As some of you know, i'm having problems with that vacuum hose that's connected to the throttle body. Well today after i changed the oil, i started tracing the hose. It led me here, right under the passenger wheel well. The hose hooks to this thing, and another hose leads out and off to never never land. i unhooked it, and tried sucking on the hose that exited it. It gave vacuum. I tried sucking on the hose that went into it. It gave vacuum. I think, i might have found it. It was in rubber, stuffed with cotton and foam for some reason. It has a harness connection. Has anybody had any experience with this?
I unhooked it all, and hooked just the vacuum side up to a short hose and plugged it into the throttle body. The car sat at around 500rpm. I think that might be the problem, if that thing is supposed to provide vacuum and it isn't. I think i have it identified in CAPS as "fuel vapor check valve".
Here are the pics, please give any input.




Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

Thats the EVAP solenoid. Basically, this thing opens up at certain times, to recirculate gas vapors from the gas tank, into that vacuum hose that attaches to the TB. Its all emissions crap..

Well i also tried to bypass it and hook the two hoses directly together but that doesn't seem to work, i get the same thing. Otherwise i would have just gotten rid of it. My ECU is stuck in safe mode until i figure it out. As i'm doing seraching i'm finding a lot of people having evap solenoid problems but they are just CEL's...nobody's ever had one stop working and cause problems?


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

yeah, generally, any issue with the EVAP system will NOT cause any irregualar things to happen with the motor and how it runs. Its just used to keep gas vapor from reaching the atmosphere. Safe mode in the ECU usually happnes when the o2 goes bad..but i think you have fuked with that for a long time now right? What exactly is your car doing, or not doing?

this is what happened:
trip to KC. Car is running fine, avg speed 100. EGTs drop and car runs like shit. no clue why. car sputters at idle, won't stay idling without 10-15% idle. tried resetting ecu, no avail. continued to kc, got home. no change.
Changed:
valve cover gasket
spark plug wires
spark plugs
problem cleared up for a while. then intensified.
Changed:
O2 sensor again
A few weeks went by my car being unable to be driven.
Drove 60 miles to a friends house adn checked the following:
(replaced bad FCD with a new missing link!)
Cam Angle Sensor
ECU
MAP sensor
TPS
IAC
his O2 sensor
his entire throttle body.
...on accident, i left the vacuum hose disconnected on my drive home and noticed my car was running fine. I could hear the hissing and realized it, then pulled over and put the vacuum hose on. Car died. Problem solved? No. Car will run in safe mode only with this vacuum line disconnected, car also runs ultra-rich with this line disconnected. Car burps when i let off accelerator. Gas mileage sucks ass with it disconnected. Idle is 1100. One day at work a few weeks later i said, what the hell and connected the line again. Car burped and idle was normal. car ran great. Middle of last week, i start up the car and everything goes back to shit. So here i am with a disconnected vacuum line.
I have not checked a new map sensor since i got the Missing Link installed. But I don't think a bad map sensor would cause a difference with vacuum line.
If i connect the vacuum line, the car dies w/o adequate throttle.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

i'll go ahead and post this picture that i took a month or two ago when the problems first started.
Could it be the fact that i don't have the intake mani connected to the valve cover? all my stock shit was nasty so i threw it all away and capped that other vacuum line. here is the picture



Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

i'm an insomniac...so disgusted. i hate when i can't figure stuff out.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

why dont you try to connect the hose from the manifold to the valve cover? even if you think it isn't the problem, it can't hutrt to try. you arte going to fell dumb if you try everything else, and nothing works, and that is the last thing you do. connect that shit up, it will take like 2 seconds, and you never know, it might work.

I can't really just do it, i mean i can try. last time we hooked those two together as soon as i would boost there would be lots of smoke and oil all over teh place and it just wasn't a good thing. there's a check valve on the factory connector that i dont have anymore.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

Thats the PCV valve you capped off, from what I understand that is not a good thing. It should only be a couple bucks for a new one. I would replace it if I were you.

only one is capped off, the other one on the valve cover leads to a catch can. i think thats no big deal because i drove it like that for quite a long time before any problems.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

Yeah, you NEED to have that PCV valve on there. Go to Autozone or wherever, and pick up a new one. YOu are getting oil all over when that vac line is connected, because the Pcv valve isnt there,and you are sending straright boost pressure into your vlavecover. Get the Pcv, connect it so the motor sucks in air from the VC, and boost is blocked. That will take care of that problem. I's start with that first. Then i will always suggest a compression test, fuel pressure test(be sure its right where it needs to be), and check the timing belt and be sure all marks are lined up. Start with the basics to rule them out, then go from there.

And, to be more specific, that's the EVAP Purge Solenoid. Steven Mitsu (Mega Satan) said it was the cause of my CEL31. They said part would have to be ordered and runs just under $200. Funny how I never had any idle problems related to mine. I went to a salvage yard (I'm usre you're familiar with Northwest Imports down there - if not GO and get this part for cheap) got a different one and replaced with no results.

If you find that the vac line itself is not clogged and the new PCV doesn't help, let me know. I have the original solenoid in my bathroom closet I can give you because you're cool like that and stuck in Kan's ass. :P I don't know WHY it's been in my bathroom closet, but at least I know I have it and where it is, right?

Best of luck to joo!

dr1665@cox.net

Haha they are capped off and not connected. My friends and I did that to begin with a few months ago when we put the FMIC on and i couldn't figure out what the hell was going on with everything. Then after some contemplation we were like "oh yeah, that had a PCV valve on it" so we pulled it off and capped both ends, just as that picture states. That solved the problem. I'll go buy a PCV valve and reconnect the two lines but i doubt it'll solve anything.

One more question: Is it safe to suck on that line to test for vacuum? I did it a few times when i was messing with it but damn is it nasty. I don't want to fuck myself up :)


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

are pcv valves two way? i forgot.

It might allow the car to breathe enough through the crankcase. I didn't think the intake mani would be dependent upon crankcase pressure.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

Yes, the PCV will let air into the intake from the vlave cover. This is needed to keep the entire crankcase under a negative pressure. Then when you boost, the PCV will close off(it will still leak some, thats normal, its not a true check vlave), and then the rest of the breathing is done by the VC breather line.

It is worth a shot i guess. any particular valve i need to get? I think I tried that one before but didnt have any luck. Could have been a combination of things. I'll let you konw tomorrow. I wonder why it worked for so long.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

Tonight i went to the all-night parts store and bought a pcv valve. installed it correctly, and it is not the problem. I decided to take a friendly drag off the throttle body vacuum hose to see if i could get anything. I can get nothing. No vacuum. As hard as i could suck, i got nothing. God Damn this car.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

can't you just replace both those crank breather things with silicone hosing? where exactly is the vavle anyhow? i have cracks in both of the hoses and my car runs sorta shitty.

I personally don't care how my car runs, i just don't want my ECU stuck in safe mode the whole time. It's pointless to have all of these mods when i can't boost.

I got one of those vacuum guns now so i don't have to worry about getting toasted on fuel vapors :)


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

I can't bypass that solenoid. i did more extensive work over the weekend. I get no vacuum whatsoever when its all hooked up, but i am just fine if i bypass the solenoid and hook the two lines together. However, if i do that, the car runs WORSE than if it was all connected. It also smells like gas badly. I guess i'm going to try a new one. My car is also overheating now lol.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

I'll get that solenoid off to you asap. :thumbsup

OK, lets get you fixed up...

First things first, you have a CEL right?
If so pull the code from the ECU and see what its caused by, this will tell you why you are in safe mode...
Don't know how to pull the CEL code? Follow this:

Put the key in the ignition, and then turn the key from the off position to the RUN position (not start) three times... like this:
ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON... then leave it in the ON position....
The CEL light will then blink a certain amount of times to give you the CEL number...
You have to watch carefuly.. because you'll prolly get a few different 2 digit codes.... how do you tell the numbers? Easy.... the CEL light will blink so many times for the first digit.... then there will be a small gap, and it will blink so many times for the next digit.... then there will be a longer gap, before it begins the next MIL number....

Once you have the codes post them here and any one of us will tell you what the code means....

Where you located? If its in PA I can help you out...

Lee.

i can't keydance it-- i wish i could, it would make things a hell of a lot easier for me.
and even if i could, i pulled my CEL. I have it scanned at AutoZone awhile back when this first started happening and didn't pull any codes related to the EVAP system. Just a few MAP sensor codes, becuase my FCD wasn't functioning right (problem solved). Don't want to drive it anywhere right now because it's too hot and i haven't fully fixed the overheating junk.
DR- how much are you wanting man? let me know and i'll paypal it to you. and also i need to get you my address.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

I don't think yoour problems are being caused by the EVAP system... I think you have something else going on... sounds kinda weird...

Also, why can't you do the keydance trick? No CEL bulb?

It has to be vacuum related, at least I think. I think the keydance only works from 95-early 97 vehicles. i've never been able to get it to work. and yes, i pulled my CEL because of the custom exhaust.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

Ever do that compression test, and verify the timing belt marks??? Fuel pressure is correct?

Timing and fuel pressure are correct, have not checked compression.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

Hey,

The keydance trick works on all vehicles from 96-99...
I have a 99 and it works for me....

One question, you have an SAFC?
I once had some funky shit go on with my car, similar to what your having, and it was a bad connection at the AFC...

It sure is bafling the problem your having... let me think about it a little and get back to you...

Lee.

I had the car scanned and it only pulled two error codes:
one was the rear o2 sensor (always pulls this code)
and the other one said baro/map circuit high input or something along those lines. it's pulling those codes over and over again.
All of my settings on the AFC are correct. I happened to be w/ my friend who had the 2GNT 60 miles away, so i grabbed his MAP sensor, reset the ecu and got the same thing. So, it's not my MAP sensor. I actually got the car to idle BARELY with all vacuum lines hooked up, and took it down the street. It would hold a 650-700rpm idle, the EGTs never crossed 500C (very low!), and i was still hung at 4000rpm. The car was loaded up and was so rich it would take quite a bit of throttle for the car to go.
Can i just unhook the MAP i/o and leave the rest connected and see if that solves the problem?


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

Hi,
Yeah you can unhook the MAP I/O from the AFC, and then bypass the AFC.
I had to do this the one time when my AFC went screwy...

Bypass the AFc and see what happens...

Lee.

holy shit, you're a fucking hero. the car runs now!!! it runs great!! How could that have been the problem after all this time???
Thanks to everybody and everybody gets muchos puntos!


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

Congrats...

Like I said, the same sort of thing happened to me also...
The SAFC can be a finicky little bastard if your wiring isnt perfect...

Check the ground wires mainly... this is where I've seen probs before.....

I'm actually thinking about rewiring mine this weekend.... too many small little glitches cause of it...

The thing that can fool you is that even though the MAP signal may check out at the SAFC (Sensor check) it can still be fubared after the SAFC has processed it and passed it on... The SAFC has no way of checking its output signal....

Hmmm, actually you could hook the output up to both the ECU and the SAFC blue wire (Second MAF input)... hmmm, this would let you check the signal going out to the ECU.....

Lee.

Might have gotten pinched in the battery tray or something. Why can't we have a normal car with an ECU under the dash.


Jon

1997 Eclipse RS

13.887@104.648 5/30/03

www.haiokuracing.com