i was just searching about adjusting these and i came across a couple other questions....right now i have it at +2 intake -2 exhaust...i havent had any problems with that, but ive heard that the marks arent right, and ive also heard that each degree on the cam equals 2 degrees...so when you say +4 on intake...would that be only 2 little marks....i dont think that sounds right, but clear me up with all this....and if you could also post what settings youre running and what youve tried..thanks!

screw flanders

somebody?

>ive
>heard that the marks arent right,

The marks on the AEM cam gears are not in the right position for our cars. They are correct for neons. You have to compare them to the stock cam gears and carefully (and accurately) re-mark the AEM gears.

Of course, you can adjust the cam gears to compensate, but that's if you know how many degrees off the marks are and in what direction they are off. I don't have that answer, and I doubt you'll find it, since most people re-mark the AEM cam gears when tey're off teh car, then install them.

>and ive also heard that each
>degree on the cam equals 2 degrees...so when you say +4 on
>intake...would that be only 2 little marks....

Yes, one degree at the camshaft (on the gear) is two (2) degrees at the crankshaft. So if you move the cam gear one mark, that' 2 degrees at the crank.

>i dont think
>that sounds right, but clear me up with all this....

It is correct, because the crankshaft turns twice as quickly as the cam gears. The cam gears have to be at this exact ratio as they compare to the crankshaft, or the valve train wouldn't work properly.

>and if you
>could also post what settings youre running and what youve
>tried..thanks!

+8 degrees advance on the intake cam, 0 degrees on the exhaust cam (assuming your cam gears are marked properly and timed properly in the first place)

what do you need to do to remark them correctly?

now you said 8 degrees advance intake....does that only mean 4 marks on the cam gears?....thats what im confused at.....i have mine at +2,-2....(2 little marks) does that mean im actually at +4,-4....im lost now....and how could they sell these cams for our cars and them not even be correct.... this is kind of bullshit to me....my car runs correctly and i never remarked them....

In order to remark the AEM gears correctly, you just have to put the stock cam gear next to the AEM cam gear, (or right on top of it) then use a scribe or some other similar sharp pointy metal object to just cut a mark into the AEM gear.

Obviously, make sure you are very careful and do it correctly the first time! You can't erase that kind of mark. You could use a pen or a marker, but it will eventually wear off, which is not good and why I just scribed a new timing mark on mine.

>now you said 8 degrees advance intake....does that only mean
>4 marks on the cam gears?

Yes.

....thats what im confused at.....i
>have mine at +2,-2....(2 little marks) does that mean im
>actually at +4,-4....

yes

im lost now....and how could they sell
>these cams for our cars and them not even be correct

because they ae meant for a Neon. they saw the neon and the eclipse had the same engine, and the cam gears are the exact same size and part (well, except for the location of the timing mark) and just said they will work for our cars too. They do work, it's just the marks are not in the right place, they are off by about a tooth or half a tooth on each gear.

.... this
>is kind of bullshit to me....my car runs correctly and i never
>remarked them....

That's always possible. It won't be EXACTLY in time the way it is supposed to, but the car will still work. When I put mine on the first time, I didn't mark them and the car ran fine. It idled poorly, but once it got above 1500 rpms you couldn't tell the differenc e(except I wasn't making any mroe power).

But once I marked the cam gears correctly, re-installed them and had the timing perfect (car idled normally), I was able to accurately tune them on a dyno and get more power out of them.

If you had the correct timing marks, and everything was timed perfectly, I'd reccomend going about +6 or +8 degrees advance on the intake cam to start with, then go from there if you can get on a dyno. Since your marks are off a bit, the best thing is to take it to a dyno and do all of your tuning there (if you are unwilling to take everything apart, mark the gears in the correct spot, then put it all back together again)

There might be some issues with making optimal power the way your car is now, with the exhaust cam being off (since the cam angle sensor magnet is attached to the exhaust cam), but if you adjust the exhaust cam gear the correct amount to compensate, (don't ask me what it is, I have no idea, you'd have to compare where the AEM mark is tot eh stock cam gear, figure out which direction it is off, measure or estimate how many degrees it is off,t hen adjust the AEM gears that much to compensate) then you should be fine.

bump....

screw flanders

So if you put them on without remarking them, are both gears gonna be off, or just one of them?

I thought that AEM had already corrected this problem and only the older gears were affected.

I talked to an AEM tech support guy like 30min. ago. He didn't know what I was talking about, so I don't think anyone ever told them about the problem. On their site, it has the same part# for the eclipse and the neon. He said he was gonna have some people find out something for us. I gave him this website and told him all the proof he needed was here. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. I don't think that much can be done now thoguh. Plus, I already ordered mine. Looks like more fun altering shit again.

Speaking of AEM cam gears... There are two different types of bolts that they come with (Button Head Socket Cap Screws, or Hex Flange Cap Screw) which is supposed to be the better setup and why? I can’t see why one would be better than the other.

thanks guys....well i dont think i feel like pulling all that shit off to fix them.... now once you correct the actual timming marks...that means that you need to correct all the degree marks.... does anybody know how much i need to move the cams to get them to be back to stock timming...then i can adjust them....thanks

bump

so does anybody have these and know approximately how much i can move them in either direction to get them timed correctly, then i can adjust them to the settings i like.....how bout somebody that already remarked these?, can you tell me what your settings are and where approximately it is on the stock aem settings....thanks

screw flanders

i just dealt with the same problem last week and it was actually pretty easy to take apart. All i had to do was take off the tensioner and adjust everything, then put the tensioner back on. if you do a search and look for my post about this same topic you will see that someone was nice enough to post a picture of the AEM gears and how the marks line up at TDC. I just adjusted them to look like the pic and was done. Think it took a half hour total and the car ran a lot smoother than before.

do you know what forum it was, or what to search?....why did you have to take the tensioner off.....couldnt you just adjusted them to without messing with the timing belt?..... also what are your settings...ive heard about +4 on the intake is best....do you have any pics...thanks

did they make cam gears that fit properly?...i thought i read that they had different numbers or something on the back..... they said that the seabrings or the 2.4 motor ones fit....i doubt it but let me know

screw flanders

Here's the picture:

hey...ther's the picture i was looking for to link to. yeah i had to take the tensioner off. Then i slid the timing belt off and adjusted the came gears to look like the picture, then re-installed t-belt and tensioner. There's no way to move to cam gears independently of each other with the timing belt still engaged into their teeth- that's why I removed the tensioner. just make sure that when you go to put the tensioner back on that you place the crank on Top Dead Center, then back it off 3 teeth counter-clockwise to compensate for the movement that is going to occur when th tensioner is put back in.

why cant you just adjust the cam gears approximately to get the lines to line up (the proper way)...then i can adjust them to my settings....well im going to try this basing them off the picture....thanks


screw flanders

"Here is one showing the marks off by a little. I think the shorter lines were the original lines, and they are kinda off as they don't point straight into each other.

"

hey i did a search and found this.....you guys are saying two different things, which one is the right timming marks....

no the shorter ones in the groove are the right ones. The longer ones on the tooth are the ones done by AEM that are off.

ok...so both pictures are right then, the timming on the second one just isnt matched up?...makes sense...let me know if im thinking correctly...

i know somebody out there has just adjusted there timming after they found out about this mistake.... i would think that you retard the intake about 4 degree's (2 marks) and the exhaust the same and it would be about stock settings without removing the cams?....does this sound right to anyone, correct me if im wrong....so if i was to adjust the intake to +6 it would actually be +2 and the exhaus would be -2....any input?

Well, you can degree the cams to either exact factory cam specs or to the recommended cam centerline that comes with your Crane or Crower cams on the specification sheet.

Quite easy really, if you have the tools, condensed short version. Find #1 piston TDC ,( dial indictor with long probe thru the spark plug hole)........... install degree wheel on the crank snout, rig a pointer to point to 0 TDC on degree wheel.

(I have found the factory timing mark for the lower timing gear to be off a bit on some motors).

Place dial indicator with probe on top of valve retainer. ( must take off valve cover for that one)

Rotate clockwise to get to where maximum valve lift occurs ( intake or exhaust ) and see where that falls (how many degrees from 0 TDC) on the degree wheel.

Check against the cam specs for your cams ( Stock specs or aftermarket cam sheet).

For instance if your maximum valve lift occurs at 110 degrees and the spec sheet calls for 108 centerline , you have to retard the cam 1 degree on the cam gear sprocket (two crankshaft degrees) to get it to spec.

If this it confusing,(I tried to make it short), I might be able to dig up some pics to explain better.

>no the shorter ones in the groove are the right ones. The
>longer ones on the tooth are the ones done by AEM that are
>off.

Ahh I'm even getting confused. I "think" you're right. Does anyone have a picture of their stock aem cam gears to confirm that the longer marks are the ones that come on the gears?

Mike at Road Race took those pics of my car when he installed the aem cam gears. You just have to compare visually to the stock gears and make new marks to make sure it lines up.

BTW, make sure you get the new hex bolts with washers. A lot easier to adjust and safer.

he's rght...the longer marks ON the tooth are the original marks that are off. The shorter marks between teeth are the new (correct) marks.

ok that was confussing, but can somebody let me know if im on the right track here.... i think if i retard(-) the intake and exhaust cams about 2 marks (4 degrees) that it will be pretty close to the stock settings, then adjust the intake cam to +6 whatever i want to do i would actually end of with the settings looking like this: +2 intake, -4 exhaust.... does this sound right....by looking at the picture this seems like its what i need to do....and if somebody would be able to measure their new marks on the cam gears from the original AEM mark to their new mark and give me an accurate measurment, i will be able to get this really close....thanks
doug

bumpidy bumper

ok how bout somebody answer this.... how many degrees are equal to one tooth on the timming belt?

sorry i cant help ya much here, i spent 2 days trying to figure out how to compensate for the mis-marking like you are trying to do, and couldnt figure it out. After 2 days I just said the hell with it and spent 30 minutes changing them.

i dont see why it should be that hard, if you remarked yours couldnt you measure yours and let me know?? and i dont think its a 30 min job....ive never actually changed a timming belt while the engine has been in the car, but i dont want to mess with that crank pulley again.... i have a cheaper ebay udp and i dont want to beat it up.... id appreciate it if you could get that measurment for me.... thanks

i havent read all the post in this thread but it still sounds like this has not been answered. I just did this 3 weeks ago:

in regards to remarking your AEM's, all you do is
1. set you AEM cam gear over you stock gear or vice versa(you really need to have them off the car to do this acuratley)
2.line up the cam peg slot (where the little metal dowel on the cam sits in the gear) on both gears with eachother. the teeth will be even if your lined up right.
3.note where your STOCK timing mark is on your STOCK gear, Should be in the 9:00 position relative to the cam peg slot if your slot is pointed to the 12:00 position.
4. slide your gear over about a 1/16th of an inch, just enough to see the stock mark, and make your mark on the AEM gear. a dremmel is best using a cut wheel to mark the AEMS.

Thats it!

yea, this would work if i wanted to take off my cam gears...but i dont, i wanted to just adjust them to compensate for the timming.... if you have already done this could you just measure what the difference in the stock aem mark to the new mark...thanks

somebody that remarked this please help me..... cars running like shit right now....thanks

>>>yea, this would work if i wanted to take off my cam gears...but i dont, i wanted to just adjust them to compensate for the timming.... if you have already done this could you just measure what the difference in the stock aem mark to the new mark...thanks<<<

Well the only problem with that is that it is totaly dependat on if you had your car timed correctly in the first place when you put them on and if your AEMS were set to the zero mark to begin with. IF you put them on with everyhting lined up correctly to set your timing and didnt just throw them on, AND you were correctly timed BEFORE you played with them, then, yes you an just set them to zero and start over.

However it sounds like you may not be correctly timed to begin with. Even being off a 1/2 tooth to a full tooth will feel normal for the most part, but you will still run a bit shitty at certan times.

With mine CORRECTLY timed and having marked the AEMS against the stock gears OFF the car, my correct re-mark placement is 90 degrees to the left on the exhaust gear from the timing degree marks on the AEMs. Make sence?
12:00
timing marks
||||||||||




45 degrees to left
-- <<< correct placement of remark





bottom or gear
6:00

BUT i hate to break it to ya, the only way you can know FOR SURE that your timed correctly is to do it over again and mark the gears OFF your car. Even trying to get it back to stock timing is going to be difficult to impossible since you may not have even right to begin with.
sorry brother!

ok, let me rephrase myself..... i changed my headgasket,and retimmed the engine using the AEM Timming marks...so the timmming i correct relevant to them.... i still not completely understanding what you said.... 90degrees from the zero mark on both cam gears? could you just measure the distance between the new mark and the AEM mark so i could adjust the camgears (advance or retard) that distance to compensate.... it would need to be a fairly accurate measurment though....

are your came gears new or old? did you buy them new or used? is it possible you have the ones designed for the eclipse.

Here's some pictures I took, just for you.




The 0 degree is aligned with the timing mark for the picture, not the AEM 0 mark.

here is a pic of my gear. sorry for poor quality, i pulled it from a bigger pic. can get better one if you need.

thanks for the help guys...but sorry to say its still not answering my question.... i think i answered it for myself, but i had problems with the damn aem bolt..... i checked AEM's sight and they still show the same part number for the Neons and the Eclipse, so i dont think its possible that i have ones for an eclipse if theyre both the same.... anyways, i measured from the original AEM mark to the middle of the tooth and then compensated for my timming with about -3 1/2 degrees retard at the exhaust...then i was going to adjust the intake gear to +7 which would actually be only +3 1/2 advance....but the allen key twisted and chewed up the one bolt and i cant get it off wihtout having the gears off the car....so now that ones still at +7 which to me seems like it would be+ 10 1/2....is that going to hurt anything?....it runs good, but is 10 1/2 degrees advance too much, am i losing performance?

read above post^^^^...has anyone dynoed +10,+9....+8 i know is ok...but i havent heard of the others

Dood, bite the bullet and reinstall your timing belt. You're a tooth off. Nobody's going to know how to compensate for that amount of inaccuracy. The only way to be sure things are working right is to dyno each possible setting.

If you're not going to dyno, and just shortcut by using someone else's settings, then you need to be timed the same as them.

Not trying to be blunt, but it sounds like you're giving yourself a headache unnecessarily.

I had the right distance compensated, just wondering if anyone dynoed +10.... ill be taking my timing belt off, just not at the moment....