Ok guys, I've talked to 3 people thus far and they and I agree on one possibility, so I'm goin to post this problem to see if anyone else has gotten it. Here's the story: I rebuilt my engine completely in August, hit a pothole/chunk in the road in November which busted my oil pan and I spun a bearing. I bought an almost new crank out of a neon, replaced the rod that spun and bearings and oil pump, that sorta thing. I did the rebuild this week and finished it last night. I did plastigauge the rod bearings, not the mains, b/c I couldnt figure out how to w/o messin them up, and I did no line bore the bedplate and block (they are the same block and bedplate as before) The one rod bearing spun which I replaced the rod, and the middle main bearing spun (the one that has the lips to prevent side-to-side movement), it didnt spin bad, just scraped the inside of the bearin a lil' bit, not the outside of it at all. So I didnt get the machined or anything, they seemed to be fine. I replaced all my bearings torqued them. crank spun freely as uaual. started it up last night and I have it ran great for a few minutes and then started knockin again. I checked it out today and I have tons of coolant in my oil pan. I was a retard and used my used head gasket, but bought new bolts. the gasket was only used for 3 months so I thought it was ok. guess not. My main question is, do you think the headgasket leak is the cause of the knocking, since coolant/water isnt good lube? Please provide some help guys, I'm desperate and poor at the same time now thanks. peace

The knocking is very faint by the way. And I can not tell if it goes w/ the rpms' or not, b/c its so faint and my exhaust is so loud, but I"m assuming it does, since it isnt lubricated properly. the car was driven from the garage to my house (5 miles) and I know it was ok b/c the check engine light didnt come on until I was about a mile away from the garage, and I super lubed everything, so I dont think I spun anything (knock on wood)...

Originally posted by stv
Ok guys, I've talked to 3 people thus far and they and I agree on one possibility, so I'm goin to post this problem to see if anyone else has gotten it. Here's the story: I rebuilt my engine completely in August, hit a pothole/chunk in the road in November which busted my oil pan and I spun a bearing. I bought an almost new crank out of a neon, replaced the rod that spun and bearings and oil pump, that sorta thing. I did the rebuild this week and finished it last night. I did plastigauge the rod bearings, not the mains, b/c I couldnt figure out how to w/o messin them up, and I did no line bore the bedplate and block (they are the same block and bedplate as before) The one rod bearing spun which I replaced the rod, and the middle main bearing spun (the one that has the lips to prevent side-to-side movement), it didnt spin bad, just scraped the inside of the bearin a lil' bit, not the outside of it at all. So I didnt get the machined or anything, they seemed to be fine. I replaced all my bearings torqued them. crank spun freely as uaual. started it up last night and I have it ran great for a few minutes and then started knockin again. I checked it out today and I have tons of coolant in my oil pan. I was a retard and used my used head gasket, but bought new bolts. the gasket was only used for 3 months so I thought it was ok. guess not. My main question is, do you think the headgasket leak is the cause of the knocking, since coolant/water isnt good lube? Please provide some help guys, I'm desperate and poor at the same time now thanks. peace

first off i just want to say im sorry, i know and have had the same headaches before. my point to any of you who read this is use plastigauge on EVERYTHING you can (yes, even the cams to cam caps when assembling a head) once you use it and see how easy it is...you'll never build another motor without it. if i were you i would have tested those mains though. even 2 paper widths of distance is enough for you to almost instantly spin a bearing and potentially cause SERIOUS damage to your engine. i dont know what to say man, but it sounds to me like maybe your crank was turned on the main bearing journals and you used the wrong size bearings, again *2* paperwidths, there is NO way you can see that with your naked eye, it must be plastigauged.....theres no way to tell now exactly the gap between the crank and mains unless you tear down the whole motor again and i KNOW you dont want to do that, but DO NOT let it knock, you put your engine seriously risk when you do. dont get caught hangin out with your rod out

Originally posted by stv
The knocking is very faint by the way. And I can not tell if it goes w/ the rpms' or not, b/c its so faint and my exhaust is so loud, but I"m assuming it does, since it isnt lubricated properly. the car was driven from the garage to my house (5 miles) and I know it was ok b/c the check engine light didnt come on until I was about a mile away from the garage, and I super lubed everything, so I dont think I spun anything (knock on wood)...

like i was saying before, *2* paperwidths even man....enough to wreck your day, knocking is NOT good and you wont get a CEL for it, the problem will only escalate and before you know it, owned. trust me man, i'd just take it apart and make sure your investment is insured by you yourself checking it. besides, you need to change the hg anyway right?

im sorry man ;( i hate to be the bearer of bad news, but sounds to me like you could quite possibly be in a shit locker, even more so if you dont fix this potentially serious problem soon


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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

Thanks for the quick reply Josh.. Yeah that is my biggest fear, I really do not want to tear the whole thing down again, but I just may anyways. I was hoping that since my lubricant had nothing but coolant in it, it was making the bearings knock, but if and when I tear it down again, I will plastigauge everything as you said, even the cams. what specific gaps am I looking to read on all those things? I'm talkin rod bearings, main bearings and cam journals? I have a chiltons, but it is hard to find, I have looked for it for the past week now and cant find it.. thanks though

One thing he didn't mention is headgaskets are not reuseable! That's why your fluids are mixing. You should even get your head checked for flatness, and milled if neccessary, every time you unbolt it.

Originally posted by stv
Thanks for the quick reply Josh.. Yeah that is my biggest fear, I really do not want to tear the whole thing down again, but I just may anyways. I was hoping that since my lubricant had nothing but coolant in it, it was making the bearings knock, but if and when I tear it down again, I will plastigauge everything as you said, even the cams. what specific gaps am I looking to read on all those things? I'm talkin rod bearings, main bearings and cam journals? I have a chiltons, but it is hard to find, I have looked for it for the past week now and cant find it.. thanks though

sure thing dude. couple things though....you dont need to check the gaps ont he cam caps if you didnt dissassemble the head or swap cam caps or antyhing, if the head came off a running motor, its fine....you dont need to plastigauge it. and in response to wickedESi's post....you actually CAN re-use headgaskets (MLS, not composite) if its in reasonably good shape, if in doubt, throw it out...and in your case, yes, i'd just go get a new MLS headgasket so no more headache from that. i'll post up the tolerances for the mains in a couple minutes :thumbsup



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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

http://www.nochoads.org/files/2gnt_420a_overhaul.pdf

go here, scoll down to page 6

let me know if you need any more help man
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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

ok thanks guys. Yeah I knew you werent suppose to use a used headgasket, but since mine was only 3 months old, I was thinkin it was ok to use. I used some gasket sealer on it also, to help provide extra protection, but that may have ended up messin me up some. it was yamabond..which is an aerobic sealer for motorcycle engines, I figured it was ok to use, the only difference in it and loctite 18red or whatever its called, is this flattens inself and the loctite beads/streams. Hey Josh do you think I should go ahead and pull the engine again, or try just replacing the headgasket and seeing if that will allow my internals to be lubed w/ oil not coolant and maybe stop the ticking???

Originally posted by stv
Hey Josh do you think I should go ahead and pull the engine again, or try just replacing the headgasket and seeing if that will allow my internals to be lubed w/ oil not coolant and maybe stop the ticking???

i'd be so paranoid that i'd spun a bearing i'd rip the whole motor out and re-do it all, just for the sake of paranoia





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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

haha ok.. I am just trying to think of anything I can to prevent takin it out again, but ok.. I was just hoping the knocking since it is very small, like a tick, would just be caused from the bearings thirst for oil and not water/coolant.. but dizamn, looks like I'll be down for another week.. thanks man

Originally posted by stv
haha ok.. I am just trying to think of anything I can to prevent takin it out again, but ok.. I was just hoping the knocking since it is very small, like a tick, would just be caused from the bearings thirst for oil and not water/coolant.. but dizamn, looks like I'll be down for another week.. thanks man

let it idle and stick your head down by the block/crank and see if theres where the ticking is coming from...also it will be VERY audible at around 3-4K (danger zone to say the least too though)



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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

yeah it seems to be in that area, I didnt really rev it that high, but its comin from there.. I was just sayin I was hoping if I got the headgasket part fixed, that the oil would go in and take care of that thirsting bearing, hell even if I took the dp off and dropped the oil pan and replaced the bearing that was ticking ( I'm assuming I Could move the rod that's infected) but maybe not.. I just keep looking at my hands and feel the pain in them and in my arms from the fiberglass and all the cuts and scrapes and really dont wanna take it out again, but if I HAVE to then I will, I love Roxanne, so whatever she needs I'll do. I just wished she needed to be turbo'd and that's it.. money hungry bitch

Originally posted by stv
hell even if I took the dp off and dropped the oil pan and replaced the bearing that was ticking ( I'm assuming I Could move the rod that's infected) but maybe not..

i thought you said it was the MAINS, you cant change those without pullin the motor sad to say :(



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96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

I dont know what bearing it is.. do the actual main bearings knock when one is spun? I am going to see which it is, hopefully it isnt spun too bad that a polish and a replacement cant fix. I dont know though.

Originally posted by stv
I dont know what bearing it is.. do the actual main bearings knock when one is spun? I am going to see which it is, hopefully it isnt spun too bad that a polish and a replacement cant fix. I dont know though.

well it would be spun because of the gap between the crank and bearing is to much, causing to much play in the crank and gouging the bearings. more than likely, if one bearing is undersized, all of them are....you'll need to get oversized bearings or something, check it all with plastigauge and make sure its all to spec



_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

I know the bearings arent undersized, it was a std crank and std bearings.. if that's what you are saying.. unless you mean I need oversized ones now since it is spun.. thanks man for all the replies though.

As far as plastiguage-ing your bearings, I'd follow the advice given.

As far as your head, you should take it to the machine shop and get it resurfaced along with replacing the head gasket. The machine shop my stuff is at is charging me 40 bucks for the head resurfacing, so that should give you an idea of how much that service should cost.

Sorry about you havin' to take it apart again bro....cross your fingers for me cuz I start my block assembly next week sometime.

Tony

yeah definately good luck man.. my first rebuild went like a dream, my car ran better than ever, til I fucked it up and hit the hole in the road which screwed my oil pan up and spun the bearing, which is where I am at now still. yeah make sure everything it torqued down properly and DO NOT use sealant on your headgasket, mine was a 3 month old mls headgasket, eventhough it was used I used sealant on it to help it seal which I think ended up screwin everything up.. but g'luck man.. thanks for the reply. peace

ok I know I should do a better search, I tried and for some reason every search topic that comes up, comes up x 2, so you only get to read actually half of them per page, its just annoying, I'm not being lazy, just very confusing sometimes if I have read it yet..anyways.. where is the cheapest place to get a mls? kise? just curious, thanks.. oh and napa carries head bolts for like 23 bucks, so I'm going for them, grind the one and go w/ that.. hope they are worthy bolts.. thanks fellas