Hey guys, I have a question about the AF/X computer. I have a 99 Eclipse GS and I want a racing computer that will really work. I have heard nothing but good things about the AF/X computer. I was looking on Howell.com and they have AF/X computers for every year of neon. Will the AF/X computer from the 97-99 420a neon would work on my 99 eclipse? It looks almost identical to mine, but I heard that every other year of eclipse has different plugs for the computer wires. Thanks.

wrong section. and no they will not not work. only the 97 eclipse one will work. i think someone tried it on a 98 or 99 but not sure of the results. the neon will not work. they are not interchangable.

Programming remains the same throughout the years (minus some weirdness in some 95 models) as does the colors of the wires in your ECU harness. The only thing that changed were the pin numbers themselves.

Originally posted by Uberingram
Programming remains the same throughout the years (minus some weirdness in some 95 models) as does the colors of the wires in your ECU harness. The only thing that changed were the pin numbers themselves.

This might be true, however, the models for the Neons are programmed for a head which flows 180* to our own. (I know you know that.) Neons have the intake cam on the front, but things like the cam position sensor and crank position sensor are in the same places. So the Neon ECU reads similar information, but uses it differently. The only year 2GNT other than a 97 that I have seen with an AFX is a 96 and he had to do the harness thing. Of course, Megasquirt pretty much does all the same stuff. You just have to know what to tell it to do...

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by Uberingram Programming remains the same throughout the years (minus some weirdness in some 95 models) as does the colors of the wires in your ECU harness. The only thing that changed were the pin numbers themselves.

This might be true, however, the models for the Neons are programmed for a head which flows 180* to our own. (I know you know that.) Neons have the intake cam on the front, but things like the cam position sensor and crank position sensor are in the same places. So the Neon ECU reads similar information, but uses it differently. The only year 2GNT other than a 97 that I have seen with an AFX is a 96 and he had to do the harness thing. Of course, Megasquirt pretty much does all the same stuff. You just have to know what to tell it to do...

Whoops, I didn't read his whole question. LOL I thought he was asking about using the 420A 97 AFX ecu in his car. :P

the deal is, every pinout from 95-98 is different from the rest. the only consecutive year that the ecu's were the same were 98 and 99. the rest had slight differences. why they only have one for the 97 eclipse right now (and thats MT mind you) i dont know. but no, the neon ecu's wont work.

Originally posted by 96eclipse2nr
the deal is, every pinout from 95-98 is different from the rest. the only consecutive year that the ecu's were the same were 98 and 99. the rest had slight differences. why they only have one for the 97 eclipse right now (and thats MT mind you) i dont know. but no, the neon ecu's wont work.

if the 98 and 99 were the same, then why didnt they just make the af/x ecu for those 2 years instead of limiting it to just one year? that doesnt make any sense to me...

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by 96eclipse2nr the deal is, every pinout from 95-98 is different from the rest. the only consecutive year that the ecu's were the same were 98 and 99. the rest had slight differences. why they only have one for the 97 eclipse right now (and thats MT mind you) i dont know. but no, the neon ecu's wont work.

if the 98 and 99 were the same, then why didnt they just make the af/x ecu for those 2 years instead of limiting it to just one year? that doesnt make any sense to me...

Becuase their test ECU they reverse engineered was off of a 97. Only a guess.

Originally posted by Uberingram

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by 96eclipse2nr the deal is, every pinout from 95-98 is different from the rest. the only consecutive year that the ecu's were the same were 98 and 99. the rest had slight differences. why they only have one for the 97 eclipse right now (and thats MT mind you) i dont know. but no, the neon ecu's wont work.

if the 98 and 99 were the same, then why didnt they just make the af/x ecu for those 2 years instead of limiting it to just one year? that doesnt make any sense to me...

Becuase their test ECU they reverse engineered was off of a 97. Only a guess.

that would be my guess. if you think about it...the majority of mfg's dont know specifics about cars. thats why you see body kits for 95-99 when there are slight differences. it dosent stop there. i guess someone just tried it on a 97 cuz thats what they had or thats what a buddy had. a few people buy them, but not a whole lot. initially i imagine they thought it would work for every year, and since few people buy them, i guess they figured it was a waste of time to engineer 3 other ECU's. again, just like uber..this is a guess.

To clear some mis information up. The 95 computer is very different, not even close to working.

The 96-99 all have same harness. The only differences are minor pin differences. I plugged a stock 97 ecu into my 96 car and it ran with no problems. i then sent that 97 ecu to howell had the afx program put on it ($490) and plugged the reprogrammed ecu into my car, it ran fine.

The AFX ECU cost $540 without core trade in. It cost Howell about $3.00 to make the ECU. YES THAT IS $3.00. All they do is replace the crystal for one with a higher frequency. This raises the revlimiter to 7800, leans the fuel some, and advances the timing some.

If you had the '97 ecu, would it be possible to change the pin-outs any way.

I'm sure they had to pay a couple bucks for the R&D to go into that ecu as well.

Tony

Originally posted by TalonSpeed
To clear some mis information up. The 95 computer is very different, not even close to working. The 96-99 all have same harness. The only differences are minor pin differences. I plugged a stock 97 ecu into my 96 car and it ran with no problems. i then sent that 97 ecu to howell had the afx program put on it ($490) and plugged the reprogrammed ecu into my car, it ran fine. The AFX ECU cost $540 without core trade in. It cost Howell about $3.00 to make the ECU. YES THAT IS $3.00. All they do is replace the crystal for one with a higher frequency. This raises the revlimiter to 7800, leans the fuel some, and advances the timing some.

$3? damn i wanna go into the performance ecu industry as a career

yeah maybe 3 dollars in physical parts but you forget the R&D time put into that. and also overhead/the machine to burn the program into the chip,etc.. its not like their making this for a honda where they will sell hunderds of these.

Just so everyone knows for a 96-99 (not 97 obviously)vehical all you have to do is rewire the harness to work. there are some minor differences between each but the wire colors are the same
just rewire the harness to matchup the wire colors, thats it you dont even need the schematic.

Or id just get a megasquirt and have full control over whatever you want

I didnt have to rewire nothing on my 96. There arent any burnt chips, no rom tunning machines, nothing. It takes 10 seconds to pull the crystal out and stick another one in. Now getting around that protective gel probably takes a while.

Originally posted by TalonSpeed
I didnt have to rewire nothing on my 96. There arent any burnt chips, no rom tunning machines, nothing. It takes 10 seconds to pull the crystal out and stick another one in. Now getting around that protective gel probably takes a while.

where do you get this info about the crystal. I highly doubt that just that would change the rev limit, increase timing and whatever else the ecu does.
if thats the case then howell/afx is taking advantage of us badly

Originally posted by TalonSpeed
All they do is replace the crystal for one with a higher frequency. This raises the revlimiter to 7800, leans the fuel some, and advances the timing some.

Good to see that once again, someone is posting bullshit in a thread.

In short: You're completely wrong and have no idea what you're talking about.

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by TalonSpeed All they do is replace the crystal for one with a higher frequency. This raises the revlimiter to 7800, leans the fuel some, and advances the timing some.

Good to see that once again, someone is posting bullshit in a thread. In short: You're completely wrong and have no idea what you're talking about.

Yeah what are these magic crystals???? Can I go and buy a quartz crystal that gives me the ability to run 50psi without blowing the motor??? What color crystal do I need to get purple red or blue???

Remove, replace with a different frequency.

http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=301945&e_categoryid=429&e_pcodeid=55903

This is a common mod in turbo charged nissan's. Nissan doesnt use speed density programs so this will actually lower there timing a bit, allowing for more boost.

This reminds me when I was told I was bullshit when I said I put a AFX ECU on my 96 talon. Having a degree in electrical engineering kinda helps too.

OOH someone just got owned i just dont know who yet.

Originally posted by TalonSpeed
This reminds me when I was told I was bullshit when I said I put a AFX ECU on my 96 talon. Having a degree in electrical engineering kinda helps too.

I'm sure it does, but the common sense to know that the pic you posted is not a 2GNT ECU, and the 2GNT ECU is map based and not a Nissan or late model Honda that this trick will work on is apparently beyond you. The 2GNT ECU is map based. Changing the crystal worked on some late model imports where that frequency governed timing and RPM limiting, but they haven't built PCMs that simple in fifteen years.

Tell ya what - you take your stock 96 ECU and prove to me that you're right and i'm wrong, and i'll shut the fuck up. Until then, quit being a pompous ass because I know you're full of shit.

ok, at least that last response was better than just a plain "You're bullshit, because I said so"

Thanks for telling us why.

I mentioned earlier than getting around the protective gel is hard, so the pic I posted OBVIOUSLY isnt a 2gnt ecu. It is a FWD Sr20 ecu NO GEL. I know 2gnt are map based, who doesnt. I sold my afx ecu for almost what I paid for it. replaced the crystal in my stock and got the same affects.

is there any way you can prove that?

im not trying to be a dick but im interested... im just wondering if what your saying is really true. can you get us pictures of yours?

Originally posted by TalonSpeed
I mentioned earlier than getting around the protective gel is hard, so the pic I posted OBVIOUSLY isnt a 2gnt ecu. It is a FWD Sr20 ecu NO GEL. I know 2gnt are map based, who doesnt. I sold my afx ecu for almost what I paid for it. replaced the crystal in my stock and got the same affects.

Replacing the bus clock crystal on a modern PCM will have nothing but adverse effects, because all its functions are MAP BASED (as in stored data in a table in the flash-stored ASM code) and not by the frequency of the data bus.

if you're not full of shit, then post the factory clock speed, the frequency of the crystal you replaced it with, and the perceived results.

Take a picture of your ECU showing the location of the bus clock crystal and evidence of its removal and replacement and i might believe you.

I still say it's bullshit. PROVE IT.

Originally posted by DarkOne
Replacing the bus clock crystal on a modern PCM will have nothing but adverse effects, because all its functions are MAP BASED (as in stored data in a table in the flash-stored ASM code) and not by the frequency of the data bus.

It's sad to see that it's gone this far. :nono

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by DarkOne Replacing the bus clock crystal on a modern PCM will have nothing but adverse effects, because all its functions are MAP BASED (as in stored data in a table in the flash-stored ASM code) and not by the frequency of the data bus.

It's sad to see that it's gone this far. :nono

Indeed. I'll stop now.

aww man. i needed a good laugh. i threw 30 crystals in my ecu. and gained 30 hp. it was crazy. one of them was a 3* timing at wot crystal. and another was +10psi super turbo power crystal

Originally posted by grain
aww man. i needed a good laugh. i threw 30 crystals in my ecu. and gained 30 hp. it was crazy. one of them was a 3* timing at wot crystal. and another was +10psi super turbo power crystal

lmao.

"Yeah, hold on... I forgot to put in the crystals" (Napoleon on the time machine)


Evan B
97 GS- FOR SALE
90 GSX-sold
Stamford CT
EvMan2345@aol.com

Originally posted by EvMan2345
"Yeah, hold on... I forgot to put in the crystals" (Napoleon on the time machine)

"It works Napoleon, you don't even know"

:LMFAO:

Originally posted by Bosey85
Hey guys, I have a question about the AF/X computer. I have a 99 Eclipse GS and I want a racing computer that will really work. I have heard nothing but good things about the AF/X computer. I was looking on Howell.com and they have AF/X computers for every year of neon. Will the AF/X computer from the 97-99 420a neon would work on my 99 eclipse? It looks almost identical to mine, but I heard that every other year of eclipse has different plugs for the computer wires. Thanks.

It will not work in your car. If it did, we would list it for both. We currently only make the 97. If we sold more 97's we would make the 98 and 99, but we have no plans to build the newer ones at this time.

stock speed 8.000002 replaced with 8.440

8.440/8 = 1.055

7250(stock revlimit) X 1.055 = 7648.75 (new rev limit)
The stock tach is off some, so it seems like 7700-7800.

I tried a 8.860 crystal this threw things off alot. The car didnt run good, i dont know if it was detonation or misfires (AFX may know the fix to this). All the crystal does is trick the ecu into thinking it is alot a lower rpm than it really is. The idle speed is raised, revlimiter raised, speed gov (if we had one) would be raised. Ignition maps, and fuel maps would be off some.

The way chrysler and nissan calculates things are way different. Nissan basically uses the same program for all their cars, but uses different correction factors for each motor. I was able to get Nissan's program from the dump port on the ecu. Chrysler doesnt have this.

I sold that ECU and my car some months go, it proved to be unreliable (the drivetrain not the ecu).

I didnt post this to bash AFX, they obviously have the pcm software, i dont.

But on another note:

I didnt post this to get called a liar and "owned" (<---that shit is old, let it go). This is one of the reasons I left the 2gnt community and went back to my favorite cars (Nissan). This community is too closed minded, any type of change and be prepared to get flamed. Do a search on outlaw engineering, they were ready to make some gaskets for us, but no i got flamed for bringing it up. funny thing is they just came out with some gaskets for the SR20VE (which is a rare motor, very few in the US) it gained 10hp at the wheels.

And besides the 2gnt is heavy and has ugly gearing making it slow, unless u are turbocharged, and then u better have that bottom end built or it will blow around 10psi. and since it is map based, be ready to run like 3-4 piggy back systems. I aint knocking a turbocharged 2gnt, but it just had too many if and or buts when it came to running boost.

I had my NA 2gnt heavily modified. head work, cams, bolt ons, lsd, afx ecu and it still was slow. with the wind to its back it might have ran a 14.9. But the car I got now with a sr20ve swap will run circles around any NA 2gnt and will probably stick with or beat any modified 4g63 with a stock turbo (cant hang with the big boys.....yet.

sorry about the rant, but i am sure others feel this way.

Originally posted by TalonSpeed
I didnt post this to bash AFX, they obviously have the pcm software, i dont. But on another note: I didnt post this to get called a liar and "owned" (<---that shit is old, let it go). This is one of the reasons I left the 2gnt community and went back to my favorite cars (Nissan). This community is too closed minded, any type of change and be prepared to get flamed. Do a search on outlaw engineering, they were ready to make some gaskets for us, but no i got flamed for bringing it up. funny thing is they just came out with some gaskets for the SR20VE (which is a rare motor, very few in the US) it gained 10hp at the wheels. And besides the 2gnt is heavy and has ugly gearing making it slow, unless u are turbocharged, and then u better have that bottom end built or it will blow around 10psi. and since it is map based, be ready to run like 3-4 piggy back systems. I aint knocking a turbocharged 2gnt, but it just had too many if and or buts when it came to running boost. I had my NA 2gnt heavily modified. head work, cams, bolt ons, lsd, afx ecu and it still was slow. with the wind to its back it might have ran a 14.9. But the car I got now with a sr20ve swap will run circles around any NA 2gnt and will probably stick with or beat any modified 4g63 with a stock turbo (cant hang with the big boys.....yet. sorry about the rant, but i am sure others feel this way.

I wouln't say that I am being closed minded, i just know how these ECUs work beyond the basic inputs. I've taken them apart, i've seen code dumps and looked at the maps / tables. I've read Chrysler's SAE papers on their design and function.

Changing the bus frequency might change what the tach displays (since that is frequency based, as is the speedo) however, i'd be willing to bet that if you monitored RPM with an optical pickup, that you were still only reaching 7200RPM.

10whp from a gasket.....

Not to change conversation, but I have an AFX Race unit ECU for sale for $330 over in the sale/wanted section. Oh yeah, I taped one of those gaskets on my hood and it was more like 9 Hp, I wouldn't go as far as to say 10hp, I'll have to dyno the car to see. :thumbsup
~Jeffo


Hey, have you seen my new tail lights? Yeah, cool huh, get used to looking at them.