I'm thinking of rebuilding my '97' Eagle Talon Non-Turbo engine to push maybe 300HP as a project (trying to achieve something hard for me to do) Will upgradeing fuel system and lines be affective in my goal & what stage clutch should I use if any? Also if you have any idea's on what I should do to gain some hourse power on this Engine 420A - 2.0L. I'm all ready gonna start on the exhaust(2.5 w/ Headers) and I just need some more idea's on what to do. Not trying to spend a whole lot, but just enough money to achieve this goal. (I'm not doing Nitrous)

Originally posted by ryuhayabasa
I'm thinking of rebuilding my '97' Eagle Talon Non-Turbo engine to push maybe 300HP as a project (trying to achieve something hard for me to do)

GOod luck.

Originally posted by ryuhayabasa
Will upgradeing fuel system and lines be affective in my goal?

No. You haven't done anything that would require any more fuel flow.

Originally posted by ryuhayabasa
what stage clutch should I use if any?

NA, stock is fine.

Originally posted by ryuhayabasa
Also if you have any idea's on what I should do to gain some hourse power on this Engine 420A - 2.0L. I'm all ready gonna start on the exhaust(2.5 w/ Headers) and I just need some more idea's on what to do.

Underdrive pulley, cold air intake, bored throttlebody, AFX ECU (because you're a 97).

Originally posted by ryuhayabasa
Not trying to spend a whole lot, but just enough money to achieve this goal. (I'm not doing Nitrous)

You're going to spend a lot trying to make 300HP out of a NA 2.0L 420A. Just FYI.

Originally posted by ryuhayabasa Not trying to spend a whole lot, but just enough money to achieve this goal. (I'm not doing Nitrous)

You're going to spend a lot trying to make 300HP out of a NA 2.0L 420A. Just FYI.

how about he has no chance of making 300HP NA and in anyway is going to be cheap.that's way out of your league, keep dreaming...go turbo!

im just curious about your experience with the 420a and building HP in general?

not gonna happen, anyone wanna bet $100 ??? any takers???
and to answer your main question, NOO you will just have alot of problems that aren't necessary. Until you get some absolute DRAG grind cams there is NO need to even upgrade any part of our fuel system. Other than that listen to Dino

my car will sound like, bumbabumbubavrooooooooooooooomrooooooooahhhhhhhhhhhhh, kishhhhhh
www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=643
VW= The joy of driving
DSM= The frustration of fixing

I'm not familiar with the 420A engine, but I was just asking to see if it was possible and for some interesting project to do. You mentioned AFX ECU. What does an AFX ECU do for me and where can I get one.

Originally posted by ryuhayabasa
I'm not familiar with the 420A engine, but I was just asking to see if it was possible and for some interesting project to do. You mentioned AFX ECU. What does an AFX ECU do for me and where can I get one.

http://www.howellautomotive.com/Howell/Store/catalog/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=142_38_299&products_id=986

300HP youll need:

2.2L stroker motor w/ 12.5:1 compression
an uber head with crane #18 cams, p&p, new blah blah blah
cold air intake, long tube header, 2.5 exhaust
some sort of engine managment
afx underdrive pulley, no power steering
ALOT of tuning

probably a better raditor, some sort of oil cooling kit, new calipers...... an easy 10 grand and thats not including all the other shit i cant think of...


i saw a neon with that setup.. and he's probably running low 13's...

high HP & all motor isnt the way to go, unless u have alot of money, know how, and time...u could make a MUCH nastier turbo setup for that much money

I would say ^^^ but instead , Crane 22 cams and a 2.6L Stratus stroker block.

i would straight out put a gun to my head to waste that much money for that much stuff.

Originally posted by Initial DSM
I would say ^^^ but instead , Crane 22 cams and a 2.6L Stratus stroker block.

*tim allen grunt*

Originally posted by ryuhayabasa
I'm not familiar with the 420A engine

trust us!! you need to be before you just start bolting shit up to it. you WILL NOT even come close to you "goal" without proper knowledge.


question to everyone else: does this guy seem a little to weirdly ignorant about things to be real... or is it just me?

Originally posted by tim97rs
question to everyone else: does this guy seem a little to weirdly ignorant about things to be real... or is it just me?

I think he sounds like someone just getting into his car and not knowing shit about it. I think he sounds like someone who's got ideas of what he wants out of his car and came here to learn a thing or two since he obviously figured out this site is indefinitely more useful to him than any other site for DSMs. Not everyone out there has a general idea of how things work and you have to keep in mind the ricer propaganda in every tuner magazine and TV show advertising 20hp with a CAI or an exhaust. It's no wonder the uneducated Joe thinks 300hp is attainable all-motor if he's only got 2 posts at 2GNT for Christ's sake!

Just this one time man, could we take a break from championing the anti-no0b quest and maybe take it upon ourselves to represent 2GNT as the resource it is? It's not like he asked about electric turbo or farty flame throwers, or even the remote skunk ass ignitors. He asked about fuel mods which will serve him well in the future when he decides to get nasty with his car like most of do after spending a few months here. }(

And to the no0b:
Your goal of 300hp NA on stock displacement is about as close to impossible as you can get man. If I'm lucky, this summer, after I drop about 5 grand into the motor (not the car, the motor), I'll be lucky to break the 200hp mark at the crank. If I do, I'm pretty sure I'll be the first. I'm also hoping to be the fastest NA too. That's a lot of money to invest on a maybe imo. If you want to give the all-motor path a shot, you've come to the right board. If you want to slap a turbo on that pig and bolt up 80hp in a weekend, you've come to the right board. All you gotta do is at least try to use the search and do a little homework for yourself before you post a question and you will be golden. Welcome aboard. :thumbsup

DR1665 - teh no0b's hero (as I've been told) :P

Thanks man. I'll keep reading and studing on this motor. I was just trying to find out if it was possible or not. Just something to try to achieve in, like something new that no one has done before and at least feel happy about it. Thanks for the info...

why does the AFX ECU only work on the 97 model?

Originally posted by ajcfalcon
why does the AFX ECU only work on the 97 model?

Apparently, Howell did all their testing and prototyping for the design on a 1997 ECU. The ECUs from other years are either simply wired differently at the connector or internally, the computer is completely different (as is the case in the 98 vs 99).

So I think, and I may be wrong here:

95 - OBD1
96 - connector wired differently
97 - the year you should've bought (like me ;) )
98 - ECU is different all together
99 - ECU is even MORE different

Pretty sure that's right, but it's up for correction. :P

i read the link... but does the afx ecu really help that much? how you think it'd help me with my: cai, headers, 55mm tb, gutted cat, 3" str8 muffler, and next week venom 1000 setup? (dont mean 2 steal thread)

Dave-

Originally posted by Dualgen2 Damn Brynden, always picking on me on here but so nice on AIM. Stop toying w/ my emotions. Do you love me or not? I'm gonna go cry now. -Dave

Originally posted by DR1665
GODDAMN! Whole lotta HEF goin' on in here! Sound the alarm!

If you're not going turbo in the near future, the AFX ECU can only help you. Dino tested one on the dyno and picked up some decent gains on a near stock engine. (See main page for the review) The nice thing about this ECU is that it adapts to your mods. Instead of a TB giving you 5hp, maybe now it gives you 7. It makes all your supporting mods more productive I think. I don't know what that Venom 1000 thing is, but if it's that computer thing, it's not doing much for you from what I hear and the AFX unit would replace that entirely.

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by tim97rs question to everyone else: does this guy seem a little to weirdly ignorant about things to be real... or is it just me?

I think he sounds like someone just getting into his car and not knowing shit about it. I think he sounds like someone who's got ideas of what he wants out of his car and came here to learn a thing or two since he obviously figured out this site is indefinitely more useful to him than any other site for DSMs. Not everyone out there has a general idea of how things work and you have to keep in mind the ricer propaganda in every tuner magazine and TV show advertising 20hp with a CAI or an exhaust. It's no wonder the uneducated Joe thinks 300hp is attainable all-motor if he's only got 2 posts at 2GNT for Christ's sake! Just this one time man, could we take a break from championing the anti-no0b quest and maybe take it upon ourselves to represent 2GNT as the resource it is? It's not like he asked about electric turbo or farty flame throwers, or even the remote skunk ass ignitors. He asked about fuel mods which will serve him well in the future when he decides to get nasty with his car like most of do after spending a few months here.

WHOA!!! Easy Doc, i wasn't meanin to flame the guy or noob bash, his questions just didnt seem like the typical 420a uneducated questions that usualy come along. They seemed like questions asked from someone who did have knowledge and was just being an ass and screwin with us.

to the noob: welcome aboard!

Venom 1000 = nitrous

welcome to the board. boost is the most economical solution for your 300hp quest. start slowly, learn your car, then pick your poison. }(

If you're really looking to make 300HP (notice he never said 300 WHEEL HP) I think it's fairly attainable. Here is where I think you should start and how to work a small budget on it. This will require you to do alot yourself to cut cost.

2.4L motor swap. Get forged pistons only to bump up your compression. At least 11.5:1 minimum. Keep the stock rods I doubt you'll be able to bust them. You may want to cyro and shot peen for some added strength. Make sure it's properly balanced ... you'll be needing to rev it up to make power (max we can go is 8.2K with a AFX ECU).

The extra .4L of displacement will make all your mods come to life. You'll have the ability to have an extra .4L a/f to combust now and this will make power. The next steps are increasing your motors efficiency to get in all that air.

Get the AFX ECU. It has more agressive timing and fuel curves and have shown 10+WHP gains on a dyno with a mostly stock car. This will help you imensely in my opinion. And you get a 8.2K rev limit but this may require you to upgrade your valve train to run to the limit safely repeatedly.

Then get an UDP and free up HP loss spent driving your accesories.

Get your standard intake, exhaust, headers, and a larger TB. The next big thing you will need are cams. The bigger the cams you get the more your idle will be affected (less vacuum at idle results in more fuel dumped in). If this is going to be a daily driver get some sort of fuel piggy back at this point as well to clean that up a bit. The cams will make a HUGE difference because the stock cams are very conservative.

Porting of the intake manifold and the head should be after that. I don't recommend huge porting in the head. Just enough to get an increase in airflow and port match.

That should get your really far with good tuning. If you are still short of your goal there is a few things left aside from NOS and boost.

You can look into making an ITB (idividual throttle body) setup. If done correctly this can net you 20-30HP but you will loose torque and low end in the process. The next thing won't affect power output but will increase the "speed" of the car and is weight reduction. Chunk out as much extra weight to increase your power to weight ratio.

All that is going to take alot of time and will be more expensive that getting like a stage 2 kit but it'll be a completely differnt sort of car than a boosted car. It's actually really nice to have that different feel and I commend you if you decide to try it.

NOW SIDE NOTE FOR ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE THAT POSTED IN THIS THREAD. I have one word for you ... Moo.

This thread scared me so I asked my g/f whether a bigger fuel pump would add more horsepower on a nonturbo car.

She looked at me funny and said "why the hell would you want a big fuel pump if you're not putting anything else in? Like.. air or something"

:love

Originally posted by thedawg
This thread scared me so I asked my g/f whether a bigger fuel pump would add more horsepower on a nonturbo car. She looked at me funny and said "why the hell would you want a big fuel pump if you're not putting anything else in? Like.. air or something" :love

sounds like a keeper :thumbsup

I didnt even take the time to read all of the above...I jsut wanted to say....

300hp...NA....IMPOSSIBLE.

Edit: For a 420A at least.