came across this while edumacating myself a lotta bit, add this one to your pages o' 420a. a lot of this you probably already know, but i think everyone with a 420a should read this

http://www.bwdautomotive.com/datastream/fall_data_stream/page4.html

Chrysler 2.0L and 2.4L
Ignition Systems Components
and Operation

The ignition system consists of a crankshaft position sensor, camshaft position sensor, PCM, ignition coil pack, plus the usual spark plug wires and plugs. The crankshaft position sensor is a 3-wire hall-effect sensor that triggers off a specially machined crankshaft counterweight. The counterweight has two sets of 4 notches machined into it. The crankshaft position sensor is hardwired to the PCM. The PCM uses the sensor to calculate engine RPM, TDC #1 and #4, coil synchronization and cam-crank misalignment (for diagnostics).

The 9-volt power supply from the PCM, 5-volt signal line from the PCM, and a sensor ground circuit all lead to the sensor. As the crankshaft rotates, the signal line voltage fluctuates between 5 and 0 volts. The way the camshaft position sensor works is similar to the crank sensor in that it is also a 3-wire hall-effect sensor, and is hardwired to the PCM. This gives the PCM cylinder identification, plus it is used for fuel-injector synchronization.

A target magnet, attached to the end of the cam shaft, has 4 different poles. As the camshaft rotates, so does the magnet. The cam sensor has identical electrical circuits going to it, just like the crank sensor, 9-volt power supply, 5-volt signal line, and sensor ground. As the cam (and magnet) rotate, the 5-volt signal line voltage fluctuates from 5 volts to 0 volts. Once the PCM has both sensor inputs, it can determine which coil to control and which injector to energize.

The igntion coil pack has battery voltage supplied from the Auto Shutdown Relay. The PCM controls the saturation of the ignition coils. The two coils, built into a single housing, are serviced as an assembly. The PCM determines which coil to fire, based on the crankshaft/camshaft inputs (Fig. 2).

The PCM energizes the coil and at some point (timing) before the crankshaft sensor indicated TDC, it releases the ground from the coil to produce a spark. The timing is controlled 100% by the PCM and is not adjustable. Since the ignition coil primary winding has low resistance (.5 ohms), current flow is limited to about 8 amps. The current limiting function is provided by internal circuits inside the PCM.

The coils are arranged with cylinders #1 and 4 on one coil and #2 and 3 on the other coil. On most coils, the secondary resistance is 11.5K-13.5K. Output is around 40KV per coil. To test the coil output, use two adjustable spark testers set to around 20KV each or about a 1/4 inch gap each. With both spark plug wires on the spark tester at the same time, there should be enough spark to jump the gap of both testers at the same time. Test the other coil pack the same way.

BWD Automotive Corp. offers more than .1,000 engine management sensors in .16 product categories for domestic and .foreign manufactured vehicles!

good read...everyone should have this book marked IMO :thumbsup

Not really usable but interesting nontheless - > www.smartplugs.com

Diesel rotary baby! hehe

Originally posted by Ark
Not really usable

...:wary

i used this exact article to test if the cam magnet for the 2.4 swap was working right (fluctuates 0-5v) so id say it was helpful, if you have the use for it.

Sounds like the TIM. The TIM is a PDF that would be excellent shitter reading.

I don't think Dino will mind me posting the link...
http://www.nochoads.org/files/Tech_Info_Man.pdf

Check out pages 1-19 and 1-20.

I am going to have to go check my schematic in the morning but if i remember correctly our crank and cam sensor have a 12v signal to it from the ASD instead of 9v. If someone has thier book handy can you look it up. Perhaps i got this confused along the way.

Terry

96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver

97 Eclipse.........

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
I am going to have to go check my schematic in the morning but if i remember correctly our crank and cam sensor have a 12v signal to it from the ASD instead of 9v. If someone has thier book handy can you look it up. Perhaps i got this confused along the way. Terry 96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver 97 Eclipse.........

yup i was correct the crank and cam sensor VSS, MAP, IGN COIL, TPS, intake temp, coolant temp, ect receive 12+ from the ASD relay relay not 9v so the above info is wrong.

Terry


96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver

97 Eclipse.........

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
yup i was correct

No you weren't. None of the above noted sensors are 12v+. They are all either 9v+ ot 5v+.

Check it yourself. Pin 44, yellow wire. should be 8-9v+. Pin 61 green / yellow stripe, 4.5-5.5V+.

the schematic clearly show one of the wires on the sensors comming right from the Asd. I cant post a picture of the schematic but take a look.

Terry
96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver

97 Eclipse.........

I've seen the schematics. None of the sensors are powered directly off the ASD relay. The COIL is, but none of the sensors.

Believe me, i traced out the entire MFI system circuit diagram in the FSM building an ECU pinout. I know where they get power from, ground from, and what color the signal wires are.

Originally posted by DarkOne
I've seen the schematics. None of the sensors are powered directly off the ASD relay. The COIL is, but none of the sensors. Believe me, i traced out the entire MFI system circuit diagram in the FSM building an ECU pinout. I know where they get power from, ground from, and what color the signal wires are.

Dino you are absolutely correct i took my meter to my car to verify. Here is the problem though.....The chiltons diagram is dead wrong then. That is what i have based my info on in the past also........i feel so retarded. I have given out a lot of misguided info based on this damn book, i should know better. You need to get the book and look at page 6-44. All the sensors i listed above got to distribution j/c 3 (cont from top of page). at top of page the distribution is all 12+. That is the problem. the wires comming from all the sensors listed above are the ground wires. these are two separate distributions and one needs to be labled as ground. Do you see it. If not i must get a copy to you, i cant believe i didnt find it till now.

I have to bounce this off mitchell on demand later see what that shows.


Terry

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
The chiltons diagram is dead wrong then

I know. I have a chilton's for laughs - i like to read it and point out all the things in it that are backasswards to my friends, who look at me like i'm insane and call me a car dork.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
I have to bounce this off mitchell on demand later see what that shows.

They're correct. I have the 97 and 98 diagrams. Get me a 96 diagram.

Better yet man how would you like the whole program?

Terry

Hook me up! Yer fuckin right I'd like it.

Originally posted by DarkOne
Hook me up! Yer fuckin right I'd like it.

me too me too

spairjd.ctr@pendleton.usmc.mil

Originally posted by DarkOne
call me a car dork.

wtf is a "car dork"? I understand computer nerd, and am one, but who would call somebody a car dork? and why?

I cant find the diagrams on your site dino....I will have to wait till i get home toexplain what wire i was looking at i guess.

Terry
96 Eagle Talon ESI....Daily driver

97 Eclipse.........