Well I'm out of school now, so I don't really NEED my car for anything, and I'm home most of the time, so I am considering changing me head gasket. I want to get it done before I finish up my turbo stuff. Its leaking from the driver's side corner, but I'm not losing compression. My question really is, how hard is this to do? For those of you who have done it, how long did it take, and what special tools did you need? How much experience did you have prior to this? And one last question, would you recommend doing it at home, or just dishing out the cash for somebody else to do it?

Aye bro... its not too bad...... your 1st time doing it though will be a pain in the ass....most shops will do it for about 600$ but you could do it for a lil under 100$ in tools and parts all you need is a 3 arm puller (tool) metric wrench/socket set(tools) a new gasket about 50$ @ crystler 55$ at Mitsu. just make sure to get the MLS one.. and do not use any spray...Its not hard to change.. Its just very time consumming your first time......aye you could end up like me a do it 4-5 times and be able to tear it aprt in about an hour :). But if you have any ques. e-mail me wonderrecords@msn.com

Jake





97' Eclpse GS 420A
MODS*****
AEM cam Gears,MSD ignition,Chikira 4-2-1 header,Custom 2.5" exhast,Pacsetter hifloc

Whats a 3 arm puller? To lift out the head or what? Thanks for the help. Where are u from anyways? I think I might give it a try.

Well considering I'm RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of changing my headgasket the first time, I'd say go for it. I too was leaking from the driver side corner and my compression tested out 210-220 across the board.

It's gonna take you about 4 days to a week considering how fast you work or if you take 30 minute breaks after 10 minutes of work like me, lol.

Special tools... you'll need a 3 jaw 5-ton pulley. You can borrow one from Autozone for free, you just need to put down a $40 deposit. You'll also need deep and shallow metric sockets (from 8mm to 19mm) and a rachet, a breaker bar, a torque wrench. Metric wrenches would also be helpful, but I didn't really have any.

Prior experience, umm, not much. The only things I'd done on my car before was change the suspension and steering rack.

I would recommend doing it at home yourself. When I first started I didn't even know which was the steering pump and which was the AC compressor, nor what that black box was under the intake. There is sooo much you'll learn about cars... it made me step back for a second and think, "that's it?? that's all there is? I thought cars were more complicated or something."

Be sure you have a Chilton's manual. Here's some links you might also find useful. I printed them out and helped me out tremendously:

http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G-NT.html
http://www.geocities.com/eclipsed4evr98/Timingbeltprocedure.html
http://www.geocities.com/vttalon/hg.html

So now my next question is, what is a breaker bar? Heard of it, and think I might know what it is, but I'm just gunna ask to make sure. When you guys did it, did you do it yourselves, or with a friends help? Thanks for the help guys!

A breaker bar is basically a long rachet used to loosen the really tight bolts. There's only a couple bolts you'll need it for... you might be able to do it without one.

I worked on it completely by myself. Make sure you have a good back if you're gonna lift the head yourself. :P

breaker bar is a bar attached to the square thing that the socket goes onto, breaker bars are used to free stuck nuts/bolts (possible break them too, which i've done) because if you put that much force on a wratchet you'd basically break it (which mine is right now, hmmm... wonder why)


and..... since you mentioned that little black box..... what is it? it's attached to the stock intake hose.

>if you put that much force on a wratchet you'd basically break
>it (which mine is right now, hmmm... wonder why)
>

Or scraped knuckles x(

>and..... since you mentioned that little black box..... what
>is it? it's attached to the stock intake hose.

Oh that cube on the intake hose?? Good question, I dunno. I was talking about the cruise control vacuum box, bolted behind the block under the intake manifold.

What about resetting the timing when I'm all done? Or do I not have to worry about that if I don't move anything?

Before you take the timing belt off, look at the marks. It's real easy to see the marks once you start working on it. There are marks on the cam gears and on the crankshaft sprocket. Make sure that the crankshaft sprocket is pointing to the arrow on the block, and that the cam gears are meeting each other, then take the tensioner off and remove the belt. When you put it back together, just make sure these marks are aligned. :D

Unless you are really fuckin' good, the timing belt needs to come off to get the head off to replace the gasket. If you didn't have a rear timing cover, it would be possible to lift the head without upsetting the timing. Once the head is lifted an inch or so, the old gasket can be slipped out and the new one in, installing/torquing the head, and then retensioning the timing belt.
But that's something I can do with a solid tensioner and no timing covers...
-=B-=

I have always used copper gasket spray on my HG's. Why would you not use it?

Yeah use the copper gasket spray.

Bill without timing covers how much grief are you going to get at the track? I know NED is strick for you guys. And I'm pretty sure there's a reg. that says timing belt needs a cover.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

and that little black box on the intake tube is a resonator to quite down the sucking sound, its removes/filters/quites the noise you get with an aftermarket intake you know that sucking/hissing/louder roar you get

Well I started. I only took off my intake, and my exhaust manifold head shield so far. Man that thing was a bitch. I ended up taking the fans out so I could get a ratchet on those front two bolts. But do I even need to take the exhaust manifold off? It's no big deal though, since the heat shield will have to come off anyways in a month or so when I go turbo. My only confusion is in all the connections that I have to disconnect. My Chilton's manual says I have to disconnect 1) a/c compressor 2) power steering pressure switch 3) heated oxygen sensors 4)engine coolant temperature gauge sensor 5) engine cooland temperature sensor 6) MAP sensor 7) intake air temperature sensor 8) throttle position sensor 9) idle air control (iac) motor 10) injector harness 11) ignition coil 12) camshaft position sensor 13) egr solenoid valve. I don't know where all of this stuff is, so should I just label where everything goes, and detach everything from the head up? Sorry for the long post, thanks for the help.

All of those things are mainly around the intake manifold except the a/c and powersteering.....its pretty much telling you you gotta take off your intake mani




Performance: Stuff that makes my car run better or go faster

Looks: Stock because looks doesnt make my car go faster or run better

Weight Reduction: CF Hood, No A/C or Powersteering Accessories, No rear interior

Take it all off. And since you are going to have to drain coolant just remove the radiator, more room to work.

Every sensor connection above the head and on the front of the engine. the sconnections on the back of teh block and the trans can stay, all other, off. And they ar unique connectors so no real need to label. P/S pump & bracket have to go, intake and exaust manifold, all has to go.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

and im guessing the valve cover obviously has to come off? I am just confused since I saw pictures of everything together out of the car (head, valve conver, and intake manifold) but I guess that gy must have put it all together for some reason. I dunno.

Yup, valve cover, cams, to get to the head bolts. the only reason I see to put it back would be to keep dust or dir, etc out of the head.

I also suggest getting the head to a machine shop to check the deck for flatness.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

Yeah, I will most likely. I might have some head work done, but I'm not sure. Is it worth it for the cost? Ho wmuch does it cost anyways? And how long does it take to relieve the fuel system pressure? Im letting it run now, after disconnecting the harness in the backseat.

You are letting it run? If you unplug the harness that connects to the fuel pump it will turn over and die almost immedietly if it will even turn over. Crank it for about 10 seconds and then your fine to procede.


Nick
97RS

Yeah i figured it would do that, but it started, and it ran for 20 minutes, and then i turned it off cuz my parents got pissed. what the hell. i unplugged the right thing, the thing behind the metal plate in the back seat. same as the pictures and directions in the chilton's manual. wtf?

I believe that there are two back there.. You might want to make sure you unplugged the right one.


Nick
97RS

i unplugged the one right in the middle of the backseat, same is in the chilton's picture. where is the other one at? you arent talking about the relays under the hooh by any chance are you?

Here this should help.. its what I fallowed
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/pump-WB-2GFWD.html


Nick
97RS

Hey thanks a lot man. You see that little metal square to the right? Thats the one that it says its under in the manual. I unplugged that, but I think that's just the plug for the gas gauge, cuz it went all the way down. Thanks again!

Anytime...

Nick
97RS

I got it down to the valve cover, and now I need a little help. Do I have to take the cams and everything out, or do they just stey in when I take the head off? If I have to take them out, where should I store them? Any little tips, or anything I need to know? Thanks!

You got the belt off already??

What I did was remove all the wiring, accessory belts, crankshaft pulley, tensioner, belt, cam gears... then when you got that all taken care of, remove the valve cover, loosen the 8 bolts that hold the head to the block, then pull the head off.

nope, belt is still on. the manual doesnt say anything about the crank pulley and some of that other stuff. did you take the cams out, or do they stay in the head?

You won't be able to lift the head with the belt still in place. Are you planning on replacing the timing belt soon? Cause now would be a good time since you're gonna take it all apart.

The cams can stay in the head until after you pull it out, that way you don't lose bolts all over the place.

exhaust manifold has one more bolt (need a deeper socket), got the valve cover off, got the throttle body off. How in the world am I going to get the intake manifold off? It looks nearly impossible with where those bolts are at. anyone wanna clue me in?

Hehe, yea the intake is nearly impossible to take off. I took the upper intake manifold off. Then raised the car, got underneath and stuck a ratchet in one hand and a flashlight in the other. It takes a while to get them all... there's like a dozen bolts or so.

I've also heard you can leave the intake mani on there, however you'd still need to get under the car and remove two brackets that hold the lower intake mani to the block. If you have cruise control you'll notice a black box attached to these brackets.

you have to remove the bolts from underneath the car. you need the longest extension to be able to remove comfortably.

should I just undo the 2 bolts, and pull it with the manifold on? i have some serious long-ass extensions, and I have a few, so I should be set.

if you timing belt has a fair amount of miles on it you might wanna change that while your at it.

Alright, I have a few more question for now. I got the upper intake manifold off, so could I pull the head with the lower manifold still on? Also, when I take the cams off, they have to go in exactly the same as before, I'm sure, but how did you all make sure that you put them in right. I marked the top on each of them, and I'm going to put them off to the side on the shelf in order, just so everything stays the same. What do I attach the puller to when I am ready to pull the head? Those black hook things? Thanks a lot guys. I'm almost there.

Shouldn't need a puller. I just he-manned it off with the manifolds on. It;s a bit heavym, but not that heavy. Here's how I did it (mind you, this is on the 2.4):

Remove turbo-downpipe nuts
remove mani-turbo nuts
remove oil feed line for the turbo
remove oil return line for the turbo
put motor to 90*
remove idler pulley (couldn't reach the tensioner yet)
removed timing belt
Removed valve cover
unplugged all of the sensors on the head and the intake manifold
removed all of the vac lines from the mani
pulled head bolts, in sequence
lifted the head + manifolds off all together

Didn't kill my back, either. Took me 3 hours or so.
-=B-=

Alright, well it looks like I'll just leave the lower manifold on then. Now the part I'm worried about is the timing belt. It seems like a bitch to get off. I might as well replace it while I'm in there. What else should I replace? I read those write-ups, and it seems even harder than the headgasket.

SUp man... seems like you had a bit ofproblems with the head removal.

Well, I just finished completely removing the whole engine out fo the car.... after like 5 days lol... consider me NEVER see anyone did it, did everything myself (except when lifter up the block) and my first time doing this stuff. It's pretty good.

About the head. I never went under the car for it. I just cut that DAMN timing belt. (thanks to autozone giving me a wrong puller) so I can't take off the crank pulley and wasted me 9 hours. I took off the two cams, and the pulley while the timing cover is on. I took off the exhaust manifold. took off the value cover, uncrew the 10 bolts. then use 10 wires to tie them up to the camshaft, then just lift the WHOLE thing up with the WHOLE intake manifold. And that's all. I tied the screws, so I don't have to lift up the head that much to get it out. And about the 2 bracker under the intank and the block, you can unscrew them from leaning over from teh driving side.. that's what I did. Took me 1 minute to take them both off. Easy.

About about the damn crank pulley... took me 2 days... that fucking pulley..I am just about to just break it. .LOL..

Good luck... and have fun.. I did everything in the rain..LOL.
But now.. I am done!!! and all I need now is take the block apart and FIX it..
Gil :thumbsup :thumbsup

Another question. How do I rotate the crankshaft to get the timing lines on the cam gears to line up? When I change the timing belt, what else should I change? My car has nearly 100,000 miles on it, so I wanna be safe. It would be great if you could give cost estimates also. Thanks guys.

To rotate the crankshaft I put the same bolt on there again, without the pulley, and used a ratchet to turn it. Not sure but I think you're only supposed to turn it clockwise... that's what I did just to be on the safe side.

Two crankshaft turns = One cam turn. If the cams gear marks are facing away from each other, turn the crankshaft once so they meet up.

Besides the headgasket and timing belt, I'm also replacing the tensioner pulley w/bracket, the idler pulley, and the water pump. Some people replace the tensioner too but I've never heard it going bad, so I cleaned it off and am gonna reuse it.

I had a little trouble compressing the tensioner, haha... I put it in between a jack and mom's car... it lifted the car and the tensioner still wouldn't compress! :o Keeping in mind mom's car weighs 3700 lbs, I figured the tensioner was still good.

I still havent got the timing belt off. I havent even gotten the accesory belts off yet. The one write up tells how to do it if the car is out of the engine, and the other one isn't very clear about doing it with the engine in the car, so I'm sort of lost. What is the easiest and quickest way to get it outta there?

CUT THEM!! that's the fastest LOL if you asking for it.
;)

seirously.....don't ask AUTOZONE..they are just ONE BIG FUCKED UP company...
I cutted my timing belt.... sighx( :nono ..... ALL THANKS TO autozone.
Gil

So how do I get these accesory belts off the right way? I don't wanna cut em. I will figure out the timing belt once I get these off. Am I going to have to take the crank pulley off? Also, how am I gunna get the cam gears off without using a "special tool"? If I used air tools, would I have to worry about them turning?

>So how do I get these accesory belts off the right way? I
>don't wanna cut em. I will figure out the timing belt once I
>get these off.

You gotta loosen adjustment bolts in the alternator. There's also an adjustment bolt to the power steering belt. It's a 14mm bolt you gotta turn about a hundred times and it moves a pulley, which allows some slack in the belt. Just keep turning it until there's enough slack that you can get the belt off.


>Am I going to have to take the crank pulley off?

Yeah, the crank pulley comes off. Otherwise you can't access the timing belt tensioner and you won't be able to remove the belt.


>Also, how am I gunna get the cam gears off without using
>a "special tool"? If I used air tools, would I have to worry
>about them turning?

I think it was Corbin's writeup that had pics of a steel bar with two screws drilled in. I copied the tool exactly as I saw in the pic and it worked great. Also, I made sure to loosen the cam gears BEFORE I took off the belt... and I tied the cam gears with green wire... just in case. :)


^^Cam gear removal tool

nice toolz bro!!! :thumbsup

http://www.flyservers.com/members4/wonderracing.com/images/picture 001.JPG



97' Eclpse GS 420A
MODS*****
AEM cam Gears,MSD ignition,Chikira 4-2-1 header,Custom 2.5" exhast,Pacsetter hif:

OK, if you still have your head in...and stll questioning..I hope this helps ok.

First, You have to do the following in Steps...
1) remove power steering, you don't have have drain all fluid, just unbolt the power steering, and let me hang there.
2) do the same to AC compressor, just unbolt it, and let it hang
3) remove the belt for the above two
4) remove all the bracket that holds the power steering, and AC Comp.
5) loosen the alternator, (I just took it off since I do rebuild)
6) use a ***5 TON 3-arm puller*** and put it on the crank pulley
7) use bunsion burner to burn the crank pulley center for 2-3 mins.
8) keep turning till bolts comes out
9) jack up your engine
10) loosen the engine mount and it's bracket.
11) now spent about 9 hours playing with it to take that bracket out. (you will need that 9 hours.. lol) (HINTS: you will have to take out the outer timing cover the same time with the engine mount bracket) (NOTE: USE FORCE!!!)
12) now, just cut the timing belt (you put a new one in anyway)
13) I just unscrew the cam with nothing special
14) take the cam gear out (they just slip off.. lol) (only if you want the take off the head, if not, just leave the cam gear in)
16) put your new timing belt in. that's all

HAVE FUN, if it's your first time, and never did it before, and have to take out that mother fucking engine mount bracket.. YOU WILL HAVE ALOT OF FUN.... as for me.... I am close to just fucking junk the car.. LOL.

BTW, you should change your alternator belt, AC comp belt, timing belt, water pump, and the oil pump.

Later.. hope that helps/
Gilbert

>>>You gotta loosen adjustment bolts in the alternator. There's also an adjustment bolt to the power steering belt. It's a 14mm bolt you gotta turn about a hundred times and it moves a pulley, which allows some slack in the belt. Just keep turning it until there's enough slack that you can get the belt off.<<<

Where are these adjustment bolts? I cannot find them for my life. This is the first time I have actually been stuck, and its on the freakin belts. What the hell? Does anyone have any pictures where they can point out these bolts?

Nevermind, I found the bolts. I got the power steering belt off, but now I just have to get that damn alternator bolt. Its nearly impossible to get to, I might need my friend's air tools.

DAMN THE ALTERNATOR ADJUSTMENT BOLT. That thing is on there with some serious lock-tite. I finally decided to try some WD-40, so we'll see how that goes. Do I also have to take the bolts out of the brackets? For example the alternator bracket bolts that you have to get from under the hood? My ratchet won't fit in there. I hate not having a good set of regular wrenches. This blows.