what i wanna know is why is the 4g63 always faster than the 420a, i mean if you compare dsmtuners.com times and the ones on our forum, we always get shafted. is it because nobody has done as much work as those or can th 4g63 is better at something, i just need a little input before i decide to dump some more cash into mine or buy a gst/x later on down the road

This will always be an issue in the DSM world. IMO there isnt a comparison between the two motors. The 4G63 is a turbo'd motor from the factory and the 420a isnt. You can put a turbo on a 420a and make it faster, but you are limited on the amount of boost you can push on stock internals that were not designed to handle boost. Now build the bottom end of your of your 420a and crank up the boost.

aiigt thanks and now it raises another question since i see people w/built motors and turbo y are they only doin 13s

cause they dont go to the track all the time...its the truth, i bet there are a lot of guys on here that could run low 12s or high 11s if they went to the track.

oooooooo makes sense to me :thumbsup

Well stop and think about this for a second...The majority of people who wanted a turbo clipse/talon got the one that came like that from the factory..it was pretty much always like that..you wanted boost, you got one wiht the 4g63 in it. You guys have to remember, turbo'd 420A's is still pretty new territory. The turbo 4G63 has been around since when? Like 13 years now...Also, the majority of the real fast 4g63 guys are running all wheel drive. That help A LOT at the track, helping those guys pull some awsome 60ft times, and results in great 1/4 times. We are stuck with FWD, meaning bad traction with no LSD, and using street tires...its MUCH harder to run a fast 1/4 on a FWD car..look at the GST's times..prob not too far off of what most of us built block turbo guys on here can run..The boosted 420A is pretty new, really its become very, very poplular withing the last year or two, since the availibilty of turbo kits, and built motor parts..Just give it time, I'll bet within a few years, there will be LOTS of very competitive boosted 420A's out there..its already begun :) My car is capapble of mid/high 13's currently..but like i said, traction and getting a good start off the line, is pretty tough for a FWD.. I've trapped a best of 101.5 MPH.

Do you have a timeslip? Not everyone races the quarter mile. In fact, not that many people actually go to the track. Take a look at how many people have timeslips on that site - 129 as I'm looking at it right now. Add to that that only 42 of them are FWD. Thats not very many "racers" for a site with 19,000+ members. Also take a close look at that overall list again, there's people with GSXs in the 14s.


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thanks for the facts metaljim i guess its how much u wanna spend eih

One huge reason, and its not the motor, its traction, awd will be faster in the quarter simply because they will pull 1.8 60 ft times with no traction mods. Us, tottaly different story. I went down the track three times last week just to see what mine would run, I will not tell you the time (horrid) but Iwill tell you I was trapping 98 mph, that is a mid 13 second pass with traction which we lack severely. There are some guys on here with built bottom ends trapping 105+, thats a high 12 with traction, they are in the high 13's, its not the motor so much as how hard it is to launch a car in boost that naturaly wants to rock backwards which in turn distributes weight to the rear making the front tires spin, and spin, and spin some more. Slicks and suspension mods will make these cars much faster but most people shy away from slicks because of the damage they can do. Clutches, axles, gears, they don't enjoy 4000 rpm clutch dumps with no tire spin.

good point why don't many people just upgrade their lsd's and what are these susp upgrades u speak of, stiffer springs? strut bars lol, or maybe some kinda dampener

If you really want to launch the shit of of a FWD, high HP car:

-lowered front end, with medium/soft struts
-raised or stock height rear suspension, with VERY stiff struts
-upgraded axles, so they can take some abuse..at least more than stock
-some good true drag slicks, or even some Nitto 555 drag radials
-get as much weight out of the trunk or back end area
-weigh down the front end
-solid front and rear motor mounts
-Either a Phantom Grip Slip in LSD, or the true LSD Quaife
That should get you some really good launches, providing you can figure out the best way to launch it. Its an art, a skill, a PITA :)

You basically want to keep the front end planted to the ground, so the tires dont jump up when you accelerate. If you look closely at a race, when the car takes off hard, the entire front end likes to pop right up. For AWD cars, this really isnt too big of deal, but for use FWD, it means EVERYTHING for traction..

hmm i will go in the chain of answers
1st high hp :P

yeh what you wanna do is match the new SRT4 engine up to the 4G63 bwahaha. Those are pretty much on par. it was called a AXXX I forget. The 4G63 is a monster engine also, its built to take boost unlike the 420A where you have to rebuild it to get to a higher level. I'll say the stage 2 kits we have can match or even better a stock or lightly modified GST/X due to our light weight.

A855 in the SRT-4


I dont worry to much about 4g63's. granted they arent regular occurances here and they are usually stock. I just got stomped on by a WS6 on the highway a few days ago.....The SRT-4 mod bug has bittin. I will send that chicken-mobile crying home to its mommy. :)

XtremeRS hit right on the head. My biggest downfall is traction. Lets just put it this way....I have none! Launching IS an art and I suck at it. Practice makes perfect

>A855 in the SRT-4
>
>
>I dont worry to much about 4g63's. granted they arent regular
>occurances here and they are usually stock. I just got
>stomped on by a WS6 on the highway a few days ago.....The
>SRT-4 mod bug has bittin. I will send that chicken-mobile
>crying home to its mommy. :)
>
>XtremeRS hit right on the head. My biggest downfall is
>traction. Lets just put it this way....I have none!
>Launching IS an art and I suck at it. Practice makes perfect

its called installing LSD, that thing turns your car into a grip machine ^_^

just liek it was said, they were made for boost. Their ecu's recognise boost and know how to handle most situations accordingly. Ours freak out. We have to tinker with timming , fuel, etc. They have the advantage here since the 4G63 has been out since the 80's.

Yes I say match up the new srt neons and pt cruisers ( well they are heavy). Stock for stock they are both factory boosted and run bad ass times.

Very true. The problem in a nutshell w/ 420a is traction. If you look up most times for GS-T's, they match up fairly well w/ built turbo'ed 420a's. GSX's w/ AWD are a completely different territory as they have traction.

Have to also realize that the 4g63t is arguably one of the best 4cylinders ever produced from the factory. There is a reason DSM's usually get a good amount of respect :)



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for one weekend, lighten the crap out of your car and then see how fast it is, then, take it to the next level, and run some sticky tires like hoosiers or Pirelli corsas etc... My buddy did that to his car and, i dont remember the numbers, he saw a significant gain, all in one weekend. Well, he had me for help of course.

this thread is older than the hills noob!

fuel management is holding us back. plain and simple.

It's not all fuel though, although that does play a major role, having a car tuned in right can be a difference of several HP.

Xtreme - do you have your Retrofit LSD in yet? I see your track time and I'm hoping the answer is no. Mine's in but I've been unable to drive my car ;(