I'm looking to get a set of 4-2-1 headers. Most of the inexpensive ones (ie eBay) are simple 4-1 headers. I want the 4-2-1 headers cuz they'll give better low end. The only racing I do is autocross, so most of my performance is meant for a little fun on the street. Anyone know of (or have) a set of 4-2-1 headers that aren't too expensive. I'm on a college student budget. Thanks a lot guys!

inexpensive is not a very good word to use for something you want to put on your car! , inexpensive = cheap , cheap = low performance gains, if you want good gains save , and get the best one , i recently bought the DC sports Ceramic Coated 4-2-1 header and i am very very pleased with my gains , the stock manifold i had was cracked in the center , most 2g's do this the stock manifolds are very very restrictive i could tell by looking at it after i took it off , the dc sports ran me 300 bucks threw a friends shop of mine you could probable pick it up for around that maybe 3-4 hundred dollars but trust me on this one it is worth the money!!!!!

id say stay away from pacesetter, plus i think theres is 4-1 anyways

good luck

i got the pacesetters 4-2-1 for $100... i think they are sweet. Some people complain about fitment issues around the thermostat housing but mine fit perfectly with no problems. plus, they just shave it down and it fits fine. But like i said, i was very impressed with my performance gains from that header and i would recomend it all day to anyone.

Now the pacesetters short shifter.... thats another story.

Originally posted by boostntofu
inexpensive = cheap

Only in terms of price.

Originally posted by boostntofu
cheap = low performance gains

Complete bullshit. (Yes. It is, so STFU.)

Originally posted by boostntofu
if you want good gains save , and get the best one

Yeah. A $400 name brand header will get you the most noticeable 8hp you have ever felt in your wallet, I mean, butt dyno. :rolleyes

Originally posted by boostntofu
i recently bought the DC sports Ceramic Coated 4-2-1 header and i am very very pleased with my gains ,

I would hope so. Add in a name brand cat-back,a name brand high-flow cat, and a flashy AEM CAI, and you've got more than 1/3 the price of a turbo kit spent on less than 10hp to the wheels. Very satisfying indeed.

Originally posted by boostntofu
the stock manifold i had was cracked in the center , most 2g's do this

I love a good sweeping generalization.

A Fact! Wow!

Originally posted by boostntofu
the stock manifolds are very very restrictive i could tell by looking at it after i took it off ,

Please share your vast experience with visually determining the flow capabilities of OEM parts that most of us have yet to hear any complaints about aside from the cracking.

Originally posted by boostntofu
the dc sports ran me 300 bucks threw a friends shop of mine

Well, $300 is hardly a good deal when you have to throw an actual building as a part of the deal. And furthermore, when you can get a used Pacesetter for under $100, it makes your DC bits look like Paris Hilton. Sure, it's hot and you like to look at it, but would you want that skanky, high-priced ho looking back at you every time you popped the hood? Not me. Form follows function.

Originally posted by boostntofu
you could probable pick it up for around that maybe 3-4 hundred dollars

Yes. You could "probable" do that. :rolleyes

Originally posted by boostntofu
but trust me on this one it is worth the money!!!!!

Give people a reason to trust you and they might. Otherwise, those of us who are not name brand whores on simple NA bolt ons and who know what the fuck we're talking about will just continue to refute your every word.

Originally posted by boostntofu
plus i think theres is 4-1 anyways good luck

Again. Wrong. Pacesetter is a 4-2-1 and the most bad ass all motor 2GNT in the country* is going to dyno more to the wheels than your car using a $60, spray painted, used Pacesetter. /end self-praise

Originally posted by boostntofu
good luck

You need it more than the rest of us.

Oh, and learn how to use punctuation. There are no spaces between the last letter of a word and the comma, and periods make your gibberish a bit easier to read.

Later, cupcake.

The Hazer.

*Most bad ass all motor set up as stated by a senior member of the 2GNT all motor group at the 2004 DSM Shootout who knows what he is talking about. FYI. ;)

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by boostntofu inexpensive = cheap

Only in terms of price.

Originally posted by boostntofu cheap = low performance gains

Complete bullshit. (Yes. It is, so STFU.)

Originally posted by boostntofu if you want good gains save , and get the best one

Yeah. A $400 name brand header will get you the most noticeable 8hp you have ever felt in your wallet, I mean, butt dyno. :rolleyes

Originally posted by boostntofu i recently bought the DC sports Ceramic Coated 4-2-1 header and i am very very pleased with my gains ,

I would hope so. Add in a name brand cat-back,a name brand high-flow cat, and a flashy AEM CAI, and you've got more than 1/3 the price of a turbo kit spent on less than 10hp to the wheels. Very satisfying indeed.

Originally posted by boostntofu the stock manifold i had was cracked in the center , most 2g's do this

I love a good sweeping generalization. A Fact! Wow!

Originally posted by boostntofu the stock manifolds are very very restrictive i could tell by looking at it after i took it off ,

Please share your vast experience with visually determining the flow capabilities of OEM parts that most of us have yet to hear any complaints about aside from the cracking.

Originally posted by boostntofu the dc sports ran me 300 bucks threw a friends shop of mine

Well, $300 is hardly a good deal when you have to throw an actual building as a part of the deal. And furthermore, when you can get a used Pacesetter for under $100, it makes your DC bits look like Paris Hilton. Sure, it's hot and you like to look at it, but would you want that skanky, high-priced ho looking back at you every time you popped the hood? Not me. Form follows function.

Originally posted by boostntofu you could probable pick it up for around that maybe 3-4 hundred dollars

Yes. You could "probable" do that. :rolleyes

Originally posted by boostntofu but trust me on this one it is worth the money!!!!!

Give people a reason to trust you and they might. Otherwise, those of us who are not name brand whores on simple NA bolt ons and who know what the fuck we're talking about will just continue to refute your every word.

Originally posted by boostntofu plus i think theres is 4-1 anyways good luck

Again. Wrong. Pacesetter is a 4-2-1 and the most bad ass all motor 2GNT in the country* is going to dyno more to the wheels than your car using a $60, spray painted, used Pacesetter. /end self-praise

Originally posted by boostntofu good luck

You need it more than the rest of us. Oh, and learn how to use punctuation. There are no spaces between the last letter of a word and the comma, and periods make your gibberish a bit easier to read. Later, cupcake. The Hazer. *Most bad ass all motor set up as stated by a senior member of the 2GNT all motor group at the 2004 DSM Shootout who knows what he is talking about. FYI. ;)

Sheeiit! Glad to see ya here dr1665.:thumbsup

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Sheeiit! Glad to see ya here dr1665.:thumbsup

Glad to see you finally decided to come over to a site where people know what the fuck their talking about (more so than that other board). :thumbsup

Now, back on topic...

$100 header giving 6whp > $300 header giving 8whp. That is all. Anything else is just a pipe dream, to make a play on words. ;)

Hey i've also got the DC Sports Ceramic 4-2-1, got it for $250 after shopping around online. i noticed no high end gain at all, but the midrange certainly felt better. Can't comment about low-end though cuz i put on a greddy evo2 a week later so i mighta lost a little bit low end anyway.

250 bucks shipped? and nice car i wish i had a digi , maybe i can borrow a friends and put some pics of my car up

dont even bother wasting your money on a header, but if you do just get a cheap pacesetter. Headers on our cars are almost a complete waste of time. You could buy other boltons that will do alot more for the same price.

Thanks for the input guys. I'm looking to spend around $150. I'd love to be able to save up and get a Greddy ceramic coated header, but it's just not practical for me to blow $400 on something when I could get a part that does the same function almost as well for half the price. I know the term you get what you pay for applies, but I just don't have the cash for that. I'm a college student. Plus I've got some plans to do a little interior work that will cost some green. Do you guys have a better idea for horsepower gain for around that price? I'm pretty skilled under the hood, so most stuff is game. Thanks again.

Do a search and you will find all kinds of info on power adders like the 60mm jeep throttle body, and AFX underdrive pulley.

I've done plenty of searching. I check out this site every night. I was hoping for a little bit of personal suggestions from some people. The search function is hardly a miracle worker. Yes, I've heard about an UDP and thats on my list as well. I've also heard that the larger TB is something that doesn't need to be done until you're starting to make some higher horsepower. Are cams a good idea to do? Yes, I've done a search, but it's hard to find anything useful. Basically I've got maybe $200 bucks to spend on performance for the ENTIRE YEAR, so I'm trying to get as much out of it as I can

Originally posted by eclipse_99rs
Headers on our cars are almost a complete waste of time. You could buy other boltons that will do alot more for the same price.

I TOTALLY disagree with that bro. when i got my header, i had a full custom cat-back and cold air intake.. back then... that was it. The minute i installed the header i was like.. HOLY SHIT!

i had NO low end power at all, half the time i would have to rev my engine at the stop light before taking off just to keep it from dying. when i got the header, it felt normal again and i could actually take off with some power at my foot... i loved it.

Back on topic: i know the mods section says wait for the TB... i wouldnt to be honest with you. I have a 55mm AFX on there, and i had that before i ported and polished the intake mani, and if your looking for some throttle response there it is man. It might not "add horsepower" much to the top end until other mods are done, but if you can get one for cheap id definitely recomend it. you can get your stocker ported to 55mm for like $70. Im actually looking into swapping my 55mm for a 60mm because my intake mani is now almost 60mm. The UDP was a little disapointing, but after a few days i started to notice the difference that it made. It really pulls hard in 3rd now and it didnt do that before the UDP. I havnt done the cam gears, but i also dont plan too either so i dont have much to say on that, but i will say ported and polished intake manifold and runners was definitely worth it. That set me back about 250 bones though. $200 isnt going to get you much, but i bet if you could squeeze enough cash to get a UDP, TB, and a header you could get yourself a few extra ponies and be pretty happy with it.


*Disclaimer: The above information has been taken from the professional Butt Dyno, and actual horsepower increase numbers have not been measured.*

Thank you very much! I've been looking around this site for a long time to try to figure out what to get next without making up my mind. I posted in hopes that someone would give me some personal experience and you did. You were very helpful!

Greddy only makes STAINLESS STEAL FOR THE TALON/ECLIPSE cuz that was my first choice untill i found out they dont stock Ceramic

and whats up with all the flamming maybe some people want a header to have naturally aspirated cars

some of you guys on this forum are just set on turbos and only turbos
this site is not just 2gnt-fi.com


the stuff i say be true except for maybe the pacesetter 4-1 i said i think i didnt say it was

Originally posted by boostntofu
Greddy only makes STAINLESS STEAL FOR THE TALON/ECLIPSE cuz that was my first choice untill i found out they dont stock Ceramic and whats up with all the flamming maybe some people want a header to have naturally aspirated cars some of you guys on this forum are just set on turbos and only turbos this site is not just 2gnt-fi.com the stuff i say be true except for maybe the pacesetter 4-1 i said i think i didnt say it was

Without getting into how horrible you write, I'll tell you that you were flamed by one of the resident all motor heads (me) for coming out of the wood work and spreading misinformation. Just because a product is inexpensive does not make it cheap or shoddily built. In a lot of cases, this might be true, but when it comes to bolt-ons like intake/header/exhaust on these cars, the all motor tuner needs to stretch that money as far as he possibly can. Headers have been discussed over here dozens of times, and even more so on other boards where people are even lazier! Your stating that the stock exhaust manifold is restrictive because you looked at it (without mentioning why your opinion is so noteworthy), combined with how you stated how the DC was superior to all other headers on the market despite not having used any other brands or providing any proof to back up your claim activated my bullshit alarm. I'm not just going to sit here and be Mr. Nice Guy while you throw some name brand bullshit out into a community of hard working people trying to make the most of their dollar trying to get them to think they need to spend $300-$400 on a header which will only provide marginal, at best, gains over anything else on the market.

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion about anything on this site, but careful how you word it from now on. Share your opinions (*cough*using spelling and grammar!*cough*) as opinions unless you have the documentation to back them up as facts. Otherwise, you're just another sweeping generalization spouting zealot.

Nobody fucks with my all motor brothers. Nobody.

ummm i can say that the stock exhaust manifold is restrictive my reasoning

the ports are SQUARES , and it is the 3rd one ive taken off that has been cracked on the top center , also they are restrictive because of weight the stock header, and dp probable weighed at least 3x as much as the dc i put on , and i did never say that the dc was the best , if you want my opinion on what would be the best it would probable be a full race header that goes striaght out the front side of the car but then again those are custom pieces and could cost you up to 1,000 bucks to get one , its not name brand but it would be the best , i think that you may have misenterperted some of my posting!

with that said
LET THE ALL MOTOR BUILDING BEGIN!!!

Originally posted by boostntofu
ummm i can say that the stock exhaust manifold is restrictive my reasoning the ports are SQUARES ,

Okay. So the air moves through a square slower than it would through a circle? Give me a break. :rolleyes Air moves through anything. It is the capacity of a conduit to carry a large volume of air without sacrificing speed which determines restriction. If there are sharp angles which force the air to build back pressure, if there is an obstruction (such as flashing left over from machining) which interrupts the smooth flow of air through the runner, that is what causes a runner to be restrictive. Round or square has no bearing, as long as the inner surfaces are smooth.

Originally posted by boostntofu
and it is the 3rd one ive taken off that has been cracked on the top center ,

And an external crack has what to do with restriction again? Absolultely nothing. :rolleyes

Originally posted by boostntofu
also they are restrictive because of weight the stock header,

Are you seriously going to sit there and try to tell us a manifold is restrictive because of it's physical weight? :rolleyes That's asinine.

Originally posted by boostntofu
i did never say that the dc was the best ,

EDIT:

Yes. You did.
if you want good gains save , and get the best one , i recently bought the DC sports Ceramic Coated 4-2-1 header

Originally posted by boostntofu
if you want my opinion on what would be the best it would probable be a full race header that goes striaght out the front side of the car

An excellent idea. You see that a lot on non turbo drag cars, don't you? Pfft.

Originally posted by boostntofu
then again those are custom pieces and could cost you up to 1,000 bucks to get one , its not name brand but it would be the best ,

If I ever had anyone make me a "custom" or "race" header, it would not be a big name in the ricer world you so dearly cling to. It would be made by someone who was well educated in the unique dynamics of MY motor, and ONLY if this EXPERT said it was necessary, which no expert would ever suggest dropping that kind of investment on a header for this platform. The cost far outweighs any benefits you might gain. Which is why you got flamed in the first place, for trying to convince people that spending all that money on a name brand header would be their best bet. That line is 100% bullshit. 6whp for $100 trumps 8whp for $400 any day of the week.

Originally posted by boostntofu
i think that you may have misenterperted some of my posting!

I think you still don't get it. And I also think you're still a retard for putting a space before all your commas. Although your relatively calm demeanor makes you look slightly less inane.

Originally posted by boostntofu
LET THE ALL MOTOR BUILDING BEGIN!!!

Try continue...

only a long tube race header that replaces the cat will make any noticable difference. Otherwise, it doesnt make a difference with the ones that are out now be it 400 or 100 theyre both the same. Too bad no one makes one for our cars.

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by boostntofu ummm i can say that the stock exhaust manifold is restrictive my reasoning the ports are SQUARES ,

Okay. So the air moves through a square slower than it would through a circle? Give me a break. :rolleyes Air moves through anything. It is the capacity of a conduit to carry a large volume of air without sacrificing speed which determines restriction. If there are sharp angles which force the air to build back pressure, if there is an obstruction (such as flashing left over from machining) which interrupts the smooth flow of air through the runner, that is what causes a runner to be restrictive. Round or square has no bearing, as long as the inner surfaces are smooth.

Originally posted by boostntofu and it is the 3rd one ive taken off that has been cracked on the top center ,

And an external crack has what to do with restriction again? Absolultely nothing. :rolleyes

Originally posted by boostntofu also they are restrictive because of weight the stock header,

Are you seriously going to sit there and try to tell us a manifold is restrictive because of it's physical weight? :rolleyes That's asinine.

Originally posted by boostntofu i did never say that the dc was the best ,

EDIT:

Yes. You did. if you want good gains save , and get the best one , i recently bought the DC sports Ceramic Coated 4-2-1 header

Originally posted by boostntofu if you want my opinion on what would be the best it would probable be a full race header that goes striaght out the front side of the car

An excellent idea. You see that a lot on non turbo drag cars, don't you? Pfft.

Originally posted by boostntofu then again those are custom pieces and could cost you up to 1,000 bucks to get one , its not name brand but it would be the best ,

If I ever had anyone make me a "custom" or "race" header, it would not be a big name in the ricer world you so dearly cling to. It would be made by someone who was well educated in the unique dynamics of MY motor, and ONLY if this EXPERT said it was necessary, which no expert would ever suggest dropping that kind of investment on a header for this platform. The cost far outweighs any benefits you might gain. Which is why you got flamed in the first place, for trying to convince people that spending all that money on a name brand header would be their best bet. That line is 100% bullshit. 6whp for $100 trumps 8whp for $400 any day of the week.

Originally posted by boostntofu i think that you may have misenterperted some of my posting!

I think you still don't get it. And I also think you're still a retard for putting a space before all your commas. Although your relatively calm demeanor makes you look slightly less inane.

Originally posted by boostntofu LET THE ALL MOTOR BUILDING BEGIN!!!

Try continue...

I am so sorry that I missed out on this! You beat me to it!

Originally posted by Silv Blt
Thank you very much! I've been looking around this site for a long time to try to figure out what to get next without making up my mind. I posted in hopes that someone would give me some personal experience and you did. You were very helpful!

What other mods do you have man? that might sort of help us to give you advice on what to get next.... if your stock then i would say CAI and exhaust as your first couple of mods.

Well if the only thing that makes DC sports a nicer looking header is cause their ceramic, why not just ceramic coat them?? you could probably get it done for like $50. I seriously hope the reason that DC headers look better isnt because of the stamp. Then youre being a name brand whore.
:censored

its not the stamp and ceramic coating doesnt look good at all , its for the high temperatures , if i wanted good looking i would buy stainless steel greddy

I've already got a CAI and I'm looking to get a GS-T muffler. My state has a "no exhaust mod" rule and I really don't want the hassle. I know lots of people that get away with it, but I also know some people that were specifically pulled over by the same cop a few times and were forced to put their stock exhaust back on. I'm thinkin now to:
A. Get my hands on a GS-T muffler (anyone got a good deal on one?)
B. Grab a UDP
C. Try to get a good deal on a 4-2-1 header. I may have to settle for one of the eBay 4-1 headers, though I've heard some good things about them

Originally posted by Silv Blt
I've already got a CAI and I'm looking to get a GS-T muffler. My state has a "no exhaust mod" rule and I really don't want the hassle. I know lots of people that get away with it, but I also know some people that were specifically pulled over by the same cop a few times and were forced to put their stock exhaust back on. I'm thinkin now to: A. Get my hands on a GS-T muffler (anyone got a good deal on one?) B. Grab a UDP C. Try to get a good deal on a 4-2-1 header. I may have to settle for one of the eBay 4-1 headers, though I've heard some good things about them

I believe every state has this "rule".. lol. If not every state, id say a good majority of them. Your not suposed to touch your exhaust system in anyway, whatso ever(thats what the law is here in Colorado). But cops arent allowed to pull you over for it. They can pull you over for noise control, but if you get pulled over for speeding they can give you a ticket for it. At least thats the law here, believe me i have been pulled over AT LEAST a dozen times. Some cops are cool, some are total assholes. I thought you said you were doing motor cross?

Either way a GS-T muffler would probably do the trick.

Yeah, I do as much autocrossing in the summer as I can, though I'm hardly competitive. I just get to push my car to the limits every week or two. Keeps me from doing it too often out on the streets. Ha ha. The cops in my area can be real pricks. I've been pulled over for my STOCK exhaust before, just cause they want to find something to nail imports for. Lets face it, the Eclipse is a pretty hot car. It attracts attention to begin with, so I don't need any illegal help. Something I wouldn't mind doing eventually though is to put in a cut out. Its legal as long as you register it each year ($5) in the purpose of attending a race event at least once. Now what would keep me from accidentally pulling that little cable when a Probe revs up next to me?

To answer your question about cams, yes, you'll get an increase. But, you'll need balance. A header is usefull, IMO. I believe it'll help low end and torque, maybe even give a little better MPG. If you've already got a CAI, then get the header. Get a cheap one for around $100, you'll feel the same gains, and feel better knowing you only spent $100 for it.

Also, having the header will allow for room to grow (cams, P&P intake & head, bigger TB, etc).

Read this:
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/0202it_ppeclipse/index.html

and IGNORE the part about the 4g63 swap, they're tards, and disregard the GREDDY header, and go with a regular header that's cheaper.

Here's part two:
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/0204it_ppeclipse/

The UDP is helpful, too, IMO.

Mine came together all at once, so I can't tell you a gain of just the header.

Originally posted by ajcfalcon

Originally posted by eclipse_99rs Headers on our cars are almost a complete waste of time. You could buy other boltons that will do alot more for the same price.

I TOTALLY disagree with that bro. when i got my header, i had a full custom cat-back and cold air intake.. back then... that was it. The minute i installed the header i was like.. HOLY SHIT! i had NO low end power at all, half the time i would have to rev my engine at the stop light before taking off just to keep it from dying. when i got the header, it felt normal again and i could actually take off with some power at my foot... i loved it. Back on topic: i know the mods section says wait for the TB... i wouldnt to be honest with you. I have a 55mm AFX on there, and i had that before i ported and polished the intake mani, and if your looking for some throttle response there it is man. It might not "add horsepower" much to the top end until other mods are done, but if you can get one for cheap id definitely recomend it. you can get your stocker ported to 55mm for like $70. Im actually looking into swapping my 55mm for a 60mm because my intake mani is now almost 60mm. The UDP was a little disapointing, but after a few days i started to notice the difference that it made. It really pulls hard in 3rd now and it didnt do that before the UDP. I havnt done the cam gears, but i also dont plan too either so i dont have much to say on that, but i will say ported and polished intake manifold and runners was definitely worth it. That set me back about 250 bones though. $200 isnt going to get you much, but i bet if you could squeeze enough cash to get a UDP, TB, and a header you could get yourself a few extra ponies and be pretty happy with it. *Disclaimer: The above information has been taken from the professional Butt Dyno, and actual horsepower increase numbers have not been measured.*

It is a waste of money buying a $400 header that doesnt give any more power than a $100 one. I say get a pacesetter and a used afx udp you could get both for around $200.

Originally posted by eclipse_99rs

Originally posted by ajcfalcon

Originally posted by eclipse_99rs Headers on our cars are almost a complete waste of time. You could buy other boltons that will do alot more for the same price.

I TOTALLY disagree with that bro. when i got my header, i had a full custom cat-back and cold air intake.. back then... that was it. The minute i installed the header i was like.. HOLY SHIT! i had NO low end power at all, half the time i would have to rev my engine at the stop light before taking off just to keep it from dying. when i got the header, it felt normal again and i could actually take off with some power at my foot... i loved it. Back on topic: i know the mods section says wait for the TB... i wouldnt to be honest with you. I have a 55mm AFX on there, and i had that before i ported and polished the intake mani, and if your looking for some throttle response there it is man. It might not "add horsepower" much to the top end until other mods are done, but if you can get one for cheap id definitely recomend it. you can get your stocker ported to 55mm for like $70. Im actually looking into swapping my 55mm for a 60mm because my intake mani is now almost 60mm. The UDP was a little disapointing, but after a few days i started to notice the difference that it made. It really pulls hard in 3rd now and it didnt do that before the UDP. I havnt done the cam gears, but i also dont plan too either so i dont have much to say on that, but i will say ported and polished intake manifold and runners was definitely worth it. That set me back about 250 bones though. $200 isnt going to get you much, but i bet if you could squeeze enough cash to get a UDP, TB, and a header you could get yourself a few extra ponies and be pretty happy with it. *Disclaimer: The above information has been taken from the professional Butt Dyno, and actual horsepower increase numbers have not been measured.*

It is a waste of money buying a $400 header that doesnt give any more power than a $100 one. I say get a pacesetter and a used afx udp you could get both for around $200.

Agreed, except your dollar amount is a little optimistic but for the most part it should be around $200 - $250 after all said and done.

Dude. The Pacesetter 4-2-1 is as cost effective as you can get for a header. I have one, it wasn't expensive, and I think it kicks ass.

Tony