I hear a lot of shit about JDM (japanese domestic market) and im tired of hearing how tight their engine tech S**T is. And how so much better driving in Japan is......Now dont get me wrong i love love my Asian-American car DSM eclipse. and i am all for Vtec and VVTl-i and all the new tech thats avail now for 4 cyl's And i wouldn't dare be caught driving a late model Crusty Tang or Camarslo.... But YOU GUYS GOTTA ADMIT there's nothing like some good ole American muscle, the image, the pride, the culture and ever thing else is apart of us all. And you can count on it when im about 45 to 50 there will be a clean ass cherry red 68 or 69 Camaro in my drive way just used for crusin with the MRS.......(oh yeah and a 96 supra T.T for the strip) =) pls respond i want to know if im alone on this one

nah i do like older cars, but theres nothing like the looks and driving ability of a newer car!



Matt
95 Eclipse GS
my babys stock right now, few months and i should be boostin' with NER!

i love 60's mustangs and old vettes... but damn.. a 405hp Z06 is coming out... those corvette bastards are packing some heat. Still, id take a skyline gt-r over the vette anyday, unless i wanted a droptop.

yeah i love the oldies...i watch "gone in 60 seconds" all the time. my grandfather has an older mustang...baby blue with white leather int...first year ford made a mustang convertible with air conditioning. american muscule is amazing. but then again so is a 4 cyclinder putting out close to 600hp. that in my opinion is just evolution of the motor...but will never compare to the true muscule that started it all!

Talon
97'Talon Esi
Injen short ram intake
Rear-upper strut bar

(to be installed)
gs-t muffler
aem cam gears
af\x udp
56mm tb
injen cold air intake extension
eclipse sideskirts and door caps

no sense of pride but i think for the price American cars are the best deal if you want performance. I love the late model trans ams and firebirds, the new mustangs are also pretty nice.


javi d
vroom n' boom

Ya, the old cars are REALLY SWEET!! But there's no way I could own an old camaro or mustang over a TT Supra or GSX. I'd get an Eclipse or Supra before I get a Camaro or Mustang.

It's the sound of technology and evolution. It's the sound of our time. The sound of high reving, VTEC, turbo's and Blow off Valves, on 4 bangers, beating the SHIT out of V8's:P

But I do like them...just I don't think I would want to own one.



Ball Bearing Star Stage II
"Power is nothing without control"

i have to agree. i would pass on ANY import for the ground crushing torque and hp of a late 60's hemi charger. plus in all actuality, very very few imports will ever have the value of classic american muscle cars. im talking low miles, matching numbers, all original cars of course. even european supercars generally depreciate in value, whereas almost all truly original muscle cars are consistantly gaining value. plus, whos head doesnt turn when a sweet muscle car rumbles by?

mmmmmm 69 camero...in orange with twin white stripes down the middle :P

Oh hell yeah! Sweetest Camero I have in my mind is the one in the movie The Faculty. Black with orange racing strips. He come rippin into the parking lot, V8 rumbleing, leaving tire tracks everywhere. Damn that car is sweet. Also my dads 2000 Mustang GT....that car is fast. I mean when he punches it you are thrown back in your seat like you just got hit with a baseball bat. He is currently doing a Cobra engine swap....I don't think I could/will ever keep up with him.

But my heart is true to imports. I think Muscel cars are sweet to look at but I don't know if I would own one. I have had fords in the past and I had more problems with them than any other car I have ever owned. Imports will always be my first choice.

James
1999 Mitsu RS
Northstar White
mymitsu99@hotmail.com

Current Mods:
Iceman
Greddy Evo Cat-Back
Nology Hot Wires
NGK Plugs
S.Tech Springs
F&R Strut Bars
Ingalls Camber
Monsoons 18x7.5
Yoko Parada 225/40
Altezzas/Center Painted
Shaved Spoiler
GS side skirts
AFX UDP (on its way!)

Soon: Hotshot Header & Nitrous 60 shot

yeah i love old REAL american muscle. all the import mags talk about how the civic si has such great bang for the buck...well hows about this one. my uncle bought new and still has a 1968 charger r/t (440). the original window sticker for one of the fastest cars made that year??? $2,500...now thats bang for the buck. my dream car tho is a late 60's hemi cuda. too bad just the hemi would cost about 12 grand.
-JASON

I need money...wanna donate?

I like muscle cars a lot, but I love imports. Everything has been done over and over again with muscle cars. There is really nothing new to look at with those cars. Dont get me wrong, when I see a 69 Camaro or a Hemi Cuda roll down the street with a sweet ass paint job and loud has exhaust I turn my head. I think to myself, "Damn that looks sweet." But when it comes to imports, there is always something new. Now, I know that cant always be said for all imports but there are a lot of imports out there that havent been given much attention to. Like 240sx's. They are awsome cars and where I live they are scarce. Imports are the new wave of sports cars. They have brought technology that has spread to american manufactuers. They are trying to make cars that fit into the sport compact market. All of you are right, nothing can replace that good ol american muscle but its time to make way for the new.

Star Stage 1 E-trim and stock exhaust
14.91 @ 93.94 with 3psi of boost
60ft-2.21
330ft-6.27
1/8-9.62
Best 60ft ever- 2.21

One of my best friends drives a clean red 91' 240sx that is pretty well modded. Intake/header/exhaust/complete suspension. He's currently in the works of putting together a high compression fully built 240sx engine with a 100 shot of No2. I look for him to be running low 13's to high 12's when he's done. It also handles awesome and coupled with the good low torque and RWD, he comes off the line hard. I usually dont catch him till around 50mph.





"Yes, thats Shaun shooting the finger"

The old American muscle cars were great. Problem is until recently they cont to try and sell outdated bullshit. Its not like Ford and Chevy dont have the resources to develop VTEC and other shit, hell in Europe ford does compete with foreign cars. Why I dont like american cars for the most part (knowing my drivetrain is) is they think they can offer bullsh*t cars and technology and thats acceptable and we will just roll over and cont. to buy that sh*t. In the 60s Chevy, Ford and Mopar were going all out to give the people the best they could. Shit 396 Chevelles, 428 Cobras, Roadrunners they weren't fucking around. Dont bother showing me a live axle mustang, pushrod OHV 2.2L cavalier, 3sp automatic neon, that shit belongs in caveman museums not a 99' car. They've been giving half ass shit so long they can barely compete with the sh*t japan sends over, God help they send their best. Detroit should have done their homework and hardwork instead of living on the past morals and names. Now FUCK EM unless they produce something I really want. They got much work to do and the Focus aint the answer, its just one econobox. What do they have to compete RSXs, Preludes, Celica GTS's, not a God damn thing.


Since I cant use photopoint IMAGINE THIS:
Star turbo with E-trim and HKS BOV
Starion FMIC/2.5" piping
Joe P MBC
Apexi SuperAFC
Ross Pistons/total seal rings
Ported and matched intake manifold
AFX 55mm TB, FMM and UDP
2.5" downpipe back exh/Hayame muffler
Crane wires/Denso Iridium plugs
Centerforce DF clutch
KYB AGX struts/ST springs, UPR FSB, F&R camber kits
17" ADR lightnings/toyo FZ4 215/45/17
97' eclipse front end/projectors
Autometer gauges
Panasonic head unit/ Sony X-over
MB Quarts all around/JL stealth sub
Hifonics/MTX Thunder amps
XX brand alarm/Varad hyper green led

Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon 420A-Turbo
Former and future nitrous user

i'll take a 69 camaro ss myslef!

Chris Dishmon

The klipz is still rotting outside in the parking lot destined for the bodyshop.

chrisdishmon@hotmail.com
http://klipzracer.homestead.com/index.html

Oh hell, big block, large displacement, enough torque to pull Earth along for the ride... (insert Tim Allen grunt here!!!)

So yeah I like muscle cars... new and old, except the new Mustang... not my favorite, I would take an old Mustang, just not a new one. My first favorite car was the Corvette, and I will own one, one day. The one advantage you guys overlook when modding the simple design and low tech approach to engine design... it's cheap to mod, and there are more parts out there for Corvette's, Firebird's, Camaro's than you can even find. The price of a rebuild kit with stregnthened internals for a Chevy small block is a half to three quarters the price of a kit for one of our cars and they have twice as many cylinders! The price to get equal levels of performance of the motors... if you only want to worry about money... then your best bet is to mod americal muscle.

It wasn't until I got my Neon that I really started to respect the capabilities of a "little" four banger. Because the body is light and the engine so high reving. I was able to beat some late 80s Firebirds, Camaro's, and took some Mustangs... I was damn impressed with that little motor... and I've been working on 420As since.

"Claim Victory in your heart, and the universe will follow."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, AFX UDP, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors and Carbon Fiber Pads, S-AFC, A/F Meter

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors and KVR Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Clutch Line, Rear Motor Mount Ins., EGT

Waiting for from RRE: Front Lower Tie Bar

Waiting for: Intake Manifold being ported/polished

if its all about size and muscle, id take a viper. 8.0 liters putting out the same power as some 2.0 liters eclipses. now there is some technology worth $65000

I like some of the older domestics except crustangs. and the only thing i hate more than an old crustang is an old crustang owner. they only like their car and have no respect for any other car. as far as new domestics hennessey venom 800. twin turbo v-10 833hp 902torque and 0-60 in 2.4sec.

You beat me to it 55shot98, that's the car I was thinking of!!!

I love that thing... but you have to love a 255mhp Callaway Corvette too.

"Claim Victory in your heart, and the universe will follow."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, AFX UDP, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors and Carbon Fiber Pads, S-AFC, A/F Meter

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors and KVR Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Clutch Line, Rear Motor Mount Ins., EGT

Waiting for from RRE: Front Lower Tie Bar

Waiting for: Intake Manifold being ported/polished

yeah that one guy is right.......the focus is a joke if ford thinks that is gonna compete with any honda mitsu or toyota. The new SVT focus may compete power wise but in looks BLAH.......you gotta be kiddin me. what if acura decided to make an affordable NSX then what are they gonna do

>if its all about size and
>muscle, id take a viper.
>8.0 liters putting out the
>same power as some 2.0
>liters eclipses. now there is
>some technology worth $65000

The whole point of the Dodge Viper is not about technology. If you ever get to watch Speedvisions' American Musclecar with the Dodge Viper, you'll see why the Viper was made. Its not about technology, its about affordability and simplicity.



Soniclipse
1997 Black Mitsubishi Eclipse RS A-4
Mobil 1, Valvoline Synpower PS fluid, Bosch Plat. plugs, clear bumpers, Ractive Fusion headlights, more to come.

I like anyone making their car perform better, import or domestic, but there are some cars that are hella annoying. Fox body Mustangs and non Si/b16A Civics. I actually like the 99-up Mustangs, but the Fox ones are completely played out. Enough. Same with the Civics. I wouldn't mind owning a hybrid hatch or a new Si, but everywhere you look is a Civic. I also hate shitbox/redneck CamaroBirdChevelles ect. or whatever looks white trashy or any wannabie pimp/gangsta/riceboy mobile.

Soniclipse
1997 Black Mitsubishi Eclipse RS A-4
Mobil 1, Valvoline Synpower PS fluid, Bosch Plat. plugs, clear bumpers, Ractive Fusion headlights, more to come.

New domestics are not that bad, but most of them (Chevy V8's especially) dont offer the type of technology that japanese and european auto makers provide. They need to start making more DOHC V8's and V6's. Pushrod motors are too old school and are not as efficient and reliable as DOHC and SOHC motors. You have to admit Ford has been trying to do that. And they did with the new Cobras and Crustangs GTs. They may not have done a good job with it but they are the only american company that has at least made an attempt to step into the future and do away with the past. Chevy on the other hand has only made one attempt as far as I know. It was the best thing they have ever done but they think like old rednecks so they stopped making the motor. What Im talking about is the LT5 that was in the ZR1 Corvette. That was a badass DOHC V8 that came with 405hp. I was lucky enough to drive one of these. They cost about 75k brand new. Of course they no longer make them and I think its a shame. They should have made the rest of their V8's that way. Also, the Viper is a pushrod motor and is not a technical wonder. Sorry for the long post. :)





Star Stage 1 E-trim and stock exhaust
14.91 @ 93.94 with 3psi of boost
60ft-2.21
330ft-6.27
1/8-9.62
Best 60ft ever- 2.21

I wouldn't say pushrods are unreliable or inefficient. The design definately works. There are a lot of beasts out on the street running pushrod motors. generally they don't have as high a red line. But the pushrod motors are generally strong and tough. Just a side note on the ZR-1/LT-5, since my first love is a Corvette... That motors was designed in conjuction with Lotus, does that sound familiar **cough 420A cough** And after Lotus helped to design that motor shortly after a V-8 appeared in the Lotus that used to carry a very potent turbo I-4.

"Claim Victory in your heart, and the universe will follow."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, AFX UDP, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors and Carbon Fiber Pads, S-AFC, A/F Meter

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors and KVR Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Clutch Line, Rear Motor Mount Ins., EGT

Waiting for from RRE: Front Lower Tie Bar

Waiting for: Intake Manifold being ported/polished

who cares about technology, what hi tech import can you buy that will get you 12s for 30k ? low 14s for 25k ??
i love imports as well, but i don't think its them not wanting to use technology, its the fact that they are doing just fine with they're 'old fashioned' motors.

javi d
vroom n' boom
bone-stock dsm performance :)

Originally posted by jZa
who cares about technology, what hi tech import can you buy that will get you 12s for 30k ? low 14s for 25k ?? i love imports as well, but i don't think its them not wanting to use technology, its the fact that they are doing just fine with they're 'old fashioned' motors.

Well, this wasnt true 2 years ago but now there are cars for 20k that will break 14's...mine included :)

>New domestics are not that bad,
>but most of them (Chevy
>V8's especially) dont offer the
>type of technology that japanese
>and european auto makers provide.

The current generation of Chevy V-8's are quite high tech, being OHV. Hollow cams, deep skirt block, quick heating exhaust manifolds. The number of cams/valves doesn't necessarily define high tech.

>They need to start making
>more DOHC V8's and V6's.

They are.

>Pushrod motors are too old
>school and are not as
>efficient and reliable as DOHC
>and SOHC motors.

Old school? Maybe. But efficient? Depends on the application. I mean, what can you compare the Chevy V-8 to? No one else makes OHV's anymore since Ford stopped installing the 5L in the Explorer. As for reliability, why do you think the Chevy V-8 is widely regarded as one of the best engines ever?

You have
>to admit Ford has been
>trying to do that. And
>they did with the new
>Cobras and Crustangs GTs. They
>may not have done a
>good job with it

THey have done a good job. 260hp from a smaller V-8. (The last 5L had 225hp).

but
>they are the only american
>company that has at least
>made an attempt to step
>into the future and do
>away with the past.

What about the new I-6 in the GM SUV's?? I guess they still are in the past. : )

Chevy
>on the other hand has
>only made one attempt as
>far as I know.

One attempt at what?

It
>was the best thing they
>have ever done but they
>think like old rednecks so
>they stopped making the motor.
>What Im talking about is
>the LT5 that was in
>the ZR1 Corvette. That was
>a badass DOHC V8 that
>came with 405hp.

But what would you say if the new Z06 with a OHV can match that power with out 4 cams? Id say thats wonderful. Who cares if the cam is in the block? What matters is that the LS-1/6 is a well thought out engine that deserves credit.

I was
>lucky enough to drive one
>of these. They cost about
>75k brand new. Of course
>they no longer make them
>and I think its a
>shame. They should have made
>the rest of their V8's
>that way. Also, the Viper
>is a pushrod motor and
>is not a technical wonder.

The Viper was not made to be a techie. Its all about simplicity and afforability. Plus it turns heads. : )

>Sorry for the long post.
>:)
>

Rot in hell!!!!! : )

>
>
>
>
>Star Stage 1 E-trim and stock
>exhaust
> 14.91
>@ 93.94 with 3psi of
>boost
> 60ft-2.21
>
> 330ft-6.27
>
> 1/8-9.62
>
>Best 60ft ever- 2.21


Soniclipse
1997 Black Mitsubishi Eclipse RS A-4
Mobil 1, Valvoline Synpower PS fluid, Bosch Plat. plugs, clear bumpers, Ractive Fusion headlights, more to come.

I think imports are a lot faster than the modern day domestics. The tech is so much better. A 4 cylinder that can walk a V8. I am however a fan of old muscle cars. That's heritage. That's when a american car was worth buying. When they made them good, and fast. Now, there are so many restrictions and everything to make the american cars fall short. They just aren't made like they used to be. I love my eclipse though. I have some nice plans for it. I'd rather have it than a slower car with twice the engine under the hood.

I didnt quite type what I meant clearly. I know that some of the new OHV V8's are very high tech for what they are and its my mistake for saying that they need to make more DOHC and SOHC V8's and V6's. I just realized today that there are a lot of those type of engines made by american manufacturers. The LS1 is an awsome motor. My friend has a 99 Z28 and that thing hauls ass. Sonic, good point about the LS6 making almost as much power as the LT5 without 4 cams. But I didnt mean it in power sense. I know any type of motor can make as much as another. Regardless of design. I just wanted to point out the advancement of engine design and how much better it was compared to the way old school, even though I didnt type in that way.




Star Stage 1 E-trim and stock exhaust
14.91 @ 93.94 with 3psi of boost
60ft-2.21
330ft-6.27
1/8-9.62
Best 60ft ever- 2.21

You gotta be kidding me calling the newer pushrod engines high tech. If the LS1 had DOHC it would probably be 75hp more powerful. ever notice when BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Toyota, Ferrari whoever makes a V8 with the proper technology it makes the same hp as a chevy V8 with up to 2L less displacement. That high tech is spent making sure pushrods dont break and buckle pushing 6000rpms instead or making some real strides in technology like they should be. Ford and Chrysler are doing better, You wont find a pushrod engine in any of their cars (except the Viper). Chrysler still has pushrods in their trucks but who cares. GM on the other hand is a backwards ass going nowhere company that doesn't get it. Show me anybody excited about anything they have to offer other than the Corvette. The Camaro hasn't changed too much other than a uglier face lift and one pushrod engine to another since 93'. The Corvette is good but wont be as good as it could be until it gets into the 21th century. What other company would invest engineers, time and money to develop a new pushrod engine (LS1) so late in the game other than GM. Who else trademark V6 (3800) would be over a decade old and low tech as usual. Fuck them.

Since I cant use photopoint IMAGINE THIS:
Star turbo with E-trim and HKS BOV
Starion FMIC/2.5" piping
Joe P MBC
Apexi SuperAFC
Ross Pistons/total seal rings
Ported and matched intake manifold
AFX 55mm TB, FMM and UDP
2.5" downpipe back exh/Hayame muffler
Crane wires/Denso Iridium plugs
Centerforce DF clutch
KYB AGX struts/ST springs, UPR FSB, F&R camber kits
17" ADR lightnings/toyo FZ4 215/45/17
97' eclipse front end/projectors
Autometer gauges
Panasonic head unit/ Sony X-over
MB Quarts all around/JL stealth sub
Hifonics/MTX Thunder amps
XX brand alarm/Varad hyper green led

Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon 420A-Turbo
Former and future nitrous user

I want a Zo6 so bad. Its the only muscle car I like.

stan said it all for me. thanks man :thumbsup

You brought up a 2 and a half year old thread to say you want a Z06? :wary

lol

man. i have a list of favorite cars. the top is all of the chrysler/mitsu twin cars (3000GT/Stealth, Eclipse/Talon/Laser, Starion/Conquest), and right up under that is the F-Body twins and vette. but the ultimate, i mean the ultimate, the car i know i'll never have but always want is a custom (to my liking) black '57 bel air hardtop. i'm talking 502 big block with fuel injection, a blower, and some juice, riding low on 18x8's on the front and 19x10s on the back. all of the trim will be chrome (stock some of it was gold) and the fuckin system in that bitch would be insane (you can stuff like 8 dead bodys in that tub of a trunk). it'd be like the most crazy project ever. and i'd drive that shit too. i don't believe in keeping cars locked up :thumbsup

fuck muscle cars... 4 + boost = bybyv8

8 + boost = bybyv12 :+

yeah late model domestics are bad ass but sooo undriveable they break down all the time i had a 81 z28 camaro and i loved that car more than my talon but it wasnt running all the time but they are much easier to work on so i sold it after i got my talon becausee i lost intrest in building it up but i wish id never have sold it ;(