well, i threw the timing belt, and supposedly there is no valve damage due to the 8.8:1 compression on the JE pistons. Ive replaced the belt, but it wont start. SO i did some looking around and notice that even though everything is perfectly lines up, after doing 2 complete revolutions by hand, the cam gears are about 2 teeth off. Ive redone everything about 12 times now, and everytime Ive done it the cam gears are about 2 teeth off again. WHY THE HELL IS THIS???

take off the timing belt, start over....start at the crank, go around the water pump and make sure the teeth are perfectly tight all the way, then around the idler pulley, over the cam gears (lined up teetj all perfect, no slack in the belt, over the other gear, around the tensioner and have someone keep 22ftlbs of torque on the tensioner pulley while you put on the tensioner, slide it up until it touches the seat on the tensioner pulley bracket, put in the tensioner bolts, torque to spec, now pull out the nail or pin you have in the tensioner, if there is no slack in the line, it should be fine. check the timing sprocket and arrow on the oil pump line up and the cam egars are lined up centerline, two full clockwise rotations and you should be good


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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

I'm sure you bent some valves man. Even though its low comp, it IS still an interferance motor, as I know people who have bent valves before with this setup. Even if its a few teeth off, it will still run..

Originally posted by XtremeRS
I'm sure you bent some valves man. Even though its low comp, it IS still an interferance motor, as I know people who have bent valves before with this setup. Even if its a few teeth off, it will still run..

how could you bend valves if at TDC with valves open the piston doesnt touch the valves? its impossible. JE 8:8's ive heard are non interferance



_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

if that is true, i may end up going 8.8 and going stage 2 low boost turbo. :-) what is the actual truth? anyone?

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by XtremeRS I'm sure you bent some valves man. Even though its low comp, it IS still an interferance motor, as I know people who have bent valves before with this setup. Even if its a few teeth off, it will still run..

how could you bend valves if at TDC with valves open the piston doesnt touch the valves? its impossible. JE 8:8's ive heard are non interferance

What you "heard" was inaccurate. Matt_955tgs bent 4+ valves when his tensioner bolt broke off, using the JE 8.8:1 pistons. So it still IS an interfearance engine. The motor isn't starting most likely because there is no compression on one or more cylinders, because the valve's are not seating fully, since they are bent. Now trying to see if the valve is bent, is decieving. Sometimes you can't really tell. It only takes just a very tiny gap from the valve to not hit the seat, and it will not seal any pressure. When we say "bent valves" its not like the valve is going to be all bent askew or anything like that...just enough to not make it seal onto the valve seat.

Maybe this info from Bob Stockum's site could help if it isn't your valves afterall.

"One of the most important issues, when pre-loading the belt, before removing the pin, ... is to turn the engine around a couple of times and re-tightening the belt and locking down the two adjuster bolts.

It is very easy to "trap some slack", on the water-pump side of the system. You won't know it is there, but it will release itself when the engine is turned over. If you don't "CATCH IT", before pulling the pin on the hydraulic unit, .... the tensioner unit will be OUT OF TRAVEL and will not properly hold the tension on the belt.

Most of this is common sense, ... but not knowing the "slack" problem, " ahead of time", ... you might not think about it and could be unhappy with the results!"

Tony

3rd time ive typed this! FUCK, so annoying

Originally posted by XtremeRS
What you "heard" was inaccurate. Matt_955tgs bent 4+ valves when his tensioner bolt broke off, using the JE 8.8:1 pistons. So it still IS an interfearance engine.

thura "heard" it too

Originally posted by Avenger
I remember someone finding out that using 8.8:1 pistons turned the 420a into a non-interferance motor but that was probably with stock cams.

i know the wisecos are non-interferance :shrug

Originally posted by XtremeRS When we say "bent valves" its not like the valve is going to be all bent askew or anything like that...just enough to not make it seal onto the valve seat.

this is true, however...in some cases its fairly obvious you bent a valve.



dan (thedawg) in a recent e-mail:

"Dunno dood, mine was non-interference.

It's entirely possible that with different valvetrain parts,
cam gears, headgaskets, and machining differences, you could
bend valves even with JE 8.8:1s... I don't doubt it, but I'm
pretty sure they were designed to be non-interference on a
stock head.

Mine was with a 4 layer MLS, PT valvetrain, and stock cams
and sprockets with Eagle rods."
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

Where is the "proof" that the 8.8:1's are non interfearance? I don't give a shit what anyone "hears". I have seen first hand, of bent valves with this setup. I don't know how much more proof you need than that :scratch To the poster of this topic: When you get your T belt back on, do a compression test. Money on bent valves..if not, i'll eat my words..:bash

when you pulled the head did you take a look at any of the valves to see if they have any dents or marks on the face or anything?
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

didnt pull the head yet, wasnt sure if there was valve damage or not, just figured I would get the belt on first and see what happens. Then I get the belt on and it still wont start..guess its time to pull the head. Dammit. Im just still confused as to why the marks all line up for the timing, but after a few revolutions they are off by a couple teeth. Maybe I'm trapping the slack somewhere else on the belt?

Originally posted by xtreme96gs
didnt pull the head yet, wasnt sure if there was valve damage or not, just figured I would get the belt on first and see what happens. Then I get the belt on and it still wont start..guess its time to pull the head. Dammit. Im just still confused as to why the marks all line up for the timing, but after a few revolutions they are off by a couple teeth. Maybe I'm trapping the slack somewhere else on the belt?

Are you putting 20 ft lbs of torque on the tensioner pulley when you are tightening the tensioner plunger?? You HAVE to do this with a click-type torque wrench, and having a helper do this makes it much easier. You do have the pin through the plunger holes when you first put it on right? If the tension is right, you should be able to put that pin through the plunger, in and out without it hanging up.

Me and my friends just went through all the head gasket crap. So gay, so gay. No valve troubles or anything, just fun to see people going through all the troubles. We actually got the timing perfect the first try. I can put a pin in and out of the auto-tensioner. Now my friend wonders if he remembered to torque the tensioner bolts. Blah.


1996 Eclipse RS / 5-Speed / Aerogear Body / Coated in Magnetic Red Metallic rev.2 / T3 Turbo Intercooled @ 8 psi / More at http://home.insightbb.com/~mgalyan/
Mark Galyan - Indianapolis, Indiana

Are you putting 20 ft lbs of torque on the tensioner pulley when you are tightening the tensioner plunger?? You HAVE to do this with a click-type torque wrench, and having a helper do this makes it much easier.

make sure you do this. did you turn the crank sprocket a half tooth back before you pull the pin?

yes i did all that stuff

i'd say you have a bad tensioner then. that would be my only clue. theres really no way for any of the other stuff to just move unless you have a bent valve or something stopping it.

When you say 2 teeth off, are you saying the cam gears are 2 teeth off relative to each other, or relative to the crank?

If they are relative to each other, your issue is the tension and you better have the belt tension as high as possible BETWEEN the cam gears when installing. Shouldn't even matter a damn how you looped the belt through the rest of the idle gears and whatnot. The cam gears should always stay in sync because there is only like a few inches of belt between the two of them. I don't see how tension could mess that part up. regardless of that though, how old is the tensioner if I may ask

If it's 2 teeth off relative to the crank TDC mark, sounds like you were given the wrong size belt or something. Of course, with every revolution the gears would get farther and farther off.