The headgasket needs a change, and the timing belt...


I was considering a few goodies,

Cams (#18 crane?)

Port Intake Manifold

Safc

Injectors?? (30lb ford?)

Cam gears?

Mill head for lower compression?

what do you guys think? Options and opinions please!

You'll prolly need to upgrade the entire fuel system if your gonna be running #18's. Id get Crane valve springs and some performance lifters and rockers too!! Im sure you meant to mention a port and polish job on the head with the milling, nothing extreme just a light port job (not much to take from the intake side, exhaust side of the head has some room to work with) most machine shops know what they are doing!! Other than that it sounds like a pretty bad ass all motor set-up!! Not gonna be cheap though, im going through the same process but im getting #16's not the #18s.

If you are going all motor why would you want to mill the head for lower compression. You shoudl be trying to get the highest compression possible.

you don't really mill the head to lower compression. milling the head takes material off of the head gasket mating surface, which brings the top of the combustion chamber head closer to the block, which shrinks the combustion chamber a little, resulting in higher compression.

the 30 lb/hour injectors would be perfect for an all motor setup, due to their "small" size. the OEM PCM can deal with those injectors almost like stock, which is nice.

don't forget, if you get radical camshafts you will have streetability issues like having a sketchey idle, and not having much power until X rpm's (kinda like a turbo)

the only veichle i've ever been in with top end mods was my friend's old '93 Audi 90 CSQ, which had camshafts with a 272 duration, which was pretty nuts. his useful powerband was moved from the 2000-5000 rpm's range to 3500-redline range. it gave him a little more top end power but his idle was kinda lumpy and his throttle response below 3000 kinda sucked. all in all, it was definately a good mod. but for the amount of money he paid for 25-30 WHP, i think there were better ways to spend it.

if you're going to do an insane all-motor setup, i think you should do a high compression rebuild with 10.5:1 pistons, the 30lb injectors, #16 cams, some porting and such, maybe the INDY man1fold when it's avaiable for us, some valves/springs/lifters/whatnot and then get nitrous oxide. get a GS-T muffler until you have more than 200 BHP (pretty dam near impossible on a N/A 420A if you asked me) i'd like to see a crazy mofo on the board using a 150 shot on forged internals. it would be sick.

Looks pretty familiar, read my recent posts about my mishaps with the copper headgasket.

Definately raise the compression, You posted wrong meant to say raise not lower by mill, give it a mill of roughly .030" will push you up to about 10.5:1. I actually should have been higher than that with the copper gasket and I took her for a brief spin with a couple of decent throttle runs, and she felt strong, too bad the gasket didn't seal and that was with the ECU having been run for a minute maybe two, so it had no idea on fuel trims.

You are going to want the S-AFC or you are not going to get a good idle. I was going to put in 310cc injectors(~30lb) but they were on back order. I'm going to wait till I can redo the fuel system now, unless when she's together and complete I'm overdriving the stock injectors too much. Otherwise it'll be Aeromotive FPR, the 310cc injectors, and redo the lined with of course a fuel filter, probably also Aeromotive.

Also you're going to want to cam gears to adjust for any variances due to timing. I was okay with the mill and the copper gasket, but I think when I have to redo it, there'll be enough extra to the MLS over the copper that I'll thow off the timing belt geometry. I actually took enough off that a full tooth from stock and pretty much back to almost dead on... I won't be so lucky again, I'm sure.

Get the manifold ported and polished. If it's in the budget get the head a mild port, mostly a polish for airflow. Have the machnie shop check the head out, make sure the valves seat well, if not get the seats reground. Since it's apart it's only $100 for valve springs, better safe than sorry, the stock valve springs lasted me a while, but I don't drive it everyday, and the more abuse you put them through the shorter a life they will have. If you can afford the whole shot spend the $250 on springs and titanium retainers, reduce the valvetrain mass. And definately get the Mopar Performance Lifters(give Bob Kise a call, he's cheaper than Howell on Mopar parts over the Eaton, mention 2GNT for the discount), and I recommend for big cams going with the Black Dog Motorsports Rockers, they have better oiling control than the PT cruiser Rockers which are a great upgrade and I think fine for most milder, lower lift cams.

The list of what went into my top end for you:
Crower Stage2 Cams
Fidanza Cam Gears
Mopar Performance Lifters
Black Dog Motorsports Rocker Arms
Crower Valve Springs
New valvestem seals, valve keepers
Stock retainers (would have liked the titanium, but $$$...)
Milled .030"+ (from my estimates machine shop guessed a little different, I mic'd the top to the deck, not sure what they did. I may cc the combustion chamber this time around...)
Ported and polished as well.

*edit* in responce to the you don't get power until a certain rpm with cams... well yes, but... the power band really starts on mine say around 2500. But I wouldn't say I've lost any power under that rpm, I could still cruise at 2k like before with no weaker throttle responce than before. Also with the raise in compression that will only aid the power band, all the way across.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

i think the gst muffler is good to 200hp BUT, when I recently added a greddy evo exhaust(2.36) to my setup the car gained all the low end i lost with the cams back as well as some nice high end gains, the difference is like night and day. when approaching high hp level with things such as a stage 2 cam, i think its essential to have bigger then 2.25 piping or a less restrictive cat or your just not getting what you can from the cams.

Yes I forget to address that. The GS-T muffler is good for stock cams and most mods... look at Todd. But I feel restricted with the GS-T and my cams, the addition of the High flow cat helped tremendously. But I need to get my exhaust done, 2.5" all the way back with a good resonator and muffler. I just need Steve(ERT) to have free time... oh yeah, the money and a running car would help too.

And stock piping is 2" Inner Diameter, not 2.25"



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

hey michael im curious to see what the gains are with the 2.5 piping. 2.36 really made a difference. i have the stock piping in my closet and yeah inner diameter is 2 inches after a quick measure, ha i thought it was 2.25 all along.

I have 2.5" cat-back on my 420A Neon, and it feels nice on a almost bone stock set up, just plugs, filter and wires. So with the cams I'm sure it will feel sooo nice :)

*edit* Sam (SEA97GS) has 2.5" and improved his 1/4 time as I recall.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

just out of curiostiy, why are you going all motor, and whats your goals for the car?

DWAYNE H

www.gottude.com
Red/Black/Silver 01 GSXR 750
Lots of Apexi components...

Why? Because I can and I'm not afraid.

I want to see what she'll do. Goals? 14's in the quarter on the 2.0L without major weight reduction. If I get far enough, possibly a 2.4L swap and weight reduction shooting for 13's.

Would it be easier... and cheaper with a turbo? Yeah, but why start doing things the easy way now. Plus I grew up loving, and still do muscle cars, the sound of a lopping cam is music to my ears.

If I had unlimited funds... or at least more than I have now, I probably tear down and rebuild my daily driver Neon (at 102k+ mi.) and turbo that. But I only have money for one toy... sometimes not even that much money.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

id recomend seriously thinking about the 2.4 swap all motor people are making very impressive numbers on the neons board...

id recomend a sheet metal mandrel bent intake like jason at phat ridz builds which he has recently left and ill be providing the 2gnt crowd with his beautiful intakes and exhuast manifolds... this will perform leaps and bounds above any stock ported manifold

if your would like more information let me know,


build the head crane 22's ferrea valves, port and polish the head,

aluminum rods coated pistons to hold up to n20 10.5/11/12.5:1

balanced and lightened crank,

polish crank and rods smooth then apply oil sheding coatings..

aluminum flywheel
UDP


SMT6 with ignition amps for advance timing more at high rpms..
this can control all your fuel needs even compensate for a large n20 shot...

that is what i would do if i was gonna go all motor cept it would have a bored out 2.4 block =)

(ponders a 2.7litre aluminum rod and pistons motor *gets Big Smile*

Bill

ohh i forgot cam gears and oh yea remove p/s and a/c for a couple more horsepower..

could think about usging thebrakemans.coms wave rotors for 10-15lb les per tire of rotating mass



last but least methonal is fun =) :thumbsup