OK, I guess there are a few different choices out there for us NT peoples. I am wondering what the difference is in performace and reliability and price for each of them.

First, the 2.4 swap... are there turbo kits out there for this engine yet? As far as higher performace ones. Also, wouldn't you need to be adding forged internals to hold a high amount of boost?

Second, the 2.2 from Howell... Is this essentially the stock block bored and stroked? I would imagine so with the 2.2. You can specify your compression, but HRC recommends their 8.1:1 pistons for their Stage III+ kits.

Third, rebuilding your stock block with JE pistons and Crower Rods to make way for an HRC Stage V... If you can afford the cost and can be without your car for a week so you can bring your block down to the local machine shop.

OK, I think that about covers it. I'd really like to see some good answers so perhaps we could stick this post up in the "Things We've Seen Before"

Thanks!

This is exactly what many of us (me too) are considering right now. All of the available turbo kits can be made to work with any engine. They all use the same head for our application. All use essentially the same bore, so the difference is primarily in the stroke. Here are my thoughts:

2.4l
Very little information on how exactly to do this for our car. We have a couple people here that are in the process of doing it now. Some parts will have to be fabricated/modified, but we don't have exact schematics of what has to be done. No install kits are available for us yet either. You will have to perform the build-up yourself or find a shop. But the extra 0.4l of displacement will show gains in HP, torque, and turbo spool-up. This could really help AT cars get off the line and offset the losses from lowering compression (on a turbo car). STR-4 internallys are ghetto-cheap and should hold respectable power. Aftermarket internals are available for those who want big power.

2.2l
You can buy it as a blue-printed/balanced short block. With some clean-up work, it should be ready to install (don't have to find a machine shop). It should drop right in without any modifications or fabrication. No history on how well these work out. Who has one? But the extra 0.2l of displacement will show gains in HP, torque, and turbo spool-up. This could really AT cars get off the line and offset the losses from lowering compression (on a turbo car). Won't have the same gains as a 2.4l, but every bit helps. Price is somewhat prohibative and you have only one place to buy them.

2.0l
You can buy blue-printed/balanced short blocks or build your own. Since you have a variety of sources for the parts, you can get deals on parts to build your own. If you lower compression for turbo use, your turbo will spool slower and have less power off boost. This could suck on a AT car as we have enough trouble getting moving at stock compression. But is the loss enough to offset the low price and availabilty? I don't know.

Right now, I am waiting for word on how well the 2.4l install works. I can't afford alot of downtime, so simplicity is key. Right now the 2.2l looks good as it is nearly ready to install and I don't have to fool with finding a reputable shop to machine it. I'm thinking that a 2.2l with near stock compression would be a nice low boost daily driver. I'm AT with turbo, so I need some help spooling up and getting moving. The price is steep though. I really don't think I will go with a 2.0l, but they are pretty affordable.

So there's my 0.02


Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

thats were u use nos or another kit to give u the grunt to get off the line untill ur turbo spools up ......but i like the ideal of the 2.2 get a good head package match ur cams(turbo , nos ,or both or na) juss match all ur parts and u'll fly low

2.4l is the way to go.. i will be doing it, adn its not much more expensive than builing up a 2.0 and should be cheaper than the 2.2 depending on what you get and how you do it.

mmm displacement :-)

No replacement for displacement said the domestic man...

Once the1Bill is done with his swap, there should be more information if he does a sick write-up. I'd go with the 2.4.

Once i move into a place with a garage, i'm gonna start building me a 2.4L block. forged internals and all, so that once my car is paid off, i can swap the new block in, and go to town... BWAHAHA

Imagine a :
2.4L 420A 10.5:1 Compression,forged rods & pistons, s25G Turbo or big ol t3/t4 , and what not... would be mo betta. BWAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

MMM... boost good.
EDFDC OWNZ

Will Werk for Mods

1995 RS

Current Mods:
Cracked Front Bumper
K&N Intake
Flowmaster Muffler
Platinum +4 Plugs
MSD SuperConductor Wires
and one heavy Right Foot!!!!

**Badgers??? We don't need no stinkin' badgers!!!**

**No Shirt, No Shoes, No Dice!**

Actually, the 2.4 should be cheaper to build then anything with the 2.0. The 2.4 shares not only the bore of the Turbo 2 Mopar motor, but also the rod length. For those who don't want 7.8:1, you can use a set of Weisco pistons, and Turbo 2 rods. They are cast, but very strong. Easy enough to have them re-bushed for a full floating pin. As much as I hate my car for not yet being done, I can't wait to see what the 2.4 does.
-=B-=

Yo go The1Bill :thumbsup

Oh, Corbin can we get what you said to be posted in the "Things we've seen Before" section?

*Bump*

Yes please throw this in the "Thing's We've Seen Before"

Thanks :)

I'll make a note to add it to "seen before" later. I hope that we get some more opinions though. I am really torn on what to do.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

so no one has really converted yet to 2.4 darn!!!

who ever is doing it keep updated it will be nice to know more about it. I would not mind having 2.4 stroker :) boosting 10 psi daily drivers.


While in this topic will the 2.4 block with stock internals hold more boost than 2.0 stock internals or the same amount of boost.

All depends on compression ratio, I don't know if the pistons and rods are any better than the 2.0 stock internals. I'd say unless you are building a race car, contact that dude in Michigan and get the stock Neon SRT-4 internals and maybe shave the head a little to gain a bit of compression, something comfortable like 8.8 or 9:1. Once you've done that I can see running 15psi of boost no problem and you've got a nasty street car, get a good ignition retard in an MSD or Crane, race gas, and you can run over 20psi at the track no trouble. Looking at low 13's, high 12's then huh?

Corbin, do the build-up the way that makes the most sense. Your an engineer man, a little bit of fabrication wouldn't hurt at all and the 2.4 is supposedly a little cheaper to build according to The1Bill so I'd say do it that way. Maybe swap in a 5-speed while your at it :thumbsup

I would not be surpised if you can boost 20psi on daily driving with the SRT-4 internals. They are 8.6 right, I would not mind 20 psi hehehe on a 2.4.


hey can this be stroked even more to like a 2.6??

Does anyone make pistions .20 bored for this engine that will be nice

>
>hey can this be stroked even more to like a 2.6??
>
>Does anyone make pistions .20 bored for this engine that
>will be nice

I've heard of 2.4L's stroked to 2.7L

screw the 2.4L though.. i might go for a pushrod 4cyl :)

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/la4.html

-- WheatKing

Yes u can bore it to 2.6 3 people have done it i think balckadog has his car at it scott mohler i think?

the srt4 internals are good for the price but they are cast remember i opted to go for the stronger old skool chrusler 2.2(t2) rods that hold about 500hp or so in the 2.2 engines, with the weisco 10.5:1 pistons forged with rings for 425$ from b stockum.com he also has t2 rod kits availabe too for 300$ they are rebushed (upper half to accomodate the full floating pin ) shot peened polished and balanced

he has clevites for them in stock, eagle had rods out for the 2.4 now, he can machine them to run the cl77 rod bearings if u choose on the eagles,

he has weiscos in 8.6:1 10.5:1 and 12.5:1

three is a arp head bolt kit and main stud kit out, couple tensioner upgrades, there is a moroso oil pan being designed as we speak to make this swap easier (can be done with stock minimal mods)

the weisco pistons in 10.5:1 and 8.6:1 are non-interferance design and are setup to accomodate os valves, he can make u any compression u want for extra 50$ in std bore sizes, .020 .040 etc..

check out his products at bstockum.com hes got some awesome write up on their too..

im freaking drooling over here... i so cant wait to get my 2.4 and build it up and swap it in.. it will be a mean n/a beast when i get done with it..

...I have and I can't help but guess that there will be at least 2 others eminently, including "Night Racing God". I've been lurking lately and can't help but shed some light. Babyeclipse asked me to check out the 2.4L progress. I've read about several people thinking they can grab a 2.4L dropping it and calling it a day. There is more involved. I'm working with 3 members and their engines. The swap includes the 2.4L block and the Talon\Eclipse NT cylinder head along with a fuel controller (either the HKS AFR or Apex-i SAFC). As usual Corbin hit the nail on the head. With a 2.4L rebuilt and some assembly you will get >25% more engine and roughly 50 extra ponies NA (AKA 190HP). The crank has a much bigger swing and the rods are brittle even more so than on the 2L because it's rev nature is very low. That is the way it is with long stroke engines. My block has been built since before I dropped it into my car. Like Corbin said the factory 2.4L parts are dirt cheap. Those internals along with our cylinder head would produce an engine with about 157HP and support of up to 525HP.

I'll continue to be gone until I can resolve several things (and the cops didn't help either) so I won't be checking back for questions.

Good luck and happy hunting

I know this has been answered a thousand and one times..
But is there a list of what you need?..
So far I have found out this..

You need..

2.4L bottom end
Belt Tensioner
Motor Mounts
A/C bracket ??

We can use the stock tranny right?

Thanks

~Tacoman

Holy crap.

Welcome back. All other things aside, i hope you aren't gone for good.

the 2.4 can go 140 over to emit a 2.6 litre (thats without stroking teh crank which crower hasa kit for now i guess (3900$OUCH!)

heres the link to the mut himself with all motor 420a's(clayblack dog is the man for all motor and 420a stuff) http://www.neons.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=64119

the parts needed for 2.4 are roughly your 2gnt head, 2.4 short block, 2.4 timing belt, (all the 2.4 timing components assuming u bought a complete motor not missing any parts under the timing cover) u need to make some custom brackets for the a/c and p/s along with lower raditator pipe and passenger side engine mount,

swap injectors and plug wires, remove balance shafts tap and plug oil hole or weld it up... with the cast aluminum oil pan need to dremol away some of it to clear cross member the cam magnet needs to be moved 180degrees u need to get more fuel in there s-afc, new downpipe or your stock one lengthened 2-6" to go around the larger oil pan...

those are the needs for a stock drop in i can post for info on the upgrade available if needed ive done it alot of times so far i get tired of typing it all hehe,

u have 3 rod choices, stock, t2(2.2 chrysler rods from bstockum.com) the srt4 internals pistons u can use the mahle(t2) the srt4 or the weisco /je pistons eagle rods are availabe too...

there are 3-4 tensioners setups the best is the blackdog solid tensioner with 95-96 style oil pump, this setup is good for big cams, milled heads, and strong valves spring setups

the other option is the self adjsuting hydralic tensioner setup like we have stock...

2.0 cam gears are what we will use, the stock tranny bolts right up, the only differences are the block is basically 1" taller pistons need to be turned around in the engine because we are going to put air/fuel in the oppsosite direction and valves i guess are slightly off in how far they come down intake to exhaust,

my swap is taking a long time because i am rebuilding mine from the ground up new rods pistons all new pumps and bearings all throught the motor along witha lsd install and all so that is why mine is on hold (waiting for internals) ill be running t2 rods cost me 180$ when i got them rebush cost is 80$ (the wrist pin sizing) t2 vers full floating pin(aftermarket weisco and je) are different so the t2 rods need to be down sized, and the 10.5:1 weisco pistons setup for os valves at 425$ a set with rings, this setup should hold some where about 25-30psi steadily(i wont run that all the run thats for sure) if u hit forum dodge the gaskets and such are super cheap for this compared to stock ones,

if anything else i can help best i can im not done yet cause of parts not here so dont expect the world =P

hope this helps...

bump lets keep this where people can read it maybe things weve seen before section???

but increasing displacement will alter the characteristics of the engine as well. How much does each engine weigh? How will powerband be like? How will the torque and HP be in relation to each other? I like a well balanced car and I believe the 2.0 is the most desirable size 4 cylinder now. We're not that heavy but the torque may help a bit but you'll probably sacrifice horsepower and have more torque. It depends on how you want it to act but I'd stick with 2.0 or maybe 2.2 . I don't think the 2.4's can rev as high also because the stroke is longer or something and I don't think the valvetrain is as good either. It' up to you with what you want but I'd rather get the most of what I got already.

The motor weighs 42 lbs more, which gets trimmed to 28 lbs when the balance shafts are removed. Not a huge difference in the weight. As for the valvetrain, we are using the 2GNT head, which means the same flow as the 2.0, as well as the same valvetrain. Going from a 2.0 to a 2.4 does increase torque, but the horsepower is also increased. The 101.3MM stroke of the 2.4 isn't too much to rev to 7800RPM with a balanced bottom end and cams to allow enough airflow to make that high of a rev worthwhile. I don't see any downsides to the 2.4 except for the hassle of installing it.
-=B-=

yea the 2.4 swap uses our head that means it can rev to whatever we can, and with upgrade pt rockers and lash adjusters the neon guys hav these motors turning 10krpm in n/a form it gives u more low end torque more peak hp, for like 28lbs? cmon what else is there to desire othere then its cheaper to rebuild for high hp then a 2.0?

has more oil capacity(after bs removal) the only bad part about it is u have to swap it in and make a mount and some brackets not everyone can do it but it shall be worth it in the end i presume...

whats the average price of one of these 2.4 conversions considering labor,

Dwayne H
A.K.A D-low
"PAID THE COST TO BE THE BOSS"

Fully built motor,Hrc stage 3, 19 inch rollers, Big Brakes, Targa top conversion, custom hood,supra taillights, trd wing with cf, kaminari widebody kit, air ride, autometer guages and all of Apexi Sacf, avc-r, rev/speed meter. interior fully glassed, tenzo r seats, pics soon to come!

well ill list what im doing my route is definatly not the cheapest route but here what im doing,

got my block for 157$
250$ in rods bought rebushed etc...(turbo 2 rods)
425$ for pistons forged weiscos 10.5:1
25$ clevite rod bearings

230$ for fidanza cam gears (u can flip stock ones i want the adjustability)

380$ in parts from forum dodge, water pump, tensioners gaskets bearings etc.,,,

105$ for oil pump through dodge,

remove balance shaft cost 3$ for a bolt to fill oil hole,

350$ in machine work

100$ in misc parts some metal for brackets fluids rtv, loctite etc...
my head is getting ported also phantom grip install in brackets ceramic cluch are the rest of things getting thrown into the mix while tis apart not to mention energy suspension bushing kit...



cheapest route grab a 2.4 short block for under 500$ grab the srt4 pistons rods for under 300$ for both hopefully block is all together replace timing belt and tensioner50$ 84$ upper end gasket kit 35$ lower end gasket kit, bolt for bs removal maybe 100$ in fabricating costs for the brackets

bolt in

you have a personal message

Dwayne H
A.K.A D-low
"PAID THE COST TO BE THE BOSS"

Fully built motor,Hrc stage 3, 19 inch rollers, Big Brakes, Targa top conversion, custom hood,supra taillights, trd wing with cf, kaminari widebody kit, air ride, autometer guages and all of Apexi Sacf, avc-r, rev/speed meter. interior fully glassed, tenzo r seats, pics soon to come!