Ok fellas, here is my idea and why I have my idea:
I totally rebuilt my engine over the summer, and my luck, I am drivin w/ my girl, hit a pothole/chunk missin in the road, due to bad weather we've had. I kept driving, b/c I've hit a pothole before, nothing special about this one I didnt think.. well I keep on driving, my oil light doesnt come on (why I dont know)..and bamb heard the noise that was the reason I rebuilt my engine over the summer.
Now that brings me to my idea. Our oil pans are crap.. 100% of every oilpan that I've seen is full of dents, maybe its just how us VA guys drive I dont know. Anyways, I took measurements of our stock oil pans and designed a new one which I am going to get made, but first I have some questions. I will post pics of the dwgs that I did using autocad as soon as Justin gets online so he can host them for me haha. I also have it in a 3d model form. After the design, I can make the total oilpan over one inch minimum shorter than the stock pan. Thats the main reason for the dents b/c the damn thing is too low. It also is designed w/ for easier and better draining. This design is fairly simple and does allow plenty of space for the crank to do its work as well as the oil pick up tube. I think after doing the rest of the design w/ the machinist, I can make it maybe 2 inches shorter, which will definately be nice.
My questions: what would be a good metal to use? (I'm assuming aluminum, ours is aluminum I'm pretty sure and its 2 ply) I would make it also 2 ply b/c of more controlled expansion when heated. My other question is, to prevent dents from turning into holes/cracks, what thickness should this be, right now I have it designed w/ 3/16" walls..which is alot thicker than it is stock. one ply being 1/16" and the outer being 1/8". Any thought will be taken into consideration. This may not seem like a big matter to you, but if you spun a bearing in a new engine b/c of the damn oil pan being so low a NORMAL pot hole could bust it, then you would too.. thanks guys.

With your shorter pan and pickup would there still be the enough oil to keep the rest of the engine soaked, while still haveing enough to keep the crank soaked?

I think it would be a better idea to fab up a dry sump.

just get a baffled pan and dont drive over potholes/rocks/people.

Originally posted by Uberingram
just get a baffled pan and dont drive over potholes/rocks/people.

haha, if I would have saw it, I would have dodged it, if you knew how the roads were here, you'd understand. It will benefit me for that reason and I dont wanna chance it again, thanks for the input thus far. keep 'em comin

just get a baffled pan and dont drive over potholes/rocks/people.


Don't drive over people? You're asking way to much there.

I think that it would soak it better, and not have too much oil too close to the internals. Also having a crankscraper I think would benefit for that also. I'm not making the overall pan smaller, but if you think of our pan, there is a deeper side and a shallow side. I'm just combining the two and making them curve toward the center.

our oil pans are steel.....i have welded on mine

a crank scraper would be a must due the the surface area exposed to the crank. you also have to make sure the sump is emersed in the oil through hard excelleration/braking.

Terry

If you've welded to it then you know it's not straight steel. It's some sort of composite junk. Difficult to weld and easy to damage.

Amen to that, that's the reason why I'm trying to figure out a new design. I have no complaints about our cars except for the fact that the oil pan was designed by a Japanese midget with down symdrome.. oh well, I think that as long as the aluminum plys expand with heat the same as the block does, then it'll be fine and making it more shallow and even all across (minus the curve/slope toward the drain plug) it will keep the oil pick up tube submerged in oil all of the time, no matter if the car stops suddenly or accelerates suddenly, quickly shifting the oil to the front or the back or the sides, and I still think the crankscraper (either buy one or make one myself) will also benefit it from windage which will be even more of a possibility with all of the oil that much closer. I think a good inch off of the bottom of the pan will help a tremendous amount. Guess we'll see when the final design is made. That's why I put it up for comments and/or suggestions.. keep 'em coming.

bump

keep in mind that aluminum has a different coefficient of thermal expansion than Cast Iron does. I'd say that you'd be a lot safer with steel, that and steel is stronger (and easier to weld/modify) than aluminum is.

cool thanks, I am very unexperienced in welding, that's why I'm askin the pro's :)

still lookin for hints...

I have no idea why you have had problems i have welded the fitting for my return line and had no problems....I have used traditional cu coated steel wire with CO2 gas in 130amp blue point mig welder. No problems what so ever.

Terry

Ya, I lost an engine due to the oil pan as well. Got a small ding right where the pickup tube was and it rubed just enought to fituge and crack the pick up tube. Im guessing it took like 30,000 miles though. If you building a new one, make it steel for strength and to mantain the same termal expantion. That way you can use the same gasket instead of something multi layer like the head gasket.

Next, make SURE it has some sort of windage tray/crankscraper like our cars should have came with.

Also, the deeper section is to help oil from sloshing around. If the pan is shallower, you woule have to have some various meshed sections inside the pan to reduce the slosh. May not even need windage tray if you do this.

Sheetmetal about .125 (1/8) make life simple on your self by a miladon

copy the design fundamentals/materials from the Neon moroso pan, and make it fit with the cross member,etc...
Add baffels where needed, trap doors,etc.. this isnt just make a box of aluminum and throw some oil in it.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
I have no idea why you have had problems i have welded the fitting for my return line and had no problems....I have used traditional cu coated steel wire with CO2 gas in 130amp blue point mig welder. No problems what so ever. Terry

I welded mine as well with the same setup, only using an Argon/CO2 mixture. Do you not agree that the oil pan is too weak and low-quality? I'm fabtricating a REAL oil pan... this one sucks. It's clearly the weakest part of my engine right now.

Do you not agree that the oil pan is too weak and low-quality? I'm fabtricating a REAL oil pan... this one sucks. It's clearly the weakest part of my engine right now.



Thanks for the input guys, Hey what is your setup design like? I am going to check out the neon one as mentioned earlier. Thanks guys, I hope to have one made this week or the beginning of next week.

mother fucker.. I just had a huge freakin post, when I edited my last one and I didnt know it was on a timer.. argh. to make a long story short, I will explain when I post the dwgs. I am going w/ the first design made of some sort of high quality aluminum (easy for welding) or possibly steel, 2 ply b/c of expansion issues. Its going to be an oil pan, not a dry sump. I think with a good design, I can compensate for all the pros of a dry sump w/o the hassle of fabricating a oil tank and 2 oil pumps. That'd be a bit too much :) I will make walls of course in the pan to prevent sloshing around and put 2 trap doors that both open toward the oil pick up tube. Also I am either going to buy a crankscraper or fab some sort of windage tray to prevent extra weight on the crank and to prevent the tornado affect which will also free up a bit of possible hp. My last post compared and contrasted my oil pan w/ a dry sump system, and showed how I would compensate, but i'll do that later, b/c my hands hurt from typing that extremely long post that ended up not posting b/c I'm an idiot :) anyways thanks for the comments guys and support. You'll be the first to see it when its done, well besides me :) peace

Originally posted by stv
high quality aluminum (easy for welding)

That Sir, is an oxymoron!!!!! Aluminum is probably one of the more difficult metals to weld correctly and nicely! You have been warned...

Originally posted by tim97rs

Originally posted by stv high quality aluminum (easy for welding)

That Sir, is an oxymoron!!!!! Aluminum is probably one of the more difficult metals to weld correctly and nicely! You have been warned...

you need a LOT of experience with aluminum... I tryed it last year in one of my classes, and IT IS A BITCH!!! both MIG and TIG.. i can barely do TIG without a filler rod, but with, no fucking way.


again, go with steel

ok, I just heard that different types of aluminum were easier to weld, such as thick 6061-aluminum. I'm not the one who is making it here guys, b/c I dont know anything about welding. The machinist that is going to do it, is a very very very good machinist and welder also, he is just doing what I give him. He's done alot of work for me before and so that's why I am using him. But if steel is definately a better choice, then that's what I will use. Thanks

id be careful how close you get to the bottom.... theres always a lot of sludge and crap that gathers up on the bottom of the oil pan...i dont think it would be a good idea to get it to close...youd either suck that up or clog it up....maybe its a better idea because it will be able to suck it up better?? i dont know, just a thought
doug

well the way I'm sloping/curving the bottom of it, it is going to hopefully pull the sludge toward the drain hole, and the position of the drain hole is going to be relocated so hopefully that will help w/ sludge problems.