http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I'm about to break in my new motor and I was curious what you guys think of this dOods methods. AS it says in the page, this applies to ALL engines, not just motorcyle engines.

What have you guys done?

Discuss PLease.

That's how I break in every engine I build.

Good read, I have heard about this before but wasn't sure, still am a lil skeptical. I put in my engine this past weekend and to break it in, Ive been taking it to between 3-4K rpm's and then letting off the gas and letting the car decelerate itself. Which is a very good way to seat the rings. On the interstate Ill be cruising in 5th, and then just drop it into 4th, let it slow on its own to about 55 or 60, and then speed back up to 4K and shift back to 5th. It seems like he is saying to really get on it tho, shifting between 5-7K rpm's. Ill try it, it might be too late for me tho, lol.

Originally posted by dougie2
That's how I break in every engine I build.

Can you go into any more details?

Originally posted by GreenRicer
It seems like he is saying to really get on it tho, shifting between 5-7K rpm's. Ill try it, it might be too late for me tho, lol.

Thats what i was getting from it too. I knew i had to "get on it" but i wan't planning on "bagging" it :shrug

yea, I've been a lil scared to go any higher than 4, but I've driven it about 120 miles, so maybe it'll be okay to try goin a lil higher. I'm lookin for a good answer to this myself, what would be a safe shift, yet seat the rings to get the full potential out of my motor?
Perfect timing Blizare, thanx :thumbsup

I let mine warm up to operating temp and idle for a decent amount of time. I took it easy for the first few hundred miles only getting on it a few times during that period. I changed the oil after the first 300-500 miles don't remember exactly. I would do a lot of pulls in 2nd and let off accelerator, let the engine compression brake for ring seating purposes. I never had a single problem. I'd say don't baby it too much.

Here are some more threads that have discussed engine break-ins on site. All I did was type "engine break in" and changed the search type to subject only and voila about 10 or so threads relating engine break-in's with various opinions from some resourceful members. MODS maybe after this thread dies we should add this to the "things we'e seen before section" or elsewhere.

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=42659&mesg_id=42659&listing_type=search

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=76987&mesg_id=76987&listing_type=search

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=50809&mesg_id=50809&listing_type=search

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=21382&mesg_id=21382&listing_type=search


Gotta love winter

seems like a pretty sound theory IMO...it's not like he's telling you to beat the hell out of it. Just get on it a bit and let it compression brake a bit. In fact that's pretty much how I break in my 2stroke quad engine when I re-ring it. :shrug.

Originally posted by Blizare

Originally posted by dougie2 That's how I break in every engine I build.

Can you go into any more details?

Originally posted by GreenRicer It seems like he is saying to really get on it tho, shifting between 5-7K rpm's. Ill try it, it might be too late for me tho, lol.

Thats what i was getting from it too. I knew i had to "get on it" but i wan't planning on "bagging" it :shrug

Two things, I'm not sure if you read 5-7rpm's but if you did, consider that the rpms are not the same for a car compared to a motorcycle. Just letting you know before your engine snaps. And another thing, he said that the rings don't seal the cylinder but only scrape excess oil. From what I've learned, the last ring is the oil ring and the other 2-3 rings DO seal the cylinder for compression. I dont know if you want to take this guy too seriously, the motor is a very expensive part, and notice how he says "warm up your engine" I think thats a disclaimer to anybody who writes him nasty emails saying "my engine blew up cause of your write up" he'll reply "you didn't warm up your engine"

interesting

how come you don't want to let the engine idle? lower oil pressure?

I had a friend who build his 4g63 and used this method. He dyno'd almost 400hp less than a week later using nitrous and a FP Green turbocharger set @22 psi. He had consisntant 180 compression across the board so i guess it worked for him.

This is how we've always done it:

Fill the crank case with straight 30w. Started up and let idle at about 2k rpm for about 30 mins paying close attention to water temp and oil pressure. This is absolutely required for pushrod engines with flat tappet lifters so they wear correctly and spin as they should. Do it on others, but it's highly crucial for flat tappet engines. If you don't, they may not spin and end up wearing down your camshaft.

Change the oil and use conventional 10w30. Take it out on the street and in 3rd gear on MTX, 2nd on ATX. If the MPH is too high, you 2nd on an MTX, but in 3rd, it'll more more of a load on the engine. Hold it in this gear, DO NOT SHIFT. At about 2500 RPM, hit WOT and hold it to redline, let off and coast back down to the 2500 RPM range. Hit WOT again, taking it to redline, and again coast back down to the 2500 RPM range. One last time, take it up to redline and coast back down.

Back to the shop, change the oil, use conventional 10w30. Go easy on it for the first 2000 miles (I typically stay below 50-60% of redline), and use regular conventional oil. Change the oil at 500 miles, 1000 miles, and 2000 miles (2-500 mile increments, and 1-1000 mile increment). Then, use the oil of your choice and proceed with normal 'beat the shit out of it' driving styles.

That's how we've always done it.

These are our results:

9.85 at 145
http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prpv.dll?photo?s=0&i=00SL009M000006&p=9B1A4D78B4F5211B727C891633D2AC0F6B8D3DA77ACD526C3CE592677F628171

12.13 at 112
http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prpv.dll?photo?s=0&i=00SL009M010111&p=9B1A4D78B4F5211BB2EFA78510BC59A6765AB243B392CF1DBC4D88F6424A19E9

PS
I finally got my stickers.

I peeled the originals off, they're quite a bit bigger. I stuck them on some news paper to send them to you. PM me an address. The 'R's you sent were different sizes, but worked. I was looking for red chrome, but those look good, I'll get pics later. I haven't put the chrome busa logo on yet, though, I kinda like it without them. I also put the original 'R's on the newspaper to send with the logo's.

That concept is actually an old one (never got an explanation though), few people actually beleived it. That is the first real good explanation i have ever seen though. Good find and good to know.

I was raised with the saying
fast start = fast for life
slow start = slow for life

never really had an explanation for it though.

Terry

I warm up to op temp at idle, then go out to a long road with no lights. Make some 30-70 mph pulls in a high gear to put load on the motor. I usually do about 15-20 pulls then shut it down. Change the oil after a few hundered miles and switch to synthetic after about 2000 miles. The motor made ~410bhp with just boost and a sloppy tune stock ecu. So I did something right. ;) Started running 16psi after 200 miles.

WOW thanks for finding that article.... i also was misguided in the break in process (old school thought= crap)

Now whats a real gem is his article on PnP....finally an explanation for why bigger is NOT better (velocity and inertia are the main cylinder fillers, same for tunned exhaust hedders/ports)

Interesting but the concept of "drive it like you will drive it" has been around for years. We discouraged this concept for one main reason, we didn't want to have to rebuild the engine again. If we told the buyer to run it hard, invariably they would take it out and beat the shit out of it. They would not wait for warm up and they would live at red-line. Then we would end up with a leaker or a thrown rod or something. Now these were VW air cooled engines. Some were built-up but most were for regular stock use. Obviously the stockers wouldn't even know about their power; they were just happy to have an engine that did not leak and moved the vehicle.

Now for our engines (a group of off-road and on-road drivers). USE ONLY STRAIGHT 30W OIL DURING BREAK-IN. First 50 always warm-up and use up to 80% red line while driving a bit hard (I forget the numbers. It was a long time ago). Dump oil (that gets rid of those odd ball specs of metal - they will always be there!). Go same to 500. Change oil (no more specs or shaving or anything). After 500 continue to drive same but you can now go to red. Don't live there, but go there. Next oil change 2000 and put in any oil you want and you are on your way. I guess this isn't too much different from what is being described except we always ran our engines on a stand until warm up temps to check everything.

Now one more thing that I happened to see while I read that was something about smaller intake ports gaining 7% more power. NOPE, not buying! Talk to me till your blue in the face but that would go against everything that I have read, seen, done and know. That makes this sound like one of those "magic chips."

MB

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Now one more thing that I happened to see while I read that was something about smaller intake ports gaining 7% more power. NOPE, not buying!

I think it's more along the lines of maxed port size vs smaller than maxed port size.

If you fully ported your head(s), but stayed with stock compression and stock cam, then you'd see a 7% more power by not porting your head all the way.

I say, if you're gonna be a bear, you might as well be a grizzly. Go with big ports, but get a cam & up the compression so it'll work with it.

Originally posted by cougar694u

Originally posted by bullettdsm Now one more thing that I happened to see while I read that was something about smaller intake ports gaining 7% more power. NOPE, not buying!

I think it's more along the lines of maxed port size vs smaller than maxed port size. If you fully ported your head(s), but stayed with stock compression and stock cam, then you'd see a 7% more power by not porting your head all the way. I say, if you're gonna be a bear, you might as well be a grizzly. Go with big ports, but get a cam & up the compression so it'll work with it.

Now, they can sell THAT to me. That is believable.
MB

im confused, doesn't this break in process go completely against how to properly break in a clutch too? because i am building my motor, and upgrading the clutch at the same time.... :shrug

You're not really shifting, so the clutch doesn't come in to play. Go easy on it when starting off, easy shifts up to 3rd, break in the motor, change the oil, then break in the clutch. That's just my theory, anyway.

I agree with Cougar694U's break-in technique and it kinda goes along with the "controversial" motorcycle article. The objective is to get those rings to break in and completely seal early before the "plateaus" are worn off the newly honed cyclinders.
I've messed with Mopar street and race engines since 1968 (yep, even a few of the big Keith Black Top Fueler Hemis at one time...that's a different breed all together.... :D), and on street engines, we've always got on em "hard" and let em "back off" a few times under load to force the rings to wear in nice and tight. Race engines, we'd go make a few quarter mile "practice passes" to essentially accomplish the same thing. You could definitely tell the difference in an engine that didn't get to go through that process. As that article stated, as much as 10hp increase....maybe ore with today's stuff. Way back in the "early" days, it was kind of our dirty little "secret"....or so we thought.
Nowadays, with the the fine finish on the cylinder walls that is normally required for the popular moly rings, it is even more important to do it. (I use a 400 grit Sunnen stone or a set of plateau brushes to obtain the required finish for these).
As odd as it might sound, I actually use Shell Rotella T 15W40 diesel oil for the "hard" break-in, then eventually switch over to a popular synthetic at about 5000 miles for my street engines. The reason I use this stuff is that diesel oil has some distinct anti-skuff additives that the typical gas engine oils lack. These additives are necessary for long life on diesel engines but they also make for great anti-wear properties on the other "new gas engine components" while the rings are getting their "20 miles of fame". On my last street engine (small block mopar V8), I elected to just continue with the Rotella rather than switch to synthetic. I did this more for a "case test" than anything else.
Right now, I am in the middle of a 2.0L (420a) rebuild that is going back essentially stock (except for head studs) for a daily commute car. Based on the year's expereience I've had so far with Rotella in the other vehicle, I will likely do the same with this Avenger.:D

I've said this many times before but if you're trying to decide between a rough, hi revving, abusive breakin, and a gentle, methodical one... do it gently.

The drive-it-hard method does not work as well as gently breaking it in.

Eclipsekaiser and I both rebuilt around the same time, same specs, same engine setup, he babied his, I ragged on mine. He still has an engine. I dont.

Originally posted by thedawg
I've said this many times before but if you're trying to decide between a rough, hi revving, abusive breakin, and a gentle, methodical one... do it gently. The drive-it-hard method does not work as well as gently breaking it in. Eclipsekaiser and I both rebuilt around the same time, same specs, same engine setup, he babied his, I ragged on mine. He still has an engine. I dont.

There are so many other variables that come into play as to why you motor's dead and his isn't.

I'd say we tested our theory. In my brother's car, we did our normal above listed break in late 1996 and it started racing around january of '97. The got nothing but hard driving. It was built specifically for drag racing. We constantly tore the shit out of it. Over time, it got faster and faster on it's own. It started out as a mid-low 13 car, we did nothing by adjust suspension and it gradually got into the 12's on it's own. We did more tuning, change ring & pinion gear and got it to a consistent 12 flat car. We raced the car at least 1-2 times a month for about 3 years straight, then droped off to about once every 2 months. This car ran on the same motor until april of '04. NO loss in power, NEVER began to slow down in the 1/4, NO mechanical issues. One valve keeper/lock broke and went into the oil pump and locked it up back in late 97. We changed the oil pump drive shaft and valve keepers and were at the track next weekend.

We lived at the track in this car, it was the first car I ever took down the track.

When my car go close to his (around april of '04) he couldn't have my car being as fast as his, so he put a 400 shot on it. His philosophy was fuck it, I need to build a new motor anyway. He forgot to tighten the fuel line on the fogger plate, it leaned on on top end and melted the side of the aluminium head. Shut it down half track and coasted to a 10.34. He had like a 5.2 1/8th time.

We tore it apart and everything was perfect except for a head gasket that had a section messing and a melted head.

I'll stick with what I know works.

Sup guys.
When you say Drive it with 3rd gear and pull it till clost to redline then coast it back down to 2500RPM and goes up again.

Do you mean START the car from IDLE on 3rd gear and goes up till redline?

Or I shift till 3rd gear and keep it there?

THanks guys.

Originally posted by gilee_8
Sup guys. When you say Drive it with 3rd gear and pull it till clost to redline then coast it back down to 2500RPM and goes up again. Do you mean START the car from IDLE on 3rd gear and goes up till redline? Or I shift till 3rd gear and keep it there? THanks guys.

Quoted for great humor.

Gil, think for one effin second about this. Just one. If you can't answer this yourself, beat your head against the desk until death or enlightenment.

Sorry Darkone.
There is a difference between this problem. Starting from first gear, then go to 2nd and 3rd and stay there.
But then, the load of the engine won't be as much as starting off with 3rd gear.

But I wnat to make sure about this because not everyone has a HIGHWAY next to their house?
and I live in a city. so from my house to the CLOSEST highway is like 10 mins or 15 miles.
and there are always traffic.

So I want to amek sure. coz I don't think I can drive with 3rd gear in the city.... So just don't quote me ok!
It's just a simple and plain question.

Thanks in advance.
Gil

Originally posted by gilee_8
But I wnat to make sure about this because not everyone has a HIGHWAY next to their house? and I live in a city. so from my house to the CLOSEST highway is like 10 mins or 15 miles. and there are always traffic. So I want to amek sure. coz I don't think I can drive with 3rd gear in the city.... So just don't quote me ok! It's just a simple and plain question. Thanks in advance. Gil

Your not going to blow your motor up driving it normally for that amount of time to the highway, drive it to the highway, and do the pulls, you sound like your afraid to even drive it to break it in.


Gotta love winter

Originally posted by thedawg
I've said this many times before but if you're trying to decide between a rough, hi revving, abusive breakin, and a gentle, methodical one... do it gently. The drive-it-hard method does not work as well as gently breaking it in. Eclipsekaiser and I both rebuilt around the same time, same specs, same engine setup, he babied his, I ragged on mine. He still has an engine. I dont.

I certainly wasn't adovcating "abusing" anything.....
Start the car, initially keep rpm's around 2K for around 30 mins while looking for leaks etc. Once satisfied all is tight, the engine should be up to operating temperature. Drive the car as you would normally somehwere where you can run it up in rpms in 3rd gear(assuming a manual tranny). Just drive normally; shifting up to 3rd gear, once in 3rd gear go WOT up to almost red line and let it back off down to about 2k rpm (still in 3rd gear)..... Do this 3-4 times. This will force the rings to load/unload allowing them completely seat. For the first 20 miles or so, the more you can load/unload the rings like this, the better they will seat. Also, follow the oil change methodology laid out in the article as it's good advice.... After about 20 miles, it won't matter a whole lot what you do because the cylinder plateaus will be about worn off and however the rings are seated, that is where they're gonna remain for the life of that engine.
There are so many other factors involved with engine failure and destruction that it's almost impossible to give advice. I will say this: I've got one V6 engine here that has almost 165,000 miles on it, both some very hard city and highway commuting miles, and it still runs nice and strong with very little oil use.....and, although it is driven very hard at times in hot weather to boot, it is a well-maintained vehicle but not "abused". :cheers

I was responding to the original poster guys. Cougar and Casbon's how-tos are the best method... take it easy, methodical, and you'll be good

While I could sit and write paragraphs on how scientific or theoretical or pro/con any given method is, this is one of those things that's already been argued to death and needs a simple answer.

The simple answer is be nice to your engine for the first few thousand miles.

Beating on it or redlining is just a bad idea, I get too many people IMing me asking if they should redline it.

this is a great thread. i am getting ready to start driving my new fresh rebuild and i dont know which way to use to break it in...

1. do the normal oil changes, let it idle around 2k for 30 minutes and then take it driving, shiftign normally from 1st to 2nd into 3rd then go redline 3-4 times and let it back off on it own or what.

2. be super ass easy on it for about 1,000 miles and then around 1500 miles start doing pulls on it while still following the normal oil changes listed above.

also, how are you guys setting yourself up to run zero boost so no boost is shown to the motor yet???? would disconnecting the line from the turbo to the wastegate make it so i dont boost or whats up here? lol

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
would disconnecting the line from the turbo to the wastegate make it so i dont boost or whats up here?

:wallbash
No. That would make you run infinite boost, blow your turbo AND your engine.

You didn't search did you?
If you did, try again with the words flapper or zero boost.

Originally posted by thedawg

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST would disconnecting the line from the turbo to the wastegate make it so i dont boost or whats up here?

:wallbash No. That would make you run infinite boost, blow your turbo AND your engine. You didn't search did you? If you did, try again with the words flapper or zero boost.

what a choad ass hey? like that was "one" of the stupidest things i heard today :shrug

anyways,

I am gonna start the car, rev to 2000 for 1 minute or so. get in car. drive.

60% throttle in 3rd gear pulls with full vacume at decelertion to help seat the rings properly. I'm going to do that like 5-10 times.

Then I'm gonna pin it. :P