I finally plan to put a built 2.0l in my car and turn up the boost. However, I have been going back and forth for months on what path to choose. My choices are:

1. Get FTY to build a 2.0l shortblock from a spare engine
2. Buy a 2.0l rebuild kit from Howell and build a spare engine myself

In either case, I will source a spare engine so that this will be a drop in affair. I'll get the head on the spare engine rebuilt locally. Putting my feelings for both of these companies aside, this comes down to my time and money. I've added up the cost of all the gaskets, bolts, shipping charges, and machining processes. There is essentially a $370 difference between the two choices. I am a cheap-ass that is used to doing everything myself to save money. So, naturally I am swayed by the difference in price.

Now, I either have or can borrow most any tool necessary for the job. I have garage space to do the work. I have also found a local machine shop that has a good reputation. I am familiar enough with the engine to pull everything out of the car and bolt new parts in. I also have a proper shop manual. However, I have never rebuilt an engine. This is my only car and I can't afford down time. I will have to install the spare engine in a weekend and drive the car to work on monday.

Now, given the above information, should I buy a short block or build a block myself?

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Buy the FTY shortblock!!!!!!!!! There are so many tiny clearances that you have to measure, make sure this is machined right, make sure this is in spec. I believe that if you want a long life motor that will last you need it built right. With EVERYTHING in spec. $370 extra is worth it in my opinion.

holy crapola im in the same exact shoes.....

i'll see what u guys say, i'll take the advice too
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

DarkOne> Screw you guys, i'm going home.

"drugs have taught an entire generation of american kids the metric system. "

If it were anyone ELSE but you, I would probably recommend that you acquire the FTY shortblock. But even with that said, Thura makes a great point; there are a TON of little things, with varied clearances, that makes this job tough on aomsone who's not done it before.

As you know, another choice is to use a nearby machine shop. That'd save a ton of money. I merely used a reputable machine shop here in town, acquired all the necessary parts, gave it to them, and picked it up a couple weeks later, and a couple of hundred dollars later. The biggest decision I made was the piston-to-bore clearance for my forged pistons. (IIRC, .0035" not sure if my decimal is in the right place)

I'm sure the FTY guys are pro, but given the shipping costs, I still think that's something you might consider. The machine shop guys I went to were nothing special, and had a ton of other engines within their shop. My 420a was hardly anything "difficult" or surprising for them to handle.

Now, I get no slap, oil leaks, and my compression is still strong. Also, I didn't have any worries about what I was dropping in, since I was confident in my machine shop. Moreover, they warranteed their work and were nearby should I have any complaint or need to serve a summons.

Lastly, my buddy recently rebuilt a 4g63 himself. He had a ton of issues afterwards, due to knocking main bearings, and oil leaks. I don't know...it's just a tough task for a novice, but you're hardly a novice.

I'd flip a coin!! ;-)

Eh, I'm tempted to say go with FTY, and not just because that's the path I've chosen. With the small difference in cost, I'd rather go with someone that's proven they know what they're doing and all, but that's just because I'd be nervous as hell about messing something up ;p

Good luck either way, call when you're pulling the engine and putting the new one in, I wanna help if I can and get myself prepared for my own.

-Corey

I would say that if anyone here would be able to rebuild the block by themselves, it would be you sir. You seem to have an excellent attention to fine detail and you would not be rushed as you could still drive your car while you were rebuilding. In rebuilding the bottom end, there are a few places that need to have some special attention paid to them, but I'm sure you can handle it. If you are having the block machined (bored over, decked or whatever, and honed) they shouldn't do anything to the crankshaft bearing journals other than clean them, so you would basically need a feeler gauge to ensure tolerance.

In the cylinders, the trickiest thing in my opinion was the piston rings. They were a beeotch to get going right the first time. Everyone's going to be shocked to hear this but oh well... I just eyeballed the gaps on my piston rings when I installed them. :o Granted, I've done a lot of work with tolerances down to .001" and have a pretty good idea what .015" looks/feels like, but this doesn't mean I won't be double checking things out when I pull the head this winter for my ERT race porting not to mention getting around to doing a good old fashioned leak down here before I pull the head. }(

With the $370 you save, you could buy one of those cool digital A/F gauges and... no wait, you made those. Well, maybe you could get some materials and make a custom hood scoop or... hmmm, done that too. Well, you buy one hell of a steak dinner for two. :P

I say go for it. It's the final frontier for you with these cars. You've pretty much done everything else already! If YOU need any help, I'm sure people will be standing in line to give you a hand.

:thumbsup

DIY :thumbsup


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
15.7 @ 87.9mph
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

Originally posted by DR1665
I would say that if anyone here would be able to rebuild the block by themselves, it would be you sir. You seem to have an excellent attention to fine detail and you would not be rushed as you could still drive your car while you were rebuilding. In rebuilding the bottom end, there are a few places that need to have some special attention paid to them, but I'm sure you can handle it. If you are having the block machined (bored over, decked or whatever, and honed) they shouldn't do anything to the crankshaft bearing journals other than clean them, so you would basically need a feeler gauge to ensure tolerance. In the cylinders, the trickiest thing in my opinion was the piston rings. They were a beeotch to get going right the first time. Everyone's going to be shocked to hear this but oh well... I just eyeballed the gaps on my piston rings when I installed them. :o Granted, I've done a lot of work with tolerances down to .001" and have a pretty good idea what .015" looks/feels like, but this doesn't mean I won't be double checking things out when I pull the head this winter for my ERT race porting not to mention getting around to doing a good old fashioned leak down here before I pull the head. }( With the $370 you save, you could buy one of those cool digital A/F gauges and... no wait, you made those. Well, maybe you could get some materials and make a custom hood scoop or... hmmm, done that too. Well, you buy one hell of a steak dinner for two. :P I say go for it. It's the final frontier for you with these cars. You've pretty much done everything else already! If YOU need any help, I'm sure people will be standing in line to give you a hand. :thumbsup

Bravo and well put

IF you feel you can really save that money on a DIY, then by all means do it. This is the route I took. But i must say this, I did NOT save money doing it. You just have to remember all the small nity gritty parts you have to get to do the job, and after it was said and done for my motor, it was a bit over 2000. I even got dealer cost on parts, and some hookup on a set of JE pistons and rings. Its all the little stuff that adds up really quick, that you will need. If you take your new pistons and block to repuatable machine shop, you dont have to worry about ring to wall measurements, and some plasigauge for the bearing journals is all you need to take care of those. Setting the piston ring end gaps is very important, but that was easy to do with a set of feeler gauges. I had never rebuilt a motor before either(although i had done many small lawnmower type motors in the past, same thing really), and I found it very easy to do. If you have the manual, and the right tools, you can surely do it yourself. I knew it would cost the same or even more for myself to do it, but i'll tell ya what, the satisfaction it gave me to build my own motor, and hear it fire up without a hitch for the first time, was absolultey priceless :) Just remember, it will ALWAYS cost more than you think doing it yourself...trust me. I say do it for pride and your own satisfaction, if that is what you decide, not necessarily for cost. Plus, i dont like anyone else working on my car :)

I'm not sure where your at on the map but Koffel's Place 2 in Huron Ohio specialize in Mopar Motors including the 420A. I'm sure If you called or emailed them and asked what they could build on your budget they will give you a good answer. They have been building motors longer than I've been alive. Dave Koffel was an engineer for chrysler back in the day and help develope alot of the motors found in the old muscle cars. He also help Mopar Performance fix there oiling problem on the Viper running in the Lemans series. This is why I recamend them and always will. Be sides they arnt full of B.S. like the guys at Indy:thumbsdown Any way just trying to give you a "C" answere to choose from:)

same shoes
If you dont mind corbin,
why dont some of you post costs for the DIY ppl and the FTY or comparable buils?

This is including tools etc.

i had my engine built by a mechanic who works at the mitsu dealer who loves building engines. I think of it like this.....
If you do it yourself, add in all the tools/extra crap you got to buy and factor in your time if you a busy person also you got to know what the hell your doing or your going to have to do it again (extra money $$$$). if you let someone else do it make sure they know what they are doing and stand by the work they do.. overall it comes down to this... saying you did it all yourself which puts some pride into it (if you did it correct the 1st time) or letting a pro do it and spend the same amount overall or a few $100 more.

Michael
99gs HRC Stage IV 8-Injector Setup
2GNT Member #32

same shoes here too.....im really thinking about doing it myself....i think it sounds a hell of a lot harder because they tell you to measure so much shit...half of it doesnt REALLY need to be measured and checked....i wish i had someone around me thats done it successfully just to assist me, but havent yet.....sooooo im in a bind...i deffinitely dont have enough money to have someone do it for me....i say do it yourself so you can let me know how it goes and what i need to look out for :thumbsup
doug

the rebuild is definitely something you DONT want to rush in any way, shape, or form. if your car is a necessity to, say, get to work on Monday...id do what i could to help cut down the down-time however possible. it is my personnal experience with engine rebuilds that they ALWAYS take 2 to 3 times longer than you ever thought they possbly could. :-) i ENJOYED rebuilding my engine, as im sure you would too. it all comes down to what you are comfortable with, time and skill wise. damn sure you have the skill.... but do ya have the time for all the little shyat? goodluck either way.

1999 Black C5
1997 Silver RS
Wiseco 8.8:1 Pistons(back to low compression!)
Eagle Rods
T3/T4 Turbo
Custom FMIC
Greddy Exhaust
390's
Most current 1/8th mile time: 8.3@90mph 2.015 60'(Nitto Drag radials, i suck)

im gonna say... DIY. go for it. u know damn near everything about these cars, so why not.




14.5 @ 95mph / 7psi 185hp/180tq :thumbsdown

I'll throw one more vote to the FTY side. Without a doubt, you could do this yourself, do a good job, and save money. On the other hand, you can pay a little more and have also have a well built engine... so the difference for me is (he he) purely emotional. Do you get a lot of satisfaction when you do it yourself? And do you ever get really frustrated during a project? It's the whole 'highs and lows' thing of complicated projects.

so I say it depends on your temperment, not your wallet. The $ difference you are talking about isn't that extreme, so in terms of building an engine it wouldn't be much of a factor here for me.

on the other hand, I honestly have never regretted doing something myself. I've never built an engine from scratch though

Well i dont mean to steal the thread, but im also interested in either buying a block, or rebuilding. I just got a 92 that i planned on using when i redo the AWD. I have some mechanical experience, I feel confident i can do this. Would it be wise to maybee take the block and head and get everything rebore, and then I install all the internals. Or have a shop do the block, head and internals, and i finish everything up. I dont have a time issue, just want to do this in a cost efective manner.

I would say that you should go pre-built. I am sure that Kirby will agree with me when I say do NOT go with Howell to actually build one for you. Go with FTY.

I dont doubt your abilities, but even dropping my Howell motor took me longer than one weekend. If you have good help you should be able to get it done in one weekend.

I have never met a machine shop that can get stuff done quickly.

If you know of one LEMME KNOW so I can do the motor in my silver car.

Have you installed the headlights and the DP yet?

Good luck!

Well, I think I'm leaning toward the prebuilt FTY. I probably will have to buy a lot of extra little things to build my own and the prices will drift closer together. Plus, my experiences with Howell have been mediocre at best and FTY has been very helpful.

Jon...I've put in the headlights...they look great. I'm waiting on the DP until I have a garage to work in (a few weeks). Wanna swap engines? I'll take the one in your silver car as a core and give you my existing one after the swap. Its only got 75k and needs a $10 rear main seal.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Originally posted by Corbin
Wanna swap engines? I'll take the one in your silver car as a core and give you my existing one after the swap. Its only got 75k and needs a $10 rear main seal. Corbin '95 ESI-T HRC+FMIC+ETC... Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Yeah I was just about to ask you pretty much the same thing. However my silver car has a hole in the block so giving it to you as a core would not benefit you in any way.

I was thinking that I could buy it off you if you wanna get rid of it locally. Lemme know what you want for it.

Ahhh...I'm pretty sure you told me that already and I forgot. I'll give you first refusal on my block when it becomes available.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Well Corbin, I you don't feel good in building the engine by yourself, don't do it. In my experience, the fisrt engine that I built was a Chevy 350. It wasn't as hard as I imagine and it came pretty good. Since them I have been working with engines from 1985 300zx Turbo, 1989 Supra Turbo, two 420a engine(mine and my kids eclipse). Four cylinders are easy to work on. I pretty sure you can do it. You will need a good machine shop to work and measure your parts. I will select one with good name and experience with racing engines. You can use "plastige" to make all the measurements for the rod and crankshaft measurements after the machine shop work on the parts. An engine maual with all the specifications and the tools. The best thing about making your own engine is: pride for building it and that you make sure that everithing is OK!. You aren't gessing that everything is OK because somebody told you, even I you are paying him.
Remember, If a man built the engine, why can't you do it.

Again, If you don't feel good doin it, well don't do it. But you can learn a lot from building a engine.

doesnt seam to me like the price difference is enough to risk messing it up. There are too many tolerances and clearances etc. to worry about. Would also be quicker probabaly to have it prebuilt and shipped to ya. I just went thru same delima recently and wish I would have bought a prebuilt in all honesty.

I had originally suggested DIY, but you have to really consider your goals Corbin. You are not one to shy away from troubleshooting or innovating when it comes to these cars, so you could very well do this rebuild yourself with minimal hassle from the work. You will, however, find machine shops and outside sources to be your weak point. The specialty tool you want to rent won't be there, the bearings will not match since you used a 95 block instead of rebuilding your 97 one. :P

Another benefit I just realized when it comes to having the motor prebuilt for you is whether it is all balanced and blueprinted and all that. You may want to price having the rotating assembly balanced and see what that does to the DIY price.

When we did my rebuild last June, it took us close to 3 weeks to get everything done. And this was my daily driver. Talk about stress. I would not recommend that route to anyone, but I was dumb and didn't get the spare motor all built up first. :shrug

When we did talnoiized's swap last month. We did it in less than 3 days. And that's just because he lives about 50 miles across the valley from the rest of us.

I know you could do this yourself, but youmay just want to have the time for other things than slaving away in the garageor whatever, ya know? Just another take on someone who has seen the pros and cons of going both ways.