I want to go fast, and I don't have 4k to drop into a turbo (and I never will either with this car, by the time I have that much money I will be out of college buying something like an STI). I'm looking at all the bolt-ons available, and for street use I'm not sure if I should slap on a bunch of boltons, or just go nitrous and be done.

I current have intake/exhaust/plugs/wires (along with a full suspension), and I see:

headers
cam gears
pulleys
throttle body
hiflow cat

as potential boltons. I do NOT want to rebuild my engine, AT ALL. I don't have the money, the time, the patience, or the skill to do so. All of the mods above are relatively cheap to purchase/have installed. But I'm not sure if they are worth it? headers cost almost $400 installed, and give like 5hp tops. Same with cam gears and pulleys. Hiflow cat can maybe give upwards of 10, as well as throttle body. I'm looking at spending upwards of $1500 for 30hp tops. Am I way off in this estimate or what? Money is a huge issue for me (I'm on an extreme budget), so if I could drop down $550 for a nitrous kit, $150ish for a purge kit and have a "show-off" move (like a bov), along with a couple gauges to ensure I don't overspray and blow my car up, not to mention get an extra 20+ hp what the bolt-ons would give me...

get a couple of buddies together and you can install those mods with half the money. remember, these are bolt on parts, its not that complicated. the only thing that might get you into troube is the cam gears. i did mine with a friend and we had some challenges since it was our first time, but it can be done, and you learn a lot in the process.

all of those mods are fine. your hp estimates are about right.

cam gears~8-10 whp (tuned)
header~5 whp
hi-flow cat~5-8 whp
UDP~ 10 whp
tb~10 whp (not much experience w/ them..so not sure.)

happy install to you :cheers

get a dremel tool and port out your intake and exhaust manifolds, and your throttle body, this'll take you a good bit of time, but if you'll just do one thing per saturday, you'll see great results, then, spray it. Minimal investment, maximum performance gain. Get a Wet Kit.

Depends if you consider going from mid 16s to low-mid 15 is considered worth it for a minimum investment of money.

start with what you have on that list....go with a cheaper underdrive pulley from extremepsi.com...i think they're only $70 and they help alot....headers will add a little torque, cam gears could be nice if you set them up decent, but they're a little pricy....

But I mean, I could get nitrous right when spring start sofr abotu $530, + the cost of gauges and a gauge cluster, and new spark plugs, and be set. I work on saturdays (school monday-friday, work sat and sun), so I don't have a lot of free time, and I don't have the ability to allow my car to be down for any length of time.

I just want to be able to hang with my friends WRX that's all :) There's not a lot of speed shops in my area, so it's tough to get stuff done.

What is the next most economical (hp/money, non-induction) upgrade? I kind of don't want to do a pulley, since I've got a large (1000+ watt) soundsystem, and I dont' want to limit the ability of my alternator at all.

would a throttle body (~$225 for ~10hp) be the best bet?

i can make you a jeep throttle body (60mm) for $160 shipped with sensors and everything.... let me know
doug

You are still making those kits? I remember like a year ago you were just starting them. What have they been dynoing results-wise? How hard are they to install? How does it change the feel of the car?

ummmm its not a kit....its just a throttle body, it consists of taking the intake off, unplugging the sensors and two bolts on the throttle body.....

Do you bore your jeep throttle bodies out to the full 60mm or just let them choke down at the manifold side?
If I were you I would buy the Modern Performance Throttle body specifically made for our cars and get the Upper Intake Manifold bored to match. That route will show you the most gains from installing a throttle body.

-$0.02

-Chris b.

You want to hang with a WRX? Until he buys a $70 MBC and then what? You will be back where you are.

I say, get the TB (jeep above for $160? or MP for $200), get the UDP, and then have the head machined for about $250. You may not get so much HP from all that as you will definitely make your car quicker. I don't remember if you said you had exhaust, but the easier it is for your engine to breathe, the more open it will feel.

For a valve job, you might be down for < week, but the shop would tear down your head, clean it, inspect it and reassemble, so you have nothing to worry about other than remembering where you put the bolts. :P

spray it.

i dont want to rain on anyones parade.. but the throttle bodies are not going to give you 10whp... better throttle response yes, but you are realistically looking at maybe 2whp

in fact, most of those numbers listed above are a little high... if you search, there have been dyno runs showing the gains.. look for eclipse804 and VX100.. they both have dyno sheets showing the actual gains.

Originally posted by CVedEclipse
i dont want to rain on anyones parade.. but the throttle bodies are not going to give you 10whp... better throttle response yes, but you are realistically looking at maybe 2whp in fact, most of those numbers listed above are a little high... if you search, there have been dyno runs showing the gains.. look for eclipse804 and VX100.. they both have dyno sheets showing the actual gains.

Yeah you can get realistically 5 whp with cam gears. A max gain of 10 whp but that is not over the entire rpm range so the average gain is somewhere around 5 I would say. My recommendation is CAI intake, and then cam gears if you can do the labor yourself. But if you're considering NOS, you get a lot more for your money (if it's worth the risk to you). If you want to hang with a wrx, you need to run low 15's or even mid 14's. Stock 1/4 mile is around 14.7-14.8 for most people, but my best is a 15.3 since I refuse to just drop the clutch and break my tranny.

So more realistically with a full load of bolt-ons:

headers,pulleys,cam gears, hiflow, throttle body, porting, I'm looking at like 25 tops? Screw that lol, that's like $1500 worth of work, and I can do nitrous for half that and still be pretty reliable shooting 50.

Originally posted by Fryguy
So more realistically with a full load of bolt-ons: headers,pulleys,cam gears, hiflow, throttle body, porting, I'm looking at like 25 tops? Screw that lol, that's like $1500 worth of work, and I can do nitrous for half that and still be pretty reliable shooting 50.

With that list of mods, I would honestly say 30 to 35 whp tops.

screw that, nitrous here I come!

btw, nice paint job on the eclipse to match the WRX, my friends WRX is that color, and I love it.

i say do the mods listed and get a kit on top of that...so about 30hp for the mods plus about 50/75hp for the nos equals around 80 to 100hp for about $200...i think you'll keep up with the wrx with that ...


cai,p&p tb,msd coil pack and 8.5mm wires,plat+4 plugs,header,high flow cat,dual dtm styl muffler,final gear mod,and shift kit

I would only spay the car if you know how much it is to fill a bottle. $20 if you know a good shop that gives it a way cheap but most places are $40. If you go to a race track and fill it it will be about $40. So when you add the kit up,gauges, purge valve, and filling it about every 15-20 times you hit it down goes more money. Just somthing to think about. You also said there are few shops around find the ones that sell it and how much by the pound:thumbsup good luck man.

If you put NOS in a bone stock car your gonna fry your engine. Unless you do some heavier duty mods (ie: new cams, ecu, bored out intake manifold, just to name a few) your gonna blow your heads to hell. Putting NOS on a stock engine is definitely a recipe for disaster.

^^^ Thats not true. The stock motor, in good working order can handle a 50-75 shot safely and without damage to the motor. Check your facts before you post stuff to scare off someone who is looking for advice and info. There are members here who have been spaying on stock motors for years without issue. There are also members here who spray on built motors. It's all in how you use it and making sure you dont go lean.
How would it "blow your heads to hell"???
That statement doesnt even make sense. Our car only has one head.

-Chris b.

best way is to spray. but if you spray and something goes wrong you might blow. who knows. if you wanna go faster you better have the money to back it up.
Michael
99gs
HRC Stage IV 8-Injector Setup
2GNT Member #32

spray it for sure! You can definately do it on the stock engine. I did it on my completely stock talon w/ over 130k miles (besides the free airbox mod) and nothing went wrong. NX 75 wet shot. Got it from ebay for $465 and got the purge for $90. Im putting the kit on my eclipse right now. Just check your compression. If its good, spray away!

here's your recipe: MP 60mmTB, portmatch the intake manifold, CAI, cat back, cam gears, pulleys, and don't waste money on the header. Then get a 50 shot of nitrous. I know someone who did 100 shots here in cali and his motor is fine (not recommending that tho') If you have a 97, get the AFX CPU.

your estimates of hp gains for each mod are a little high. I gained around 5 whp & 5 ft-lbs with a catback alone, so the gains are there though for basic bolt ons. The V2 had gains up to 10 whp I believe, but it's been a while since I looked at the dyno. it's the combination of everything that matters though. And noone has done a control vs larger throttle body dyno test, so hp estimates from that can't be made as of yet.

My bad, i did not mean to put "S" in there. Also, I did not know you were only using a 50 shot of nitrous, I thought you were talking about shots of around 100. Ive seen corollas with 50 shot and so far nothing is wrong. So yeah NOS is a decent alternative but if you're willing to cough up the dough each time you need to fill up the tank then all the power to ya

If your not spraying on the street and only at the track for short ET's then nitrous is a good investment.

i'm sorry but if u want to see any gains from those mods your gonna have to apply them all at once! doin' one mod here and there and you don't even notice 3 or so horse power...

and if u want to use those mods effectively (less the headers w/turbo) you have to have nos or turbo...

and if your gonna sink 1500 into bolt ons, u may as well save up for a turbo, or if you realy plan on getting a different car later save it for that and don't worry about making this one fast...

personally i would never touch nos, but thats just my thing, i'm sure many have sucessfully used it but i'm sure just as many if not more have had problems with it!!!

best mods IMO, exhaust, cold air intake, mpx 60mm tb, weight redux... keep that power where it belongs with a limited slip diff, and a stage 2+ clutch...

making a car go faster is not cheap by any means...

ohh, btw if u do end up getting another car get the evo or sr4, i think they look much better then the wrx/sti and are very good cars..

well later

WTB: Dodge Omni


http://www.geocities.com/shadyporshe851proof/frame_content/indexframe.html

mods: star stage III clutch + 60mm tb + the normal mods, bass, lights well u get the picture

Put nitrous on your car and spray 75hp. Your car will run low-mid 14's if you can drive well (perhaps faster, I know mine was) and you'll easily take the WRX. Don't listen to that idiot above who said you'll fry the head on a stock motor. Not one fucking part he listed even has anything to do with an engines durability to nitrous. Our stock heads flow VERY well, so here is the cheapest, easiest recepie for making our cars fast:

1. N.O.S. Wet kit (you don't need a purge valve or WOT switch or any of that crap if you have half a brain, just get the kit, an arming switch, and an activation switch.

2. Get a Dremel and Port out your Throttle Body, Exhaust Manifold, and Intake Manifold. Don't waste your money on a Jeep TB, you can get similar results just by porting yours out.

3. Get a big exhaust, not smaller than 3". One of the reasons my car was so fast on nitrous was because I was running an open exhaust manifold. Zero backpressure helps nitrous a LOT (helps a car without nitrous some too).

4. Get a $35 short ram off of ebay. If you want a nice one, spend the money on an AEM or something, but IMO it's not worth the money, just be sure to get a K&N (not K$N "style") Air Filter for the end of it.

5. Good tires, you're going to blow them off your first several runs at the track.

Only spray in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. When racing from a stop, launch as usual, then shift into 2nd at about 6000rpms and lay on the nitrous once you catch traction in 2nd. If you can launch decent (and drive well, obviously) then you'll eat a stock WRX for lunch with this setup. Oh yeah, and if you have a big system and all that crap, it hurts you, so take all that crap out if you want to be fast. :thumbsup

well I've already got an intake/exhaust (not a catback, but I'm not about to spend a couple hundred just to swap for a catback and gain maybe 1-2 horsepower). I agree that headers are crap; I've actually heard of people LOSE horsepower from them. I don't want to do pulleys because of my large soundsystem (I've heard both ways, some say it screws, some say it doesn't, I care more about my system than speed, so I'm not going there). That leaves cam gears and throttle body/porting (and obviously nos) as the primary boltons. I kind of want nos just so that I can purge at people :)

How long does a 10lb bottle last? This _IS_ for street use, but I dont' plan on going nuts with it, maybe a couple of sprays a week.

What guages are "necessary" with nos? A/F, nitrous pressure, what else? is EGT necessary, or can I get away without it?

I have a feeling I'll do nos + purge, then maybe tack on throttle body/porting later for better throttle response.

A Catback wouldn't give you just 1-2 horsepower while you're spraying, it'd give you more like 15-20. If you don't want to spend the money, just unbolt the cat and run an open exhaust manifold and flex section, but... it'll be LOUD. Also, I'd port your TB and Intake and Exhaust manifolds before you get a purge. Purges aren't nessecary, they're just cool to have, and the porting is free, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty and you have a dremel or die grinder.

i happen to love my bolts ons. i'm wanting to sell my high flow cat, hit me up if your interested. (i'll need your stock one... ;) )