After contemplating going turbo or staying N/A, I recently decided to go the turbo path. After tearing into my car and spending a lot of money, I have grown to be curious of just how much Hp I could get out of my NA Eclipse staying at 2.0l. I have decided to stay all motor and keep it at 2Liters and try to get as much Hp as I can. Sure one day I will go turbo, but I just feel I need to spend more time reading and doing research and of course SAVE MORE MONEY. :-)
I posted a long time ago about going the N/A route and it got to be a pretty long post, but I am for sure going N/A. My last time at the track I pulled a 15.9 in the quarter and the run wasn't very great anyway. I just got the AF/X ECU in when I pulled that time. (also, that was in Boise Idaho where the altitude is a little high up there). Since I pulled the 15.9, I got crower stage 2's, ported and polished head, REV standard sized valves, Crower springs and Retainers, SBI rockers and lashers, and Fidanza Adjustable cam gears. So, I wonder what my time slip would have said after I did a run with that after-15.??. Well, as some of you may know, I am doing a full rebuild with a stage 3 Spec clutch, Howell Long rod bottom end kit, (whenever that gets here) Balance assembly and whatever else I forgot. Here's a list of my current mods

AEM V2 CAI, OBX Header (soon DC 4-2-1), Fagnablow Exhaust (soon Greddy Evo 2), OBX High flow cat, modern performance 60mm throttle body (soon 55mm TB) (also, the I am selling my 60mm if anyone turbo'd is interested) Ported and polished intake mani., AFX ECU, Short Shifter, ES shifter Bushings, ES Motor mounts, Ported and polsihed head w/crower 2's, valve springs and titanium retainers,SBI rockers and lashers, Fidanza asjustable cam gears and Here's looks for you:

Red Eclipse with Evo Carbon hood with red mesh in it, Shiney Black stock rims, Carbon 1' wing, carbon m3 mirrors, and stickers in black lettering with brand names.

Suspension:
AGX gas adjustable struts, Eibach coilovers, Strut tower bars, and Toyo Proxes.

Sorry for this being so long, but I thought I would just share my mods and plans with everyone, I hope to break into the 14's when I get my car finished in a month and a half, I don't think it's that unrealistic. I hope this brings some more light to the all motor fellas and encourages others to try it out. I know turbo will make you go really fast for your buck, but anyone can do that for a little money. How often do you see a N/A Eclipse in the 14's driving around? I decided to stay at 2.0 because that's what the car is stock, and I wanna see just how fast she'll go before turbo. I was also going to ask, I'm thinking of 10.5 compression with that AF/X ECU, I already have to put 93 octane in it at 9.6:1, do you think I could go 11:1?? What do you all think? Thanks for hearin me.
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.

all im going to say is this, it will not be easy at all to break into the 14s na. it has only been done once to my knowledge and that car no longer exists. ::brace yourself for possible flaming::

hope you like being slow.

If you dropping all the money with the rebuild kit and whatnot, why not skip the headwork and turbocharge? Have you driven a boosted 420a yet...it's a day and night comparison. To each his own though..good luck.

Some people don't realize that the 420a eclipse has been around for 10 years already and that this webpage has been around for about 7 years. Every serious 420a tuner has come and gone through this site and I've seen them all. Being on here for over 6 years, I can honestly say all motor 420a is just as expensive and it'll still be slow. SLOW! My advice for you powerlld, save yourself the agony and keep it as is, cuz it'll still be slow. Tuners like you, end up selling their eclipse for a honda when they realize, that cars with variable valve timing techonology is easier to make faster all motor. These days, if you're not turbo, you're not running with the boys on the streets.

Yea if your not turbo and pushing over 15 psi, your not running with people that are actually worth racing. Listen to everybody when they say boost your car. We know what we're talking about. This isn't our first rodeo

Well, like I said, I will someday, I was just curious to see what she did all motor ya know?? I didn't skimp on the headwork though, it's ported and polished. Is it that unreasonalble to boost with 10.5:1 compression? Like, if I pushed, say, 5-7lbs?? Wouldn't that be close to about 15 lbs at 8.8:1??? I just wanted to see how fast it could go all motor, I know it's not going to be really "fast", but for a N/A Eclipse it will be fast at 2.0. I havn't ever turbo'd before, but my brother has an Srt-4 and I love it. I just don't have the money for a turbo now, and if I go turbo, I want all the pieces of the pie and to eat it. I will not rist breaking what I have already invested so much of my money in. So, what do y'all think about 10.5:1 boosted? Is it unrealistic for someone who has never had a turbo?? What you do if you were me?? (besides the smart ass remarks) Thanks fellas.
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.

Well you never know, lol. I actually had some guy today bug me about my Eclipse cuz Im turbo'd, then he went to tell how he's pushing 320 hp's n/a. I just said "cool" and went on with my business, lol.

Good luck trying though!!

Originally posted by DJ420a
Well you never know, lol. I actually had some guy today bug me about my Eclipse cuz Im turbo'd, then he went to tell how he's pushing 320 hp's n/a. I just said "cool" and went on with my business, lol. Good luck trying though!!

Come on thats a prime time opportunity to rip him apart and make him wish he never learned to speak!

oh and to the guy who started this, just boost her. honestly you will be so much happier. I've already enjoyed one form of boost for a while, and now im switching to the other one. do you know why? because the nitrous is FUN AS HELL, but the turbo will be nearly the same power, all the time! :evilgrin

Take a look in the advanced tuning section to read about a person who did just what you want to do.

Well there are some here who are 10:5:1 (not me) that are going to be turbo soon. I would not try 11:1 on a turbo unless you really know what you are doing and have alot of $ for shit that will break. So unless you rebuild and run a 75 shot or somehting, yeah just save up for turbo kit.

How much less HP will come out of my car at 8.8:1 compared to 10.5:1 all motor before I go turbo?? What's the difference between 8.8:1 with 15lbs boost VS 10.5:1 with the same amount of boost to equal the HP of the 8.8:1 compression?? Wouldn't the turbo be more efficient at this compression? More HP w/less boost?? I'm just asking because I don't know, so let me know what it is that keeps everyone from doing this please. Will it be okay for me to putt around at 8.8:1 natrually aspirated?? Thanks for the input so far though fellas, I appreciate it.
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.

you will hate trying to tune 10.5:1 comp with boost on pump gas.

Originally posted by grain
you will hate trying to tune 10.5:1 comp with boost on pump gas.

He might, but it wasnt hard for me. Actually it was easy, lol.

Originally posted by powellds
How much less HP will come out of my car at 8.8:1 compared to 10.5:1 all motor before I go turbo?? What's the difference between 8.8:1 with 15lbs boost VS 10.5:1 with the same amount of boost to equal the HP of the 8.8:1 compression?? Wouldn't the turbo be more efficient at this compression? More HP w/less boost?? I'm just asking because I don't know, so let me know what it is that keeps everyone from doing this please. Will it be okay for me to putt around at 8.8:1 natrually aspirated?? Thanks for the input so far though fellas, I appreciate it. ~Jeffo Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.

you gotta figure out what you are going to do. if your going to do an all motor build up, you cant put 8.8:1 comp pistons in your car, that will counter nearly all of your NA mods. just go 8.8:1, turbo, and have a blast

My best is 15.3 (but that's without the proper cams). I MIGHT get there but it's a big 3/10ths. I think I'll at least get a tenth or two closer.

If you want to know what I've got, do a search for my mod list, sorry I don't feellike typing it today :(

Originally posted by powellds
How much less HP will come out of my car at 8.8:1 compared to 10.5:1 all motor before I go turbo?? What's the difference between 8.8:1 with 15lbs boost VS 10.5:1 with the same amount of boost to equal the HP of the 8.8:1 compression?? Wouldn't the turbo be more efficient at this compression? More HP w/less boost?? I'm just asking because I don't know, so let me know what it is that keeps everyone from doing this please. Will it be okay for me to putt around at 8.8:1 natrually aspirated?? Thanks for the input so far though fellas, I appreciate it. ~Jeffo Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.

If your really not sure where your gonna go i have one recommendation. Alot of people here feel this is not the best resort but alot of people have done it and not had a problem. I myself have done it and have no problems to date (im not turbo YET though). I bought 8.8:1 Je Pistons and so technically i have a low compression bottom end, but i had my head milled approx. 35 thousands and that would theoretically raise my compression up to the mid 9.3-4:1. Some say it's more but it's just a lil lower than stock. I don't notice a difference and honestly ask some guys from chicago and they have driven my car and it's much faster than stock. Having mid 9.x:1 compression will not be super hard to tune with if your going with quality tuning set up like MS or a standalone. If your sticking the old fashion way with a SFMU and all then i would just wait until you make up your mind. I felt that using a low comp bottom end with a replaceable head was my best choice since i knew i wasn't going turbo for quite some time. With the mods i have you don't notice a difference, hell to be honest my friend who owns a AWD TSI (used to own a stock GS-T) said my car was much faster than his gs-t. I hope that gives you an extra option and if you are willing to spend time on the Retiming of the engine and find the best settings with adj cam gears you will be fine with a milled head.

I don't think I'm the only one thinking this but you shouldn't have to ask these questions if You had ANY idea what you were doing.

And by trying to make power N/A, this proves my point.

:wary

EDIT: also by putting this in your "mods-list" shows you have no idea again....lol

Evo Carbon hood with red mesh in it(4hp), Shiney Black stock rims(1 hp), Carbon 1' wing (11 whp), carbon m3 mirrors (4whp), and stickers in black lettering with brand names(38 WHP).

haha

If you read all of my posts, I'm not looking for a 13 second NA car, I said I would be happy to break into the 14's NA. I know that I don't want to be 8.8:1 Natrually aspirated, becuase that's just plain dumb. I know what I'm doin(with the help of all of you), I'm just asking for input. About what to do. I'm thinking that I'm gonna be going 8.8:1 and save up for that turbo one day, I just wasn't sure on how it would be NA for the time being. Thanks for all the help though, I just had my head shaved 3 thousanths when I redid my head, so I'm thinking the compression will be a little higher than 8.8:1 anyhow. About MS, I know I could search, but has the UMS&S done yet? Thanks.
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.

Why don't you just save your money and buy a turbo. I mean, it's STILL GONNA be SLOW AFTER THE TURBO so, why waste your money.

Am I missing something here.

oH...yea....it's the POINT of this thread.

why waste your money on a 14 sec na car??????????

Take my advice,

Look at me mods list...
I am not slow, but not fast either, plus I face many tuning problems.

I strongly recommend going turbo, save the money, and get more bang for your buck. I am going to replace my pistons and go turbo soon.
Not because I want to, but I have other problems I won't get into here.

Take this advice as well, don't buy any of your parts from howellautomotive. You will have nothing but problems and will be lucky to get the right parts the first time.

Oh, BTW, you will be looking at ~150whp max. I dyno'd at 146, with minor issues still to be worked out.

thank you for your reply.

OMG....I think he'll see the light!

First of all, you DO have tuning problems, you should have quite a bit more HP than that if you have done those mods, I know for a fact that I have more than you're claiming. For 1, the O.S. 1mm valves were a waste of money and you lost power because you no long have the air velocity going into the head, and 2, the injectors are way too big, you should have stuck with your stock ones. I think either the car is tuned poorly, or there's jusdt something not put together right. (I think other people will agree with me on this.) Also, I know what I would be getting myself into if I were to go N/A, (why does everyone think I'm saying "I'm going to be the mostest fastest Eclipse in the world going N/A???" No, I'm sure I could get into the high 14's, but that's what the goal would be, not something rediculous or stupid for that matter. I AM GOING TURBO for the love of God, just not right now. I was just thinking about going 10.5:1 and then turboing, I was seeing who has done it, and if it was worth it, or to just go N/A with 8.8:1 until the turbo time was here. I originally posted thinking I was going to stay N/A, but changed my mind because I want to have a lot of power. Don't get me wrong, if I could have it my way, I would have a N/A 14 sec Eclipse in a heart beat, but to be smart about how I spend my money, it would be wise to turbo down the road and suffer a little until then with 8.8:1. Anyway, bzoss, you need to make sure everything is put together right and tuned right, I have seen Eclipe's in magazines and in real life that had less mods than you with more horsepower, something isn't right here. Well, thanks for the input everyone, I am always greatful to hear what everyone thinks whethere it's what I want to hear or not, it's good to hear both sides of the community. I'm looking at them turbo JE pistons and Eagle rods on Ebay for $734 so I won't have to wait a year for Howell to get around to sending them to me. I wanted the long rod kit, but it just isn't worth the wait. (I could be wrong, but from the sound of everyone, I don't think it's worth it. Thanks everyone.
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.

It's not that big of a deal to have 8.8:1 compression n/a. I've been driving around for a couple of months like this and I haven't noticed ANY difference at all from before. You lose/gain about 4% of your hp by going up or down 1 point in your compression. You won't even go down a full point from stock (-.8), so it would be like losing 5.6 hp from stock. Woopty doo basil.

Holy shit! Look at the vultures! Wasn't your original question about turbo'ing with 10.5s? Good to see ya balls up and stand your ground.
And WTF does "Woopty doo basil" mean? :P
MB

Originally posted by Blizare
thank you for your reply. OMG....I think he'll see the light!

NOPE! :P

Jesus, you guys. :rolleyes

Cut the "sell it and buy a turbo" shit. This is not DSMtuners. He's stated several times in this thread that he is going to fucking turbocharge one day. Some of you guys are talking out your asses like all you have to do is bolt up a kit and be fucking done with it. That's bullshit and you all know it. It doesn't matter if you want to boost it, squeeze it or just drive it. If you want to make any serious power, you have to rebuild it from top to bottom. I will agree that going all motor in the interest of "saving money" is a big mistake, as anyone in the know realizes that it's just the oppposite, but there is something to be said about doing things the old fashioned way by building the engine first, then getting into the power adders. It's what I did and it's probably the smartest way to go. Get the engine ready for anything first, then go for the mad numbers.

He's not saying he wants to build an all out, 13second NA 2GNT. He's saying he'd like to push the limits of what can be done since he's already pretty close to maxing out the NA mod path like I have done. Todd ran a 15.3 and Todd's a machine at the track. Daniel ran a 15 flat at the SO with similar mods as mine and slicks. The actual 2GNT is approaching being able to cross over into the 14s after all these years and all you guys want to do is down play it as not being signifigant? That's bullshit right there. Any dumbass can bolt up a kit from Bill or Star and run 14s. To get a normally aspirated 2GNT into the 14s, even if that only means 14.999 is something special. It goes back to why this site was created in the first place; to further the development of the 2GNT platform. With the ease of boosting these things in the last few years, some of you would talk like there is no other mod path to follow and that is sad. You were not always turbocharged. You may have goals of running 12s or better some day, and I think we all agree that's bad ass, but when someone is this close to doing something noteworthy for the community as a whole, I think it's a damn shame to see you all go native on his ass and downplay his plans because he's taking the path less trodden. Not to mention he said he's just delaying his turbo plans so he can play here at the limits of NA tuning. It's the same thing I've done. I will be boosting on 10.5:1CR with a MSnS installed and 400hp plans by summer. The only difference between my motor now and when it's turbocharged (besides the fact that it will actually be running again) will be the size of my injectors and the exhaust manifold. Very little else. It's all in the tuning, and this guy is learning about tuning these engines by putting in the wrench time and paying his NA dues. For that, he gets respect. For talking shit like a bunch of dooshbags, the rest of you get the :rolleyes You may be some smart mother fuckers, but to tell a guy on a NON TURBO website that there is no point in building his engine is ludicrous.



And bzoss or whatever. You may have a lot done to your car, but there are others here who have been talking with you that have put more to the ground than you are. You still have some work to do. You've got about 20whp to pull out of your ass before you can talk that game.

Dude, I figured you of all people would tell him to say screw the n/a shit and don't waste any more money on n/a bullshit. Who cares if your in an eclipse or a fucking pinto, a 14 is a 14. And a 14 is slow. He said he wanted a lot of power.

Keep your 60mm TB if your going turbo, sell the n/a bullshit for money to help fund either the rebuild or the boost. It would have been nice to see a n/a eclipse run a 14.9, but it'd be even nicer seeing one running a 10 w/ boost. Which one would you care about more?

Originally posted by WIDECLIPSE
Dude, I figured you of all people would tell him to say screw the n/a shit and don't waste any more money on n/a bullshit.

It would depend on his stated goals. If he said he wanted to make 300whp, there's no questions about it. You have to go turbo to do that. But considering how the only decision he has left to make is whether to get 8.8 or 10.5:1CR pistons, I think it's safe to say he can still do either and the cost, at this point anyways, is exactly the same. He's rebuilding the bottom end. Period. Doesn't matter turbo or not. What are you guys calling "N/A bullshit?" Headwork? Forged internals? A $60 header? IT'S ALL THE SAME.

Originally posted by WIDECLIPSE
Who cares if your in an eclipse or a fucking pinto, a 14 is a 14. And a 14 is slow.

A high CR N/A car will hand a 20G its ass all day long in heavy traffic or on a circuit with a lot of slow turns. And quartermile isn't everything. Some people like to turn the wheel too. ETs don't mean shit to some people.

Originally posted by WIDECLIPSE
He said he wanted a lot of power.

He also said he IS going to turbocharge... just not right after he rebuilds. There's no need to sell someone on boosting when they've already made the decision to do so.

Originally posted by WIDECLIPSE
Keep your 60mm TB if your going turbo, sell the n/a bullshit for money to help fund either the rebuild or the boost.

Again. Please list the "n/a bullshit." And I say, toss the 60mm and just get a new one when you need it. Put the funds to use when you need them... now.

Originally posted by WIDECLIPSE
It would have been nice to see a n/a eclipse run a 14.9, but it'd be even nicer seeing one running a 10 w/ boost. Which one would you care about more?

14.9 any day of the week. 2GNTs have been everywhere down to the 10 second range by now. Might even see one in the 9's this year. There has yet to be a daily driveable 2GNT in the 14s. all motor 14s > boosted 10s.

Powell, get the 10.5:1 CR you can boost on it. Don't worry about what people who haven't tried it will tell you is wrong with it. Better to make more power on less psi. Get a MSnS and tune it right and you'll be good to go. Boosting on less than stock CR is lazy imo. Build it how you want, and if something breaks, you'll fix it at that time. Isn't that the way we always do it anyways?

Humm, interesting.....

Ok what i want to know, that i have yet to see, is what would be the difference in power, BOOSTED, between 10.5 and 8.8 CR? Would it be large enough to make it worthwhile on less PSI despite the hassles? I ask because im considering keeeping the stock compression when i boost for that reason, but then again its going to depend on HOW MUCH it's going to be worth my while....

Originally posted by ShadowWulf
Humm, interesting..... Ok what i want to know, that i have yet to see, is what would be the difference in power, BOOSTED, between 10.5 and 8.8 CR? Would it be large enough to make it worthwhile on less PSI despite the hassles? I ask because im considering keeeping the stock compression when i boost for that reason, but then again its going to depend on HOW MUCH it's going to be worth my while....

This is a pointless question, imo. The appeal isn't in the power difference when in boost, but before you get there. Higher CR is said to allow faster spool up and require less boost to make the same power. I don't know if the standard 4% rule still applies when boosting, but if it did, you can be sure the difference isn't really that much. It will no doubt be harder to tune on pump gas, but nothing really good is ever easy, is it? This question starts getting this thread into bench racing, which is gay and frowned upon. Do your homework on which set up you would like to go with and do it. I'm sticking with 10.5:1CR for my own reasons and it doesn't matter what the difference is between the two. Your primary concern is the level of tuning a high-comp boosted engine will require, not the final output numbers.

I really like having my "higher than stock compression" launch and then boost kicks in. Like ^^^^ said, do you homework, see what will fit you best and go from there. All in all good luck.

Amen brother, I think you about covered it. I thank you. I'm still having the delema of whether to buy the 8.8:1 pistons or the 10.5:1 pistons for later when I go turbo. I havn't ever boosted, but I have built my car from the ground up, so, I just don't know what I might be getting myself into at 10.5:1 with a turbo. I'm thinking just because it's my first time turboing, I'm not going to want 10.5:1 just because I just havn't learned what is needed to tune properly. I'm not someone who wants to act like I know more than I do, but I know what I know and am sure of myself to be able to learn more. Hell, this website taught me so much about my car just in the past year it's unbelievable. About the comments though, I think that half of the problem is so many people coming in here acting like they are going to be big time with going N/A and not knowing too much about what makes our cars tick, that is kinda annoying. But when someone wants to do something that not everyone agrees with, is it neccisary to totally bash on them just because YOU think it's not something that YOU would want to waste your time with?? Thanks for everything though, I'm not trying to bash either, but, we can all be cool about what we are all doing and deal with the fact that it's not going to be the exact same thing. Anyway, only $3000 more to go. :wallbash
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them, well, after I get my turbo.

I am definetly turboing my car but I need to save up, Im planning on getting a HAHN Stage 2 Turbo Kit :D

Don't wanna beat a dead horse but I support his effort to go N/A I am going to do the same it will be a challenge but it will be fun to see it go quicker.
He will be able to beat a few guys mabey not some guy with balls under the hood but he will be able to beat a few so you guys need to lighten up!
You guys rag N/A guys don't know why but to each his own so what the car will not be able to hit 13's but 14-15's ain't too bad let m get this straight, I go out put a turbo on then gotta do up keep on the thing all the time??? Naaaa not me I can live with a quick car it don't hurt my pride becuse at this time I know sombody will always be faster than whatever I buy or mod, If I turbo a VET or some other car can still beat me so what's the point?
Hay the guy want's to do his different and we should all back him mabey he'll get somthing done we never thought of and we can learn from it.
I gotta do it do to Calif. and being upside down n my car so it's a matter of principal besides like I said I save money then I buy an 08 whatever and I get the last laugh becuse you know it will more than likely be faster and better looking than a 99 anyway!
My 2 cents!!! :)
Hay dude HC pistons are what you want to get your car in te 14-15 second range like 10.5.1 and above.
Oh one other thing ain't this site about Non Turb cars and or mods?
At least the name seem to say that to me...

Anyone who says they want the challenge of making an NA car fast just doesn't have money and thats just the excuse.

Originally posted by Blizare
Anyone who says they want the challenge of making an NA car fast just doesn't have money and thats just the excuse.

You think your turbo car can out-run my NA car?

hehe. ummm.........

No neither probably would but come now, lets not get into this THAT far.

With about 1k, the Silvia would def run less than a 13 so. Best to date being a 13.8 ........The talon needs a few MORE grand to get there :P

Originally posted by Blizare
hehe. ummm......... No neither probably would but come now, lets not get into this THAT far. With about 1k, the Silvia would def run less than a 13 so. Best to date being a 13.8 ........The talon needs a few MORE grand to get there :P

I started out in the 16.60's with my cougar. It was a terrible sight, but it had 140k miles on a pushrod, 30-year old, 2-barrel v8.

I think I've got probably 10k in the car so far, but that's after a stock rebuild, then a mild performance rebuild, then another rebuild. Not to mention I'm on my 3rd tranny, 1 of which I went through 4 valve bodies & 2 governers. I've had it for over 10 years, though.

Now I finally pulled off a 12.06.

My bone-stock mustang should give you a good run, but I'd be lucky to pull off a 13.8. I'm guessing it'll run around a 14 flat.

I'm still proud of my 15.26 all natural in my 2gnt.

I'm just tired of the 'you need a turbo to go fast' posts.

Originally posted by cougar694u
I'm just tired of the 'you need a turbo to go fast' posts.

Okay.

You need a turbo to go fast in a 4 cyl.

Is that better :shrug :)

Originally posted by fullmoon
A Non Turbo Eclipse is more about pride and determination to acheive the maximum result

I didn't even read anymore after this part.

You go get ur pride and 15 sec timeslip. I don't care. Really.

I just don't give a shit. :)

Anyone who says they want the challenge of making an NA car fast just doesn't have money and thats just the excuse."

_______________________________________


That's where ya wrong, It takes far more cash to hit the 14sec range in an Eclipse than it takes to get 12-13sec because slaping a turbo on is cheeper(I saw a site over at MSN some guy turboed his Eclipse for "$600.00" them things are cheap if you know what you are doing).
A Non Turbo Eclipse is more about pride and determination to acheive the maximum result, which of corse may never ever be the same as a turbo unless some break through in tecnology or sheer luck comes along which I don't think will happen in the area of power, fule milage yes but power far above present levels set today where a long road to travel but we got what we have today because of guys like us N/A guys and that's the most important thing :)
Yes I have the cash and or the ability to get more but I'm saving my good name and extra cash for a home on the range
To me it's exciting when you talk to old guys who used to drag race back in the good ol days and the War Stories they tell ya about the straight motor did this and or that it just makes me that more determined to go N/A just thinking about the challenge tickles me to death :)
Price wise including a full N/a rebuild mabey $4-5,000 tops I have talked to a guy that runs a shop and he dynoed a N/A street monster Eclipse at 225-235hp to the ground no joke!!!
But it would not pass a California Smog test if you had a million in cold hard cash that is unless you bribed the smog test man.
It cost that guy I think 5,000+ and it did have a lumpy idle I'm sure but at 225-235hp N/A who cares???
I spoke to an old country hand he told me how to cheat the tail pipe test so easy so slick I shoulda though of it a long time ago!
All I'm say'n is guys ya gotta get off this thing about turbos being the god of all modifications (Some of you guys want to do things too easy) some of these guys are thinking outside the box and you guys need to pat on the back instead of stabb'n em in the back.
I'm not sayin suger coat the truth but instead nudge em along, what are you turbo guys scared that a N/A guy is gonna rain on your parade from a red light??? :)

Originally posted by fullmoon
what are you turbo guys scared that a N/A guy is gonna rain on your parade from a red light??? :)

Okay I lied.....I kept reading....

But a 225 whp n/a eclipse is NOT a monster. hehe

You've GOT to be kidding me.

Holy shizzle, I remember this post, by the way, I am almost done turboing my car. lol. I wish I had gone all motor like I said before, I wouldn't be such a broke ass right now. I am going to be anywhere from 280-325whp depending on what I decide on. I want to see some more all motor 420a Eclipse's for sure though.





For Sale: Brand new Greddy Type RS BOV. ~$155 shipped.

Originally posted by powellds
Holy shizzle, I remember this post, by the way, I am almost done turboing my car. lol. I wish I had gone all motor like I said before, I wouldn't be such a broke ass right now. I am going to be anywhere from 280-325whp depending on what I decide on. I want to see some more all motor 420a Eclipse's for sure though. For Sale: Brand new Greddy Type RS BOV. ~$155 shipped.

Well I'm the guy to keep an eye on I'll let you guys know what I the end result turns out to be.
Ain't no school like the old school :)

Originally posted by fullmoon

Originally posted by powellds Holy shizzle, I remember this post, by the way, I am almost done turboing my car. lol. I wish I had gone all motor like I said before, I wouldn't be such a broke ass right now. I am going to be anywhere from 280-325whp depending on what I decide on. I want to see some more all motor 420a Eclipse's for sure though. For Sale: Brand new Greddy Type RS BOV. ~$155 shipped.

Well I'm the guy to keep an eye on I'll let you guys know what I the end result turns out to be. Ain't no school like the old school :)

Sorry if I bug anyone with this repost but I had to add this quote that I think best sums up the guys with guts like me who have made the choice to stay N/A.... :)

"The measure of a man is what happens when nothing works and you got the guts to go on."

-- Tex Cobb, boxer and actor.

Originally posted by powellds
Holy shizzle, I remember this post, by the way, I am almost done turboing my car. lol. I wish I had gone all motor like I said before, I wouldn't be such a broke ass right now. I am going to be anywhere from 280-325whp depending on what I decide on. I want to see some more all motor 420a Eclipse's for sure though. For Sale: Brand new Greddy Type RS BOV. ~$155 shipped.

JeffO, you're still around but in the form of a turbo eh? Tell me, did you ever get any numbers (i.e. dyno or strip) before you went the turbo route?
MB

"But a 225 whp n/a eclipse is NOT a monster. hehe"
Aaaaa but for an eclipse to put that to the ground while NOT running turbo is no walk in the park therefore IMO I would hafta say it is for the class it was designed to be/stay in.
You know the manufactures/designers would have really wanted you to spend as much cash with them instead of joes speed shop so the N/A was not intended to be a monster but instead a quick car.
You just know when Dodge and Mitsu decided to hook up together to do biz they saw the conflict of intrest and worked hard to get GS-T and the GS/RS as far apart in terms of power output from the time it left the plant till the time you after you paid it off and went over to joes shop ad beyond in other words they looked wayyy down the pike when they put these puppies together and knew what you could sqweeze out of these little cars however Chrysler had it's rep on the line so they let you get something for your investment but not as much as the GST just like you guys say "Shoulda bought a GS-T if ya wanted go fast":)
Yes you can get very good performance from the GS/RS if you put a turbo on it I'll agree 110% however there is something to be said about N/A that can crack the 200whp limit, while it may not be it may not be the big bad wolf it would be a wolf in sheeps clothing none the less besides there will always somebody bigger badder than you I don't care if you turbo or not you just hafta choose your street fights very carefully when you run N/A as a matter of fact not all street fighters run turbo anyway:)
Also the fact I live in the west coast Comme Smog State "Gag" that presents another challenge so the road for me has land mines but I can manuver it very carefully if I plot my coarse correctly and still come out on top.
From my veiw point it's not so much about "all the power" I could sqweeze out of a 420a with a turbo but "being from the old school" its the pride of tell'n the nay sayers "Yes it can be done, mabey at a price but it can be done"

Originally posted by fullmoon
"But a 225 whp n/a eclipse is NOT a monster. hehe" Aaaaa but for an eclipse to put that to the ground while NOT running turbo is no walk in the park therefore IMO I would hafta say it is for the class it was designed to be/stay in. You know the manufactures/designers would have really wanted you to spend as much cash with them instead of joes speed shop so the N/A was not intended to be a monster but instead a quick car. You just know when Dodge and Mitsu decided to hook up together to do biz they saw the conflict of intrest and worked hard to get GS-T and the GS/RS as far apart in terms of power output from the time it left the plant till the time you after you paid it off and went over to joes shop ad beyond in other words they looked wayyy down the pike when they put these puppies together and knew what you could sqweeze out of these little cars however Chrysler had it's rep on the line so they let you get something for your investment but not as much as the GST just like you guys say "Shoulda bought a GS-T if ya wanted go fast":) Yes you can get very good performance from the GS/RS if you put a turbo on it I'll agree 110% however there is something to be said about N/A that can crack the 200whp limit, while it may not be it may not be the big bad wolf it would be a wolf in sheeps clothing none the less besides there will always somebody bigger badder than you I don't care if you turbo or not you just hafta choose your street fights very carefully when you run N/A as a matter of fact not all street fighters run turbo anyway:) Also the fact I live in the west coast Comme Smog State "Gag" that presents another challenge so the road for me has land mines but I can manuver it very carefully if I plot my coarse correctly and still come out on top. From my veiw point it's not so much about "all the power" I could sqweeze out of a 420a with a turbo but "being from the old school" its the pride of tell'n the nay sayers "Yes it can be done, mabey at a price but it can be done"

Ok guys I'm gonna eat a little crow no problem I got the salt and the pepper :)
I did a bit more reserch and it seems that I may hafta settle for around 150whp if I expect to stay smog legal that little 420a may bit more of a challenge than I care to handle so after reviewing these two pages
http://importtuner.com/powerpages/0202it_ppeclipse/ http://importtuner.com/powerpages/0204it_ppeclipse/
I'll just be happy to get at least 150whp after a port polish and some kind of computor mod mabey just a stand alone (Which these guys did not add on to the test car) it will not be much of a monster rocket but it should still hold it's own, while not 200whp it's still far better than 117whp stock :)
If I get more all the better but if she only does 150whp I won't be mad at her wish me luck!:)

Originally posted by fullmoon
I'll just be happy to get at least 150whp after a port polish and some kind of computor mod mabey just a stand alone (Which these guys did not add on to the test car) it will not be much of a monster rocket but it should still hold it's own, while not 200whp it's still far better than 117whp stock :) If I get more all the better but if she only does 150whp I won't be mad at her wish me luck!:)

Grammar is a good thing.

Also, this setup put down 159.3 hp & 142.3 ft lbs of torque:

JE 10.6:1 pistons
eagle rods
ported head and intake manifold
5 angle valve job
upgraded rocker arms
Crower stage 2 cams
aem cam gears
milled block and head
bored to .20 over.
55mm TB
n1 muffler
pacesetter header
test pipe
24lb. accel injectors
SAFCII
Msd ignition with wires and coil with iridium plugs

So that gives you an idea of what you want to achieve your 150 whp goal.

Originally posted by cougar694u
this setup put down 159.3 hp & 142.3 ft lbs of torque:

Sounds like Daniel's set up, but I think he was running a 3 angle. Who was this?

Originally posted by cougar694u
JE 10.6:1 pistons/eagle rods

Check. (10.5 is close enough...)

Originally posted by cougar694u
ported head and intake manifold

Check.

Originally posted by cougar694u
5 angle valve job

Check.

Originally posted by cougar694u
upgraded rocker arms

Check. (Pretty sure the lifters were there too, right?)

Originally posted by cougar694u
Crower stage 2 cams

Check.

Originally posted by cougar694u
aem cam gears

No check. (Bought a set of Fidanzas from EclipsedChef, but he bailed with the money. Fucking thief.)
Will be buying a set with the upcoming cam upgrade.

Originally posted by cougar694u
milled block and head bored to .20 over.

Check. Balanced to 10,000rpm just in case. ;)

Originally posted by cougar694u
55mm TB

Check. (57mm, if that makes any difference.)

Originally posted by cougar694u
n1 muffler

Check. (Greddy Evo ready to install when I'm not so lazy.)

Originally posted by cougar694u
pacesetter header

Check. (Only one I would recommend.)

Originally posted by cougar694u
test pipe

Check.

Originally posted by cougar694u
24lb. accel injectors

Running stock until I see need for more fuel on the Zt-2.

Originally posted by cougar694u
SAFCII

MSnS to be installed, again, when I'm not so lazy.

Originally posted by cougar694u
Msd ignition with wires and coil with iridium plugs

Check. Currently waiting for the Screamin' Demon and Crane Firewires from Bitchhands to arrive. ;)

Originally posted by cougar694u
So that gives you an idea of what you want to achieve your 150 whp goal.

Given more tunability than with an SAFC and a special set of cams, I'm sticking with a goal of 180whp. I'll be sure to document it so it doesn't sound sketchy like the rest of the "I know a guy who owns a shop who told me that he did Xwhp." That, and I'll be continuing to set my sights on Todd... in my rearview mirror this year.

Originally posted by DR1665
whooooo hooo 180 whp

And your going to be happy with that? I sure as hell wouldn't be :P

After all that work your still going to goto the track and run a 15 sec 1/4.

But if that makes you smile. good. Thats all that matters right.

I bet daisy will sound like a pissed off banshee at 7k rpms though :) :)

Originally posted by Blizare
And your (sic) going to be happy with that? I sure as hell wouldn't be :P After all that work your (sic) still going to goto the track and run a 15 sec 1/4.

Hell yes, I will be happy with that and here's why.

How many turbocharged DSMs are there out there making 180whp? Assuming they run, I'd venture to say a good 90% of them or more. Now, how many all motor DSMs are there out there putting that to the wheels? That we know of on this forum, which is basically the authority on the subject, none.

Unless you're strapped into something made by NASA, there is always going to be someone with a faster ride than you have. If you have to be the fastest car on the street, then this isn't a smart move. If you want to be the fastest, most powerful of your kind, it's genius. Just like how a 500whp Supra is cool, but you already know in your mind that there are more powerful Supras. Even the guy with the 10 second 1G DSM knows, in the back of his mind, that Shep is faster. If I crack off just a 14.999 E.T., I will be pretty much the NA equivalent to Shep.

Now, I know what you're thinking, "He's comparing himself to Shep, now?" Yes, but I'm not saying I'm even remotely as skilled or experienced as he is. I'm just saying that, no matter how much boost you run, you KNOW there is someone out there who makes more ponies than you do. If I break 180whp, I will know that I have set the new standard. So yeah, woooo hooo is fucking a right, Blizznuts.

It's not so much about how fast or powerful she will be when I'm done, but what she will stand for. Daisy stands for every 2GNTer out there who will never turbocharge his car, but loves it all the same. She shows up in slightly worn out condition with dings, dents and rattles because her real beauty is on the inside. Where it really counts. She is that car that newbies will talk about when someone comes to the forum and claims they put down Xwhp with Y mods or ran Z seconds in the quarter. She hasn't done shit to prove any of it yet, but that doesn't mean she never will. I KNOW what my goals are for Daisy. I'm going to achieve them and then guess what. I'm setting new ones. Those goals where you challenge your own limits superceed those which challenge the accomplishments of others.

Originally posted by Blizare
I bet daisy will sound like a pissed off banshee at 7k rpms though.

Try 9,000rpm.

Originally posted by Blizare I bet daisy will sound like a pissed off banshee at 7k rpms though.

Try 9,000rpm.


mmm 9K redline will be nice Driggs. As long as it makes power all the way to redline though.

It won't be cheaper going NA, like everyone else has said, but it's different so I respect that. I don't understand why the turbo guys are saying it's a waste of $ and it's pointless when you could also say that it's pointless to turbo a 2gnt. For less $ you could just get a 1G or even a 2G 4G63, since they are getting so cheap now. I think him staying NA instead of going turbo would be the same as not getting a turbo car and turbo'ing your NA car. Just my 2 cents.
-Dave

Originally posted by DR1665
I will know that I have set the new standard.

Congratufuckinlations. I thought this was supposed to be done 3 years ago. :shrug

I already said I rightfully could give a shit how you go about getting your 180whp. But just do us all a favour and post a fucking dyno sheet or something. Something to do with the fact that your the reason why I have deej' "pending Modifications" pic in my sig.

Fuck pending mods, show me what you got right now.

Originally posted by Blizare
Congratufuckinlations. I thought this was supposed to be done 3 years ago. :shrug I already said I rightfully could give a shit how you go about getting your 180whp. But just do us all a favour and post a fucking dyno sheet or something. Something to do with the fact that your the reason why I have deej' "pending Modifications" pic in my sig. Fuck pending mods, show me what you got right now.

Oh snap!

Touche. You're absolutely right. I'll get under the couch this weekend and see how much change I can scrape up for dyno time... :P


EDIT:
This couldn't have been three years ago, as the first rebuild is only two and a half years ago, but I appreciate someone finally coming out and saying something. I know there has been some shit being talked when I'm not around, but never seen anyone actually say something about it. :P

I'll have something to show for all this and soon enough...

heh i know im kind of a new guy here but i always thought your car was the fastest n/a and this post just made me realize that there's absolutely no proof of it, not that i don't believe you but once you get to a dyno that just write it out plain and simple to everyone that you are the fastest n/a stock displacement 420a eclipse/talon out there, keep it up. I want to see it break 180whp or more and get down the track in less than 15 seconds

Originally posted by BlackMagic
heh i know im kind of a new guy here but i always thought your car was the fastest n/a and this post just made me realize that there's absolutely no proof of it, not that i don't believe you but once you get to a dyno that just write it out plain and simple to everyone that you are the fastest n/a stock displacement 420a eclipse/talon out there, keep it up. I want to see it break 180whp or more and get down the track in less than 15 seconds

Daniel (the guy's setup listed above) ran 15-flat at the shootout a few years go. I ran a 15.26 and everyone talked shit saying it couldn't have been done, so I posted my time-slip. There were a few other people around in that area also. I think there was even one in the 14's, I remember something about it, but it's vague.

No offense Brian, but the first several times down the track probably won't beat the 15 mark, and would probably be closer to 15.25-15.50 mark. Once you learn the track, the launch, etc, I think you can get to a 15-flat.

I think I have the setup to do it, but you know what, I don't care anymore. That 2gnt in the driveway is a down payment on a house to me now. Once it's running & broke-in, it's gone. Once I'm in the house, I may get another 2gnt, but only time will tell.

And you know, it's not that hard to get to the track and run. What are you afraid of?

Originally posted by cougar694u
Daniel (the guy's setup listed above) ran 15-flat at the shootout a few years go.

2004. I was there and talked to the guy about his set up and all that. Just another reason why I'm so confident. I've seen someone else using nearly an identical set up with excellent results. (I need to get some slicks for my 14s!)

Originally posted by cougar694u
I ran a 15.26 and everyone talked shit saying it couldn't have been done, so I posted my time-slip.

I think I remember this too, although it was some time ago, am I right? I'm not out here claiming times or HP numbers. I'm just stating my goals. I don't see them as being unrealistic at all and, while I'm still not done with the car and not in a any hurry to get dyno numbers until the engine is done, I guess it wouldn't hurt to make a couple runs now anyways. :shrug

Originally posted by cougar694u
I think there was even one in the 14's, I remember something about it, but it's vague.

Billymack. He's a Canadian guy that did something to his tranny to drastically lower his gearing. He ran a 14.6 (according to DSMTimes.org), but has since parted out the car and bought a SRT4. Sure, it's something to aim for, but the car doesn't even exist, so I don't necessarily concern myself with it.

Originally posted by cougar694u
No offense Brian, but the first several times down the track probably won't beat the 15 mark, and would probably be closer to 15.25-15.50 mark. Once you learn the track, the launch, etc, I think you can get to a 15-flat.

None taken, sir. I don't expect to just start at that level. For the longest time, I could not run at the track due to a giant crack in my windshield. In fact, I have had the crack in the windshield longer than I have been on this forum. It was more important for me to rebuild the engine. It was more important for me to get that race head done. It was more important for me to get the engine rebuilt again. The windshield is replaced now, but the HG is leaking big time. (1qt:400mi) The entire bottom of the car is covered in sludge and it drips oil all over the place. I dunno if I would pass tech, but I'm all for giving it a shot ASAP. I'll need all the practice I can get between now and August.

I'm not afraid of running at the track at all. I just always have something else come up that I have to spend the money on. Would you want to spend $25 to run at the track and $75 at the dyno when you need to replace your head gasket? With a blown HG and nearly stock compression numbers, I'm not going to be able to get the most out of my engine, so dyno time just feels like a waste of money until the engine is done. I'm not losing enough power (I hope) that it would make practicing my launch right now a bad idea, but the power goal is the one I'm going after the most. I mean, Todd's a machine. I'm totally hoping my technology levels the playing field a bit, but if it doesn't (and it likely won't), I've said numerous times that I would hand Todd the key if he wanted to give it a shot.

Originally posted by BlackMagic heh i know im kind of a new guy here but i always thought your car was the fastest n/a and this post just made me realize that there's absolutely no proof of it, not that i don't believe you but once you get to a dyno that just write it out plain and simple to everyone that you are the fastest n/a stock displacement 420a eclipse/talon out there, keep it up. I want to see it break 180whp or more and get down the track in less than 15 seconds

This is exactly right. There is no proof of what MY car can do, but there is proof of what other cars can do with nearly the same mods. Daniel put 159 to the wheels with a 3angle, stock ECU, and cam gears. I've got a 5angle, MSnS, and no cam gears. Pending modifications my ass. I've already either had the work done (engine built), received the part (MSnS), or bought the parts (cam gears).

Maybe I'm fooling myself, but it's not like I'm some random kid with an intake and exhaust, talking about plans to go all motor next winter, when I've saved a lot of money working over the summer at my dad's lumber yard. I've been dropping more money than I had into this bitch for over two years now and I've been very careful with what I've said about it. My goals are my own and I think very reasonable. They are higher than we've seen thus far in the all motor 2GNT community, but not so high that one couldn't have reason to expect them. I am pushing myself to achieve them.

Had I not bought another "DSM" last month, I would have Daisy's engine 100% complete today. I wanted to get something classy that I could leave stock for a daily driver. That's right. I bought a turbocharged, AWD "DSM" and I'm leaving it stock while I make Daisy a full on track slut. Those who know me well know that I have long joked about buying a turbo "DSM" to leave stock while I work on the 2GNT. Now I have.

So now my little secret is out, I guess. I know there are people on this forum that are keeping their mouths shut out of respect for me and all the bullshit I have gone through with this car over the past couple years, and I appreciate that. I'm sorry if my excitement about my car being damn near complete comes out from time to time. I've been through hell and back with this car. I've even posted about reverting her to stock and quitting the game as recently as this past April, but I've been encouraged to stick with it and now I'm on the cusp of doing great things in my community. Liken my overzealousness to a child asking, "Are we there yet?" There are a lot of people on this board who love their cars, but I highly doubt there are many who are as obsessed with them as I am. We are a different breed than the rest of you. We don't think the same way.

And no, I'm not bitching at anyone (Blaire). I'm just extremely excited to be where I am with the car and. I have no pending modifications whatsoever. Pending installations maybe, but not modifications. I have possible and probable modifications, but the only way anything about my car is pending right now is because it's on its way.

I'll see if I can't get on the dyno next month after I've moved.

Originally posted by DR1665
I just always have something else come up that I have to spend the money on. Would you want to spend $25 to run at the track and $75 at the dyno when you need to replace your head gasket?

I completely understand, but if we got 15 people to send you $5 each, that'd be the $75 needed to make a pull.

Originally posted by DR1665
Daniel put 159 to the wheels with a 3angle, stock ECU, and cam gears.

He posted that he had a 5-angle valve job, not 3, & an SAFCII. I know the AFC isn't much, but it's better than nothing. True, it doesn't compare to the MSnS that isn't installed on your car yet.

Originally posted by DR1665
I know there are people on this forum that are keeping their mouths shut out of respect for me and all the bullshit I have gone through with this car over the past couple years, and I appreciate that.

Again, I'm not talking shit about you, or to you. I just wanna see what it can do, and how close to your goal you actually are.

As your cam's overlap increases, your compression goes down. Hell, my 11.5:1 motor only puts out 190-210, and my dad seems to believe it's 12.5:1.

Are you sure it's not your bed-plate leaking? This happened to me and there was oil all over the entire underside of my car.

"while I make Daisy a full on track slut"


i was just wondering if your only plans are n/a for a total track car or once u achieve your goal of 14's n/a if u're going to try another route, like turbo or nitrous? just curious, i remember there being talk about maybe going turbo but then u decided not to so just curious.

Originally posted by cougar694u

Originally posted by fullmoon I'll just be happy to get at least 150whp after a port polish and some kind of computor mod mabey just a stand alone (Which these guys did not add on to the test car) it will not be much of a monster rocket but it should still hold it's own, while not 200whp it's still far better than 117whp stock :) If I get more all the better but if she only does 150whp I won't be mad at her wish me luck!:)

Grammar is a good thing. Also, this setup put down 159.3 hp & 142.3 ft lbs of torque: JE 10.6:1 pistons eagle rods ported head and intake manifold 5 angle valve job upgraded rocker arms Crower stage 2 cams aem cam gears milled block and head bored to .20 over. 55mm TB n1 muffler pacesetter header test pipe 24lb. accel injectors SAFCII Msd ignition with wires and coil with iridium plugs So that gives you an idea of what you want to achieve your 150 whp goal.

Sorry smog police got me by the cahooonas so I can't use the cams and the pistons, thanx all information is greatly appreciated :)

But everything else looks good also going to try the Venom chip I called em up and they seemed like they knew what they were talking about (extra 20-25hp) so in some since I gotta do a little cheet'n but what the hell so are the smog gastapo!

Shop man said I gotta be carefull of the port polish and not go too far with it as it changes air flow so it might trip up the smog machine so I just may stick to porting everthing to the max, I read on a 2gnt page I could do that with no problem and still pass but anything like cams pistons and i'd fail the smog in other words raise the compression and I might hafta raise my car out of
California or put it back to factory specs.

Gotta use a Magna Flow cat I got the muffler these guys use creepers on the side of the road!

I'm going with the sleeper look so I'm just going behind the left quarter panel and open the hole up bigger along with a free flow air filter, for some strange reason my car was quicker with the stock box??? Hummm???

I got bosh 4 prong plugs I got tq like you would'nt belive and trust me I know when I can pull a hill been drive'n these riggs long enough :)

I'll try slighly bigger injectors along with a high flow fule pump too and I may be close to 150hp I let you guys know in may what I come up with....Say a Prayer for me, Please!!! :)

Originally posted by fullmoon
going to try the Venom chip I called em up and they seemed like they knew what they were talking about

Originally posted by fullmoon
I got bosh 4 prong plugs I got tq like you would'nt belive and trust me I know when I can pull a hill

Originally posted by fullmoon
I'll try slighly bigger injectors along with a high flow fule pump too and I may be close to 150hp

Originally posted by fullmoon
Say a Prayer for me, Please!!! :)

Three strikes. You're out.

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by fullmoon going to try the Venom chip I called em up and they seemed like they knew what they were talking about

Originally posted by fullmoon I got bosh 4 prong plugs I got tq like you would'nt belive and trust me I know when I can pull a hill

Originally posted by fullmoon I'll try slighly bigger injectors along with a high flow fule pump too and I may be close to 150hp

Originally posted by fullmoon Say a Prayer for me, Please!!! :)

Three strikes. You're out.

No shit. Don't do any of that to your poor car :P

You're not really going to have to do anything to the fuel system at all if you're N/A bro. Maybe just buy some good injectors that have been measured equally, but that's about it, you don't need any bigger injectors, even if you do need bigger one's they aren'y going to be that much bigger.





F.S. Brand new Greddy Type RS BOV. $155 Shipped.

Originally posted by Blizare

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by fullmoon going to try the Venom chip I called em up and they seemed like they knew what they were talking about

Originally posted by fullmoon I got bosh 4 prong plugs I got tq like you would'nt belive and trust me I know when I can pull a hill

Originally posted by fullmoon I'll try slighly bigger injectors along with a high flow fule pump too and I may be close to 150hp

Originally posted by fullmoon Say a Prayer for me, Please!!! :)

Three strikes. You're out.

No shit. Don't do any of that to your poor car :P

Poor guy... :shrug

Originally posted by saikou

Originally posted by Blizare

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by fullmoon going to try the Venom chip I called em up and they seemed like they knew what they were talking about

Originally posted by fullmoon I got bosh 4 prong plugs I got tq like you would'nt belive and trust me I know when I can pull a hill

Originally posted by fullmoon I'll try slighly bigger injectors along with a high flow fule pump too and I may be close to 150hp

Originally posted by fullmoon Say a Prayer for me, Please!!! :)

Three strikes. You're out.

No shit. Don't do any of that to your poor car :P

Poor guy... :shrug

Hehehehe!!! You guys r a trip!!! Ok I skip the injectors/fule pump but I did call jet the company that reprograms DSM etc and they told me 400 and they would do my computor in less than 4-5 hrs and I'd get an extra 11hp...WOW!
I been all over net and the Venom gives us poor ol N/A DSM'ers 25hp if ya got an auto and seems safe to computor to boot.
I'm getting the rest of my bolt-ons over the next two months and I may port (No Polish) in may.
With all the research I have done and up against the smog laws in Calif. I have limited options...Dang it!!! I knew I shoulda got a Trans Am!!!

I can't do much else but get a ton of Nitro but that's no fun because it cost sooo much It's almost like paying for gas twice IMO.

I'll figure out somthing else to do to her hopefully soon...

Originally posted by fullmoon

Originally posted by saikou

Originally posted by Blizare

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by fullmoon going to try the Venom chip I called em up and they seemed like they knew what they were talking about

Originally posted by fullmoon I got bosh 4 prong plugs I got tq like you would'nt belive and trust me I know when I can pull a hill

Originally posted by fullmoon I'll try slighly bigger injectors along with a high flow fule pump too and I may be close to 150hp

Originally posted by fullmoon Say a Prayer for me, Please!!! :)

Three strikes. You're out.

No shit. Don't do any of that to your poor car :P

Poor guy... :shrug

Hehehehe!!! You guys r a trip!!! Ok I skip the injectors/fule pump but I did call jet the company that reprograms DSM etc and they told me 400 and they would do my computor in less than 4-5 hrs and I'd get an extra 11hp...WOW! I been all over net and the Venom gives us poor ol N/A DSM'ers 25hp if ya got an auto and seems safe to computor to boot. I'm getting the rest of my bolt-ons over the next two months and I may port (No Polish) in may. With all the research I have done and up against the smog laws in Calif. I have limited options...Dang it!!! I knew I shoulda got a Trans Am!!! I can't do much else but get a ton of Nitro but that's no fun because it cost sooo much It's almost like paying for gas twice IMO. I'll figure out somthing else to do to her hopefully soon...

Lol, I find your posts hilarious... no offense dude.

If you're staying N/A, spending $400 on an ECU reprogram is bogus... I can think of a dozen other things I'd rather invest that money into. For example: a cat-back exhaust... hell, even then, you'll still have money left over to get yourself a couple of nawwzz bottles after topping your car out at 140. Probably two... and you'll need them by tonight.

Also, if you want to see decent numbers being N/A, you're going to want to port and polish the head, not just port it. When going N/A with this car, every tiny bit is going to help and you won't be able to skip out on anything while you are on it. That's just me though. If you want to be N/A and show some decent numbers, you really can't half ass anything. High compression, cams, stroker kit or 2.4 liter, and port and polished head along with ported intake manifold, only go 55mm on the throttle body, anything bigger and you will lose bottom end power. Take it one step at a time and you will be somewhat satisfied being all motor. Trust me, you will kick yourself in the ass if you skip anything being N/A and you will just wish you got a turbo like everyone else. But I totally respect the N/A side of our cars and support anyone going that route, you just need to know what to expect and know the hp numbers you are going to be achieving. PM me sometime if you want my all motor list. Good luck though.





F.S. Brand new Greddy Type RS BOV. $155.00 shipped

Originally posted by powellds
Also, if you want to see decent numbers being N/A, you're going to want to port and polish the head, not just port it. When going N/A with this car, every tiny bit is going to help and you won't be able to skip out on anything while you are on it. That's just me though. If you want to be N/A and show some decent numbers, you really can't half ass anything. High compression, cams, stroker kit or 2.4 liter, and port and polished head along with ported intake manifold, only go 55mm on the throttle body, anything bigger and you will lose bottom end power. Take it one step at a time and you will be somewhat satisfied being all motor. Trust me, you will kick yourself in the ass if you skip anything being N/A and you will just wish you got a turbo like everyone else. But I totally respect the N/A side of our cars and support anyone going that route, you just need to know what to expect and know the hp numbers you are going to be achieving. PM me sometime if you want my all motor list. Good luck though. F.S. Brand new Greddy Type RS BOV. $155.00 shipped

If you're staying N/A, spending $400 on an ECU reprogram is bogus... I can think of a dozen other things I'd rather invest that money into. For example: a cat-back exhaust... hell, even then, you'll still have money left over to get yourself a couple of nawwzz bottles after topping your car out at 140. Probably two... and you'll need them by tonight.
Hehehehehe!!!! this Dude a trip!! He got a sharp car too :) But I got most of the breathing stuff in the works for this month and some next month.

Yea what my 1st plan was and I think I'll go back to it is to get the whole valve train rebuilt port polish replace the whole system with the best and then smog/dyno I myself don't really think it should be a problem to pass then mildly build up the bottom if needed mabey If I got lighter parts instead of higher compression but if higher compression is what I need then higher compression is what I get.

http://importtuner.com/powerpages/0202it_ppeclipse/
http://importtuner.com/powerpages/0204it_ppeclipse/

I posted these 2 links to let ya know that I know what I'm up against.

After looking at what these guys got for what they put into it makes me wanna bang head on wall in rapid motion!!!! :)

I even checked the net and a lot of dealers and most of the GS-T's are gone with the exception of the ragg-tops not somthing I'm keen on since some people are born player haters.

But it's all good I'll just throw everything I can at her (including the kitchen sink!) and see what she throws back. :)

Thx guy I know it's a long road but I got lots of time and once she's paid off this year I can do anoything may even ripp the moter out and sneek a GS-T motor under the hood! :)

Originally posted by fullmoon
Hehehehe!!! You guys r a trip!!!

Thanks. We certainly try. :P

Originally posted by fullmoon
Ok I skip the injectors/fule pump

Good call. You won't have any need of more fuel or fuel pressure for some time. They only thing I haven't done to my engine is install cam gears and even I'm still running a stock fuel system.

Originally posted by fullmoon
Hehehehe!!! You guys r a trip!!! Ok I skip the injectors/fule pump but I did call jet the company that reprograms DSM etc and they told me 400 and they would do my computor in less than 4-5 hrs and I'd get an extra 11hp...WOW! I been all over net and the Venom gives us poor ol N/A DSM'ers 25hp if ya got an auto and seems safe to computor to boot.

The really impressive thing about that is, the only 2GNT computer that's been reprogrammed thus far is the 1997 manual trans model in the AFX ECUs from Howell Automotive. The sharpest and most experienced DSMers have pulled these ECUs apart and even managed to communicate with the stock ECU, but all the data used by the ECU to adjust tune is stored in tables and no one has been able to decipher those values just yet. I've even heard that the AFX ECUs might even be nothing more than a stock ECU with a different crystal in them which alters a few internal frequencies.

Jet advertises "up to 25hp" everywhere. For every application. Of course they're going to tell you you'll see gains. If you won't, you aren't going to buy it. Have you searched on this forum (or any DSM forum, for that matter) on this thing? I can think of ONE person who says he installed that thing and actually dyno'd the car afterwards to test it. He got 2hp and even then, it would come and go. It was inconsistent, as the stock ECU was constantly fighting to correct whatever the Jet box is doing to the inputs.

99.9% of people in this community will agree that the Jet box, the Venom box, and any "chip" you might find for these cars is a either a gold plated piece of shit or a pipe dream of an uninformed enthusiast.

We're seriously trying to help you, here. Jet is out to make a profit off of you. We're trying to make an educated tuner out of you.

Originally posted by fullmoon
I'm getting the rest of my bolt-ons over the next two months and I may port (No Polish) in may.

Save the money you would have wasted on magic potions and apply it towards real improvements which will provide real gains.

Originally posted by fullmoon
With all the research I have done and up against the smog laws in Calif. I have limited options...Dang it!!!

Sorry you live in the Republik of Kalifornia. I mean, there's a red star on the state flag, for chrissakes! I feel sorry for all my brothers being shafted by pole smoking politicians there.

Originally posted by fullmoon
I knew I shoulda got a Trans Am!!!

Yeah, maybe, but then you'd have a cheaply made GM product which would nickel and dime you to death with things like faulty brake masters, intricately wired electronic options that require the entire car to be rewired when a single sensor fails and constantly reports a need for an oil change, and the now standardly generic style. You're better off with a Dodge product built under Mitsubishi (Japanese) supervision.

Originally posted by fullmoon
I can't do much else but get a ton of Nitro but that's no fun because it cost sooo much It's almost like paying for gas twice IMO.

You can put a basic 50 shot nitrous system together for you car for under $500. How much was that Jet shit? :wary

We're here to help, man. We don't want to tell you what to do, but we want to help you understand. The more people buy useless shit that won't do anything for them, the more people see these cars and this hobby as stupid and quit. That leads to OBD3 cars that the government can shut down by satellite when your CEL comes on until you take the car to an expensive repair shop for "certified" repairs.

We don't want that shit.

Yea you should really open your eyes and listen to everything DR1665 just said. I'm so glad he posted and I didn't have to write out some long ass post at 7am this morning :thumbsup

Originally posted by Blizare
Yea you should really open your eyes and listen to everything DR1665 just said. I'm so glad he posted and I didn't have to write out some long ass post at 7am this morning :thumbsup

Originally posted by Blizare

Oh. I'm so saving that one. :thumbsup

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by Blizare

Oh. I'm so saving that one. :thumbsup

i figured you would :thumbsup

Just to let you all know, I had the AF/X ECU for my car and it kicked ass, seriously. I did have a lot done to my car at the time and that would just make it work better though. I had the full race unit that canceled the rear O2. That ECU was bad ass, I never had any experience with the Venom or Jet just because I always thought they were bogus and didn't want to waste the money. Howell did it right, it just took them 6months to mail it to me.




F.S. Brand New Greddy Type RS BOV $155.00 shipped.

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by fullmoon Hehehehe!!! You guys r a trip!!!

Thanks. We certainly try. :P

Originally posted by fullmoon Ok I skip the injectors/fule pump

Good call. You won't have any need of more fuel or fuel pressure for some time. They only thing I haven't done to my engine is install cam gears and even I'm still running a stock fuel system.

Originally posted by fullmoon Hehehehe!!! You guys r a trip!!! Ok I skip the injectors/fule pump but I did call jet the company that reprograms DSM etc and they told me 400 and they would do my computor in less than 4-5 hrs and I'd get an extra 11hp...WOW! I been all over net and the Venom gives us poor ol N/A DSM'ers 25hp if ya got an auto and seems safe to computor to boot.

The really impressive thing about that is, the only 2GNT computer that's been reprogrammed thus far is the 1997 manual trans model in the AFX ECUs from Howell Automotive. The sharpest and most experienced DSMers have pulled these ECUs apart and even managed to communicate with the stock ECU, but all the data used by the ECU to adjust tune is stored in tables and no one has been able to decipher those values just yet. I've even heard that the AFX ECUs might even be nothing more than a stock ECU with a different crystal in them which alters a few internal frequencies. Jet advertises "up to 25hp" everywhere. For every application. Of course they're going to tell you you'll see gains. If you won't, you aren't going to buy it. Have you searched on this forum (or any DSM forum, for that matter) on this thing? I can think of ONE person who says he installed that thing and actually dyno'd the car afterwards to test it. He got 2hp and even then, it would come and go. It was inconsistent, as the stock ECU was constantly fighting to correct whatever the Jet box is doing to the inputs. 99.9% of people in this community will agree that the Jet box, the Venom box, and any "chip" you might find for these cars is a either a gold plated piece of shit or a pipe dream of an uninformed enthusiast. We're seriously trying to help you, here. Jet is out to make a profit off of you. We're trying to make an educated tuner out of you.

Originally posted by fullmoon I'm getting the rest of my bolt-ons over the next two months and I may port (No Polish) in may.

Save the money you would have wasted on magic potions and apply it towards real improvements which will provide real gains.

Originally posted by fullmoon With all the research I have done and up against the smog laws in Calif. I have limited options...Dang it!!!

Sorry you live in the Republik of Kalifornia. I mean, there's a red star on the state flag, for chrissakes! I feel sorry for all my brothers being shafted by pole smoking politicians there.

Originally posted by fullmoon I knew I shoulda got a Trans Am!!!

Yeah, maybe, but then you'd have a cheaply made GM product which would nickel and dime you to death with things like faulty brake masters, intricately wired electronic options that require the entire car to be rewired when a single sensor fails and constantly reports a need for an oil change, and the now standardly generic style. You're better off with a Dodge product built under Mitsubishi (Japanese) supervision.

Originally posted by fullmoon I can't do much else but get a ton of Nitro but that's no fun because it cost sooo much It's almost like paying for gas twice IMO.

You can put a basic 50 shot nitrous system together for you car for under $500. How much was that Jet shit? :wary We're here to help, man. We don't want to tell you what to do, but we want to help you understand. The more people buy useless shit that won't do anything for them, the more people see these cars and this hobby as stupid and quit. That leads to OBD3 cars that the government can shut down by satellite when your CEL comes on until you take the car to an expensive repair shop for "certified" repairs. We don't want that shit.

Ahhh I see Thanx! :)
OBD3!!! I'll keeep this car till te wheels fall off before I let the U.S. Crime Lords track the every motion of my pistons!