i have been dreaming about turbo ever since i got my car. but now i'm thinking about building an all motor. Thanks to steve. I'm going to start on my motor here in about a month depending on if i can get this job at mitsubishi selling cars.
what all am i going to need to be able to spank some V-8's? I think that is why God put me on this green earth.haha. I can't stand them. and if that is even possible. i'm new to the whole all motor thing cause i've all ways been about boost. But i think i'm going to give this a shot. Thanks to everyone on this sight. You have all helped me out a lot of little petty bull shit that i have needed to know. And i hope that once again you can help me out. Thank's to all. :thumbsup

for starters, one of those indy manifolds would help out, bigger throttle body, header, underdrive pulley, and you could build a engine with high compression..the list goes on...also if you have a 97 MTX you can buy the AFX ECU

believe me i want one of those indy heads. I would give my left nut for one. but before i dive in to that i want to see what they dyno out at. I've read every post about them thats how i got to know steve so will and hes the one that has talked me in to this crazy idea that all my friends are talking shit for. Cause they know that the 420a does not do will with bolt ons. and when i say i want an all motor car I'm talkinga bout cams and shit like that. and like what is the best company that makes everything from intake, to plugs, to pistons.money is not an object as along as i can be quick enough to be able to talk shit.

The record all-motor 420A is Todd (VX100) and runs a 15.4. Certainly not enough power to spank V8's, but still a breakthrough in itself. You'll need a lot of stuff...

high compression, drag cams, afx computer, headwork to handle higher revs., header, exhaust, weight reduction, porting/polishing...

I am sure the list could go on. Lots of stuff, lots of money, and small rewards. Talk to fast420a and vx100 for some ideas to get the job done. I don't think 200 hp is out of the question.

if u wanna "spank" a v8 u r gonna need a turbo. im probably running around 150whp and it cost me a couple pennies with no turbo. wen my arm gets better i will see wat i can get with mystic and lonnie at the track.

didn't billy mack get into the low 14's? I think I saw his name on dsmtimes, I remember he posted here a while back. he was all motor.

>if u wanna "spank" a v8 u r gonna need a turbo. im probably
>running around 150whp and it cost me a couple pennies with no
>turbo.

Your statement is just not true... If you stick enough into are engines then you well have one serious car. Even with no turbo. Even ToddVX100 whos had great success, Im sure is NO where near as fast as he could be with the right price tag...

nonturboeclipse -- High compression well be your best bet... It could be damaging, but is the way I would go... Not including everything that has all ready been adressed, (and assuming you are M/T) I would also look into work on the trany, You swap out some gears and you could make one hell of a 1/4 mile.

What kind of v8's we talkin about here? For your v8 sports cars running 300+ HP, its gonna take A LOT of money to get there all motor. Is it possible? I'd say yes,but there is a limit. You can only get soo much HP from 4 cylinders, and that will not be enough to play with the big dogs. What happens when the v8's mod their cars? Fast to me, is running 12's and 13's for a street car. If you can make a 12 second all motor 420A, thats great. But i'll tell y ou this, be ready to spend BIG bucks to do it. The car will NOT be very streetable. HP per dollar, a turbo is the best answer. For 2-3 grand, you will be making the same HP and even more than an all motor with 5 grand in it. Makes you wonder why that are not that many all motor 420A's out there. It takes mucho bucks to do it. IMO, there is no replacement for forced induction. Its just too easy, and cost effective to make awsome power.

^^^^^ Exactly. Sure its possible to have a fast all motor car, but it will cost ya. And the higher HP you get with this motor, the less daily driver-like its going to be. Again, I would say 200 hp is a realistic goal for a daily driven car. Any higher than that and I think its not going to be any fun to drive around on the street.

I could be wrong though, these are just my thoughts and opinions.

if you're still wanting to go n/a, here are the mods that billy mack had to run 14.6, 13.8 w/nitrous

crane cams
crane cam gears
crower valve train
port and polished head
port and polished intake
55mm t/b
msd coil pack
accel 9mm wires
vibrant cold air intake
ported exaust manifold
vibrant type v muffler
custom exaust
zex plugs
zex nitrous kit (55 shot)
zex heater
zex press gauge
T.D tech fuel press raiser
inline fuel pump

only 2400 lbs with fiber glass hatch,fenders front and rear thanks to the vis body kit.
20 in. slicks.

high compression 2.4L motor bored to 2.5L with big cams, oversized valves, mild port&polish to the head, opened up TB, intake manifold, and exhaust tract, stripped, could probably run mid 13's with a good launch and slicks.

of course, i'm just guessing...

Really from personal experience, if you have to ask for a laundry list for all motor power then you really are in over your head for getting this done anytime soon.
If money is really no object then I would say make that baby scream, get a rebuilt balanced and blueprinted 12,000rpm 2.0L with a small overbore. Get custom spec cams with a fair amount of lift, 5 angle valve job, gasket match and port and polish head. Custom quad throttle body set with tuned intakes or make your own variable length to get some low-down torque. Aftermarket ECU so you can get everything tuned to work nicely with 13 compression. Custom high flow long tube header with high flow cat and straight through exhaust. Some lightweight racing rims(OZ's are good) with some high grip tires, get some track spacers so you can use over a 235 tire. All fiberglass or CF body(except for doors) and some lexan windows. And since your running high RPM's change your waterpump to an elctric drive and maybe the same for power steering or get rid of that all together. Keep or dump AC. At this point we'll assume you could get near 350hp and your car would weigh in at 2400lbs. You'd be kicking a lot of peoples asses with this setup, even modded V-8's, unstoppable potential, as for street driving it... You'll be shifting at 8k rpms and idleing at 2k and that lightweight flywheel wont be helping much either, not to mention the straight cut gear whine droning along the freeway.
Thats an over-exagerration but you get the point, anything is possible with money, give more specifics and you'll get a better fitting answer. Not being a bitch just setting the groundrules and keeping you from hitting space!
Brent

Well, i wasnt going to say anything, but then someone mentioned that its possible to get the car down to 2400lbs...sooooo

with that said, if i felt like giving myself a constant headache and going for all-motor, i would mimmick my friends neon setup.

He went 12.8@106 on slicks in a naturally aspirated 1st gen neon.

The car weighed ~2000lbs in race trim (~2200 w/ the leather interior installed)

obvious mods: Stock 2.4L bottom end, Stock head except cams, Quad t/b's, CNNP's race header (open), Standalone, and a good driver ;)

He revved to ~8000rpms, and evetually put a hole in two pistons. That was after MANY broken axels as well.

The car made ~200whp na...but like i said, the car weighed ~2000lbs, and he cut very quick 60''s, like 1.6-1.8's (this is why we call him Axle, b/c hes broken so many ;) )

That car is now out of commision, and he drives an SRT4 now - guess he realized that for a 4 banger, boost is the way to go :thumbsup

If Hahn was still coming out with the 3 L aluminum race block i would say get that but that doesnt seem like it is giong to be a possibility anymore!:(

thanks to eveyone. Yes i'll agree i might be over my head. I know mainly about hondas. DONT HATE Me. but thats what all my boys have. I'm just so confused right now cause where i live i have to put up with 5.0's reving up at me and i have to sink down in my tenzo seats and try not to cry cause i know that they have me. i just want to put them to shame. I read somewhere about the pt blocks? is that a good idea or soemthing along those lines. just to clear something else up i am plannin on making this car a staright race car not a daily driver cause i'm getting my dad's S-10. so i dot know what i'm doing yet. But i know i do want to dump a lot of money in to this thing. Thanks again

billy mack ran a 14.6 his timrslip is posted on dsmtuners.com. personally i dont know if i can belive it but i just want to let u all know we can also do the v6 avenger swap, seen it dont to numerous amounts of 2gnt's........i am thinking of doin it myself! but then again i also like this 2.4 swap but then again i also like motofools turbo kit for 1800 bux but then again i also like the fact that i am runing 15's with just bolt ons and some heavy wheels but then again i dont knwo what the hell i am talking about!:thumbsup

What's your background for mechanical experience? If you have to have a shop do a lot of the work then, you probably would be better off with a turbo, unless you have a lot of money, either way all motor is a more expensive way dollar for dollar in the higher hp ranges.

Me of course will be all motor for some time, I can't see me putting a turbo on any time soon. Maybe somewhere down the road after the high compression motor is built, and slap a turbo on top of that, but not in the near or forseeable future.

I really like the torque the 2.4L puts out. So hen it comes time t touch the bottom end I'll be investigating this closer and what fabrication and modifications need to be done. Because it is not a straight swap. But eventually I may have a little help with that... If you don't feel that is within your ability then go with a 2.2L stroker from Howell, it drops in the same way your old motor came out.

Any way, keys to small motor hp:
-Cams, a must, how big depends on your ability to tune, If you have the funds go with a stand alone fuel amagement and you can have control and get a better idle, trying to fool the stock ECU will only go so far. I have Crowers and love them, crane's are also good. You also want cam can gears so you can tune the cams to your set up.
-And to supply air to the motor I suggest quad TB's, I'll be digging into mine over the next months to get everything set up. (do not try this without at least an S-AFC.
-Exhaust: Do it all, header (4-1) high flow cat, and 2.5" cat-back
-High compression in a key especially when you are running bigger cams with overlap. The overlap takes some compression away which you want them to do when running high compression. I say a good streetable compression ratio is 11.5:1. Going with 10.5:1 is on the safe side and very conservative. 12.5:1 if you have big cams and control over timing, to prevent detonation you might need to pull timing here, just depends on the rest of the set up.
-A good ignition set up ihighly recommend, ignition amp, coil pack, and the ability to retard timing.
-Good machine shop!!! this is key, deck plate to bore the block, good equipment, ability to get tight tolerances and for the love of God get it balanced. Blueprinting as far as I'm concerned should be a part of any motor build up, duh check all your clearances and make sure they are what you want them at...

And now for the number 1 key to getting this set up to kill:
TUNING!!!
Know how to tune your fuel system (whichyou will have to upgrade) how to set timing, adjust your cams, to make the car run safe happy and strong. Because if you tune any highly modified car wrong, it will explode. I don't care if it's NA, Turbo or Nitrous. Do it wrong and it will hurt, your pride, your pocketbook and your car.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC