they all go.

Originally posted by tim97rs
wait a second.. so BOTH the crank and cam sensors are run thru/connected to/have something to do with.. the speed sensor? would the speed sensor being tits up have anything to do with spark?

http://tinyurl.com/5pjth

Yeah, we mentioned it in the other thread. You OK, Tim?

Originally posted by Ducking_Fumbass

Originally posted by tim97rs wait a second.. so BOTH the crank and cam sensors are run thru/connected to/have something to do with.. the speed sensor? would the speed sensor being tits up have anything to do with spark?

http://tinyurl.com/5pjth Yeah, we mentioned it in the other thread. You OK, Tim?

humph...well...i...uhm...uhhh....yea, i saw that! whata think... im blind... or something...? Sheesh! i was just testin you... of course i saw that....<leaves room quickly>

okay, checkin speed sensor on sunday. more to follow

This is how I felt when I was told my engine wouldn't run because of the coolant temp sensor :rolleyes

I spent 2 weeks kickin my ass with new injectors, iac, tps, map, iat, plugs, wires, ignition, o2.....come to find out it was that stupid ass coolant temp sensor