I remember reading about it a while back, did the company do away with the idea or is it still floating around? I remember a lot of people were against it.

I'm still interested...that would be badass...wasn't it supposed to run around $1500 for the block??

That would be sweet. But I have never heard of it.

I believe it was Howell that was talkin bout it. For some reason though, most people bad mouthed it and were against it. They boasted that it could possibly handle up to 50 psi and have a displacement of 3.0L. For $1500, i'd hit it :thumbsup

Yes it was Howell that posted abou tit. I don't know that Gary got the support he was looking for, I haven't heard anything about any R&D being done.

But 3.0L ALuminum block... would be sweet



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

It already exists, and has been for sale for a while now.



350 hp at 7200rpm, naturally aspirated.
600 hp, sequential twin turbo

The cost for the block (semi machined) is about $1000 and the Hemi head (my personal favorite) is about $800 bare and semi-machined also.

It's available from Mopar Performance - P5007090AB is the part number for the head, and P5007467 is the block.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/la4.html

yeah but it's talking about being for rear wheel drive trannys. Can we even use that?

I was talking about this topic, http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=28280&mesg_id=28280&listing_type=search

thedawg- are you sure it's the same one? cuz howell and afx were talking about charging like 2400 for just the bare block which is why everybody was against it. and that site says it's for a v8 rwd transmission.

I checked for that parts number and the price it shows is $2750 not 1000.

sounds like that focus V8/RWD conversions :P

That ain't a drop in replacement ;)

It's for purpose built race cars, as in... the ones with tubular chassis, etc. You wanna build a tube chassis eclipse, with 420a-ish aluminum block, there's your motor. Otherwise, it's just good engineering fun.

Seriously, I think the Honda phenomonon has affected peoples' heads. "Motor Swap" is not the legendary mythical path to all amount of engine horsepoweriness.

Besides, you guys aren't wussing out on building a RWD 2gnt are you? Cause the 4g63 guys have done it several times }(

it'd be awesome to have. i think they should make it. it might not be a mass product but maybe made to order. then all of you NA guys could compete in that and the turbo guys can compete with any other car they want to! think of the possibilities!!

The dawg said "horsepoweriness." I think that's a good word. I want my car to have much horsepoweriness. :thumbsup

The LA-4 isn't 420a based, it is based on a V8 that has been cut in half. It is also a pushrod design. I would rather see an SRT-4 block and crank modified to work with the 2GNT PCM. Maybe have a combined cam/crank sensor that sits on the camshaft. But regardless, this motor will not bolt to an NVG-T350, or even any FWD transmission that I have ever seen.
Just not worth it.
-=B-=

Exactly. What is being asked about was going to be a 420A based 3.0L drop in and bolt up replacement aluminum block.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

exactly! with cross bolted race design that could hold up to 5000hp and 50 or 60+ psi! it would definately be worth the cash if you were going to be bulding the rest of the motor. and reduce some of the weight and weight ratio.

>350 hp at 7200rpm, naturally aspirated.
600 hp, sequential twin turbo<

Is this really that impressive...I understand the 350 HP N/A, but I have a video clip of a guy going 608 HP on a 2.0L GST motor. I thought I remembered hearing something about 1000+ HP potential...

>>350 hp at 7200rpm, naturally aspirated.
>600 hp, sequential twin turbo<
>
>Is this really that impressive...I understand the 350 HP N/A,
>but I have a video clip of a guy going 608 HP on a 2.0L GST
>motor. I thought I remembered hearing something about 1000+
>HP potential...


your right. Howell said it would be easy to make a 1500hp DSM, can you imagine that? it would be worth the cash to see one of those!

What happened to this?

Can anyone dig up the old post from the archives (I notice in the search function, searching through the archives isn't an option anymore)..

And why isn't this in the performance section?..
You might have gotten more responses..

~Tacoman

I gave the link to the old post a few posts up there, but it's this

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=28280&mesg_id=28280&listing_type=search

i believe Gary was wanting to see the interest on it and if he could get the funds for the production of it. don't know if he ever decided to make it or not. i've even tried to email and ask him but no definite response. would definately be a good thing.}(

yeah, maybe they should try another survey again, I'm pretty sure more people would opt for it, it could put us on par with the srt-4, 350z, and new evo guys.

yeah i agree. i think it would be a product for us. but some people can't cope with the price of it. they should think about the benefits it would have though. it'll have a LOT of them too}( just think of all the power! i get excited just thinking about it!

For me..

I'd give $1500 for a 3.0L full built bottom end, but I doubt he will sell it at that price..

But at most, for me, would be $2000 for a full built bottom end..

~Tacoman

only 1500? considering the 2.2l stroker is 2600 fully built without core, you're kind of lowballing it. I mean, howell could simply replace the 2.2 l stroker with the 3.0l 420a. I mean they offered the 3.0l for 2400 and it's would've been way better than the 2.2 stroker, so 2600 for a 3.0l plus bottom end kit would be perfect. it'd probably do better than the 2.2l stroker.

yeah, it'd be more than what you say. i think 3500 would cover everything though, and have a little left over. thats the 3.0 + internals. and it would be worth every penny! Dino actually talks to him more and i'm sure he probably knows more about it if anything will come of it that is.

If we do get a 3.0L, we won't be running with Hondas, and Cavs any more..

Because of the cc class, we would probably be running with Supras, and 300ZXs.. right?..

Who thinks our 4 cylinder FWD with 3.0L can beat a 6 cylinder TT RWD?

But I might still get one.. if the price is right ;-)..

~Tacoman

i know we could. true we might need slicks, LSD, etc but hey, they lose traction too :) and we'd definately beat them from a roll! how many supras have you seen that can handle 50-60+PSI? exactly and i haven't seen one that has 1500hp either. although close:) also, we would be a LOT lighter with the aluminum and you could get a few CF pieces...mmmm....power

the lighter engine would make for more loss of traction too...

So would the enormous amounts of torque offered by a race tuned long stroke 3.0L with FWD and an open differential... Throw some street tyres on, and we have a winner...
...of the burnout contest!
-=B-=

yeah yeah yeah, i know, traction won't be so good, but we could work on that once we have to worry about getting traction in 4th..hehe

yeah there will be traction issues, but that doesn't make the block any less valuable, it's basically a stage 2 turbo system equivelant, and we could approach the traction problems kinda like the turbo guys do, it might not be exactly the same cause of the added torque but the basics are there.

>yeah there will be traction issues, but that doesn't make the
>block any less valuable, it's basically a stage 2 turbo system
>equivelant, and we could approach the traction problems kinda
>like the turbo guys do, it might not be exactly the same cause
>of the added torque but the basics are there.

thank you :-)
i mean thats like saying , well i might not be able to get traction so why put this part on my car?

Ok lets see.... What turbo will be pushing 50-60 psi? And is this turbo going to put out a huge 1500 hp? Thats a massive turbo. Just because the engine can handle it doesnt mean it will automatically put it out. I don't think traction would be much of a problem, since you would probabaly be going 60 before the turbo spooled up. But it definately would be sweet. I'd get one.

howell and afx were saying the block can handle upwards of 50-60 psi, to give an idea of how strong it is, not because it's supposed to be used with a turbo for the sole purpose of getting 1500hp, it doesn't even have to be used with a turbo, with just the increase in liters we could expect probably the same increase as from putting a stage 2 turbo system on your car. and imagine putting a stage 1 turbo on top of that, look at gains of 200+hp. to lay it out straight.

1. it makes it easier to gain more hp with smaller mods.

2. it's lighter so it takes less hp to make the car quicker(or you can just keep your passenger seat. :thumbsup )

3. just because it can handle 1500hp doesn't mean you try to get it to, I mean just bolting in the new block might be the only mod you need to put down 200+hp to the wheels.

4. it's not necessarily an engine swap, since it's still a 420a, it's more like a stroker block but better.

5. when considering pricing, it's not that expensive for what you get, a 3.0l block with stage 1 is like a stage 3 equivelant, probably more with an intercooler and complementary fuel upgrades, considering that a hahn stage 3 is almost $6000, you're getting the same output with less changes, in the old post afx also said that the block can be used with stock internals so you can run a stage 1 without going to forged internals and be making the same power as stage 3+ guys.

6. it gives the all motor people something to run with besides the usual i/e/h.

7. the new neon that everybody got all riled up about is the mexican 420a(from what I've gathered), except it's a 2.4l turbo, if the specs from the srt are that good with basically a 2.4l 420a turbo, what can we expect from a 3.0l 420a turbo?

8. traction- how do the stage 4+ guys get traction? there are drivetrain modifications to get more traction, how does the hahn racecraft eclipse get traction? seriously, traction is a minor setback amidst the great gain. at 400+ hp the hahn eclipse still has enough traction to run 11's. so logically, you could get at least 400hp before traction becomes a really serious issue. and exactly how many people on here are making 400hp?

>3. just because it can handle 1500hp doesn't mean you try to
>get it to,


i'd try}( and i would achieve with that thing!:7

This might get you there




95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

mmmmmm......(droools).......mmmmmmmmmm agghhhhhhhhhh
i think that would bring the weight back up to the original or more from the weight loss of the aluminum block LOL!}(}( }( }( }( }(

OK..from what the list you made from ^^^.
Is the engine available anywhere? I mean we should have another vote. I will vote for yes!
Since I am adding a stage II turbo. And I have to rebuild anyway. Why not just go for the 3L engine.
Is it available anywhere online so we can buy it?

BTW, if I want to rebuild an engine, but don't want too much down time. I will go get an extra engine right. But do I have to get the whole engine?
Also, if I am getting an engine, is it matter that how much mileage was on the engine? and is it matter the condition of the engine?
THanks guys... I konw this questions is kinda out of the topic...but just at the same time asking a question!
But I really want to get that 3L engine man... if you tell me where I can buy it... I WILL GET IT!
Gil.

Oh..by the way.... if we really put that 3L engine in our car.... you guys think we can pass the emission test?? lol.
Gil.:thumbsup

someone above said something about the ease of getting the engine up to 1500 hp on a turbo... what about the Buick Grand National? i know it's a v6 with a turbo, but properly done it can go well over 1100 hp

has anybody contacted howell/afx manufacturing about this and gotten a response? anybody know if they're considering it again? I tried contacting afx_manufacturing but I haven't recieved a response, hell I might just decide to take this idea to an engine shop and see what I can do about getting a custom one made myself, but it'd be better if the original guys with the idea did it cause they would know more about it's design. or someone could just hit me up with the design specs if they got them? anybody know? I'm thinking a 2.4 stroked and bored to 2.7(I heard skrilla had this done so it should be possible) with a stroker crankshaft like the one in the 2.2l, made out of aluminum of course with the other special things that they advertised. anybody got more ideas on the design?

i remember on the howell site a while back. in the message boards, they had a list of people, they needed 10 people to dish out 2400 and they had like 6 at the time... i'm gonna go search the forums. meanwhile, someone make a poll for people who would definately do it and have the money now. or people that could do it in the next month, 2 months etc or people who want to see it first then will decide. late.

umm...

That $2400 would get you an engine..

But.. what about hte oil pump.. or the cooling pump.. custom timing belt, accessory brackets, crank pulley.. etc etc etc..

$5G's might get you a running engine.. this is a race block not something that's gonna be a daily driver type ordeal..

People are having a hard time swapping a 2.4L in.. which really isn't that bad..

Now your talking a raceblock, dry sump oiling system.. possibly electric driven water pump.... things a lot of people here would have a tough time with.. i don't doubt that some of you could possibly do it.. but 95% of the rest of the people don't have the means nor the bankroll..

I'm in that 95% part.. Sure given enough time i'd probably be able to make it work.. but it's cost prohibitive and really.. you can bore stroke a 2.4L to 2.7.. so why bother.. .3L isn't gonna make that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

1500hp is about the max you'd see out of that motor.. running methanol.. and a big turbo and a huge nos boost.

I think peoples money is better spent on the 2.2L stroker or a 2.4L swap..

-- WheatKing

are you sure about all that custom stuff? they said it would pretty much be a drop in and bolt up replacement and could run with the stock stuff alone? they said you could choose a regular 2.0, so I'm thinking they meant they were race designed, but can also be used as just a regular replacement block. I was thinking about the 2.4 swap, but swapping in the proposed 3.0l was supposed to be easier. you can bore and stroke the 2.4 to 2.7 right? could you also add a stroker crankshaft like in howell's 2.2 to increase that to 3.0?

nope. gary was talking about 2400 (or so) for the block itself. but they would design all of the other parts that you could buy. and they would make it to where it wouldn't be so complicated in installing it. and i believe that most of the parts came with the block. so it would just be a little more complicated than doing a regular block swap. i mean what would be the point of making a part that comes with all of that frustration? gary would know better than to design something like that.