Okay I contacted OutLaw-Engineering the other day about the possibility of them making a phenolic spacer kit for our cars. Their kits replace the OEM gaskets with phenolic gaskets. A usual kit comes with a gasket for the intake manifold (in our case probably upper and lower), and TB gasket (for cars that have coolant passages in their TB).

To see what the kit does in detail go here:
http://www.outlawengineering.com/index.html

Here is the email I sent to them and their response:

Cordell,
We do not currently offer an application for the Mitsu/Chrysler 420A, but this is one of the applications that we have been considering. Actually, we were under the assumption that the N/A Eclipse motor was just a non-turbo 4G63. Was this perhaps the case for the earlier DiamondStars? We generally request 20 firm commitments prior to the design, prototyping, and production
of a new performance part. Pricing for a set, including intake manifold and throttle body insulators along with necessary hardware such as lengthened studs would be in the $90 range.
To prototype a new set, we generally prefer to have acces to a full vehicle. This will allow us to investigate fit-up issues and to do a before and after dyno test to asses performance increase. We are located in Indianapolis, so if there are any interested parties in the central Indiana area that would be interested in having their vehicle used as a test bed, please step up. This would include a short session to evaluate the vehicle and take measurement data, followed by another session a short time later to install and evaluate the prototype set. This, of course, would be done
free of charge.
Please asses the interest for your group and let us know.

Best regards,
Sean Morgan
Outlaw Engineering

And before I get flamed for this, like I did when I came up with the idea of an Indy Manifold, here is some data off their site:


Here is the dyno of this kit on a 94 Ford Probe GT:


This plot shows an average gain of 5-7 horsepower and 9-11 ft-lbs of torque across the powerband. Each engine and combination of mods reacts slightly differently, but on average, Outlaw Engineering ThermoBlok spacers result in a 3-5% gain across the entire powerband with peaks as high as 10 horsepower and 12 ft-lbs of torque.

Sounds sweet for $95!

Now my question is on the throttly body spacer is it sized for an OEM throttly body or slightly larger or is the material made to be made bigger for larger throttle body applications???????



Performance: Stuff that makes my car run better or go faster

Looks: Stock because looks doesnt make my car go faster or run better

Weight Reduction: CF Hood, No A/C or Powersteering Accessories, No rear interior

>Now my question is on the throttly body spacer is it sized
>for an OEM throttly body or slightly larger or is the material
>made to be made bigger for larger throttle body
>applications???????
>

The cars with kits that include TB spacers have coolant passages in their TB. Engine coolant passes through these holes so that in cold climated the TB wont freeze and become stuck. I dont think there is a need for it on the 420a motor. And i think any gasker can be made bigger with a dremel. BUT I NOT 100% SURE ON ANY OF THIS.

Here is some info off their site:

I don't feel the need to keep the throttlebody cool, can I buy the intake manifold spacers only?

This is a common question made by people that don't fully understand the operation of the system. The throttlebody spacer is not meant to keep the throttlebody cool, but is meant to keep the intake manifold insulated from the heat of the throttlebody. Remember that the throttlebody is heated by engine coolant to keep ice from forming in cold climates. This heat transfers from the throttlebody to the intake so that the intake is now effectively heated from both ends. If we sold intake spacers only, we would only be providing have the system. If you simply have to have the manifold spacers only, please contact us.

didnt corbin ( i think?!?!) do this a year ago? i know someone did it and didnt have much luck with it concerning results. i could be wrong though. does anyone else know what im talking about?

http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/spacer.html

yeah, but he stopped making them i think...

I don't think our throttle body gets warm enough to warrant the spacer. That will only add to the engine bay space problem that most of us face already with the stock TB gasket and an intake. Other spacers are based on "swirling" the air and in theory making the air travel faster.

The intake manifold spacer makes sense which is why Corbin made them. Still, your not going to see much as far as gains go. I think this would be a waste of time and money for most people.

corbin did make the intake mani spacers... and someone already has made the TB spacer... i dont think that anyone has dynoed corbins spacer... but i know that the TB spacer was dynoed, and acutally showed negative effects. loss in hp AND tq, if i remember correctly

I dont think these are really a spacer like other spacers. OuLaw makes thick phenolic gaskets (1/4 inch think), which is thicker than a noraml gasket but not nearly as thick as the corbin spacer.

Since no coolant passes through our TB, we wont need a TB gasket, although one may be offered.

The Corbin phenolic spacer, was a spacer that stop the trasnfer of heat from the head to the upper half of the intake manifold, but the lower manifold still sustained massive heat soak. And it probably sustained more heat soak than a stock engine due to the fact that the lower manifold couldn't radiate heat to the upper half.

OutLaw makes phenolic gasket\spacers that go on the head itself which would cut a lot of heat to the upper and lower manifold.



In THEORY the corbin spacer would only produce half the results.

The concept behind this idea is great, I just don't think it is worth it. I would be interested in seeing dyno numbers, but then again a dyno doesn't really show much when it comes to air flow and air intake temperatures. I seriously doubt that the air gets that much hotter as it flows through the intake manifold. Not enough to affect performance that much anyway.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just my $.02

Dont forget that you will have to mod the EGR tube to be able to fit back to the manifold. Its a solid steel tube and wont bend or adjust to fit changes to the manifolds.

Then remove the EGR :) I hated that thing anyway, EGR is useless.

Yes we don't need the TB spacer because we don'thave a cooled TB, if we did, I'd be using and idea we came up with for Firebird/Camaro a while back that ran separate lines and cooled TB by itself.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

>Dont forget that you will have to mod the EGR tube to be able
>to fit back to the manifold. Its a solid steel tube and wont
>bend or adjust to fit changes to the manifolds.
>
>


Shit, just take it off :)


Heh, I'm gonna buy every goddamn little nick nack I can find. Spacer here, spacer there, windage tray, bla bla bla and dyno my car....oh that's right, i'm broke :(

The OutLaw gaskets are half the thickness of the Corbin spacer, so i doubt the EGR tube wont fit. But I plan on removing mine anyway.

Corbin's spacer is 1/2" thick. It was also well made. I think the big difference in Corbin and these guys is that corbin didn't bullshit you about how much power it would produce. Remember that the Helix vortex TB shit gave a Honduh or some shit like 10+ HP on their site. In reality, the Dyno shows you could have wasted your money on something else. Sorry, but this post was begging someone to break it down.

Well I tried, I guess i will tell them the 2GNT community doesn't want it.

Tell them to make a head gasket that lowers comprssion 1 point. One of very good quality, that is.

Thanks for trying to come up with new stuff for the 2gnt community though! :thumbsup

dirty its already made!

tti makes one

Bill

>dirty its already made!
>
>tti makes one


Yea, but for some reason all I hear is bad shit about it. Not like total shit, but shit like it works for a little while, then it turns to shit. I was gonna get it, but if I have to pull the head, I need some good shit. I can't be doing that shit all the time. Know what I'm saying?
:wary

Shit man, what he ^ jus said n shit. Well, try n get it made, jus seeing our 420a in more catalogues is great. We need mo parts. And if these things actually yield results for our cars we would never know, because no one ever wanted them made. I bet the first guy who wanted to force feed compessed air into his engine was thought to be crazy, but that turned out to be teh shiznit.

Well they need a list of 20 buyers and a doner car for test fitting, dyno testing, and intake temp testing. They are located in Indianopolis, I think Indy is located there too.

The cost is gonna be around $90. Currentyly they only make phenolic gaskets for Ford Probes, MX6, Preludes, and GSRs. If the intake manifold gaskets are the same on the DOHC Neon that than would help with the 20 person list.