just wondering what all i would need extra if I went all motor and got the howell 2.0L block shiped to me with the 12.5 comp JE pistons... would I need anything else because of that High Compression? please let me know thanX

high octane gas and probably a timing retarding device (like the MSD ignitions and what not). I haven't really seen too much discussion around here on what supporting mods are needed for high compression N/A motors.

octane booster =P, you might want somethign that'll raise your revlimiter and a stronger top end, like those PT cruiser lash adjusters (think that's what they're called), so you can take advantage of the HP. Maybe cams and adjustable cam pulleys. Hehe NA tuning is like the opposite of turbo tuning, haha unless you wanna pay for all the NA tuning for the turbo woohoo!!!

You would want to have an ignition system with a timing retard option incase you have to retard some on pump gas. You will have to run 92 or 93 octane all the time and I would suggest 30 lb injectors instead of stock 24's. You will also need all the bolt on's to have the proper amount of airflow in and out of the engine to take full advantage of this comp. ratio.


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I think that would be a waste of money. A bunch of work and a lot of cash to get the car to even run for a weenie 8% increase over stock, yea it adds up but still. You want to spend a lot of money on power, at least turbocharge it. Or save the cash.

>I think that would be a waste of money. A bunch of work and
>a lot of cash to get the car to even run for a weenie 8%
>increase over stock, yea it adds up but still. You want to
>spend a lot of money on power, at least turbocharge it. Or
>save the cash.

he's asking what's needed, not a speech on how it's better to do something else. and also it yield's much higher gains then that with proper supporting mods. mainly 'drag' style cams (which I forgot to mention) and the bolt ons mentioned above..

so you think i should just just get the top kit from howell as well then? What grind of cams should i get with that.....? you still hink I can use pump gas? I use 93 oct now anyways but would 93 be enough? what about a fuel pump and injectors , what size exhaust would i need? would it be better to get the 10.5 comp pistons? would this still be daily driver? The AFX ECU would that be a must have for this? also one more question..... would it be better to switch to the neon non-modular clutch or keep my mine.... how hard is it to switch to that?
ThanX

I am looking at getting 12.5:1 comp. pistons too except I'm going to get the 2.2 instead.

>so you think i should just just get the top kit from howell
>as well then? What grind of cams should i get with
>that.....? you still hink I can use pump gas? I use 93 oct
>now anyways but would 93 be enough? what about a fuel pump
>and injectors , what size exhaust would i need? would it be
>better to get the 10.5 comp pistons? would this still be
>daily driver? The AFX ECU would that be a must have for
>this? also one more question..... would it be better to
>switch to the neon non-modular clutch or keep my mine....
>how hard is it to switch to that?
> ThanX

Yes get the Howell kit with the High Comp. Cams, either for n/a or nitrous they list them. You can use pump gas if you run an ignition like MSD or Crane(from what I understand the Crane is better on all-motor because with the MSD you can't control below 4500rpm or something similar to that, I'm sure someone will clear that up) like suggested above to retard the timing. You can run 93 with enough timing retard. Fuel Pump and injectors would most likely need to be replaced. You should be fine with a 2.25" exhaust unless you start to push over 250 or so. The 10.5:1 pistons would just need less timing retard than the 12.5:1 would, so yes I guess you could call it more streetable, although I am planning on making mine streetable too with the 12.5:1 pistons. Not too sure on the AFX ECU because I belive it advances the timing to make it's gains, so I don't think it would be a good idea. As for the clutch, I would think the modular would hold up better because it's riveted together. Not sure though.

By no means am I an expert, just trying to help a fellow N/A guy out cause we're few and far between. :P


-Nate



________________
-98 Avenger I4 5spd
-ALL MOTOR build up on the way
-Mods: AEM blue front Big Brake Kit, AEM blue CAI, Bosal Header

Next Mods:
Bored Throttle Body, Ported Intake Manifold, UDP

well whats the HP diff in the 10.5 ver the 12.5? and how much HP would you estimate with the 12.5 bottom end kit and getting the top end kit from howell as well?

12.5:1 you'll want to retard a bit, get an afc and control your fuel to air ratio, nice a/f guage you'll want bigger injctors, better fuel pump, crane 22's or bigger cams, pt lash adjusters black dog rockers and crane valve springs, (these aren't nessisary atleast for all the mods but if your going all motor might as well do it right..)

the modular clutch is way better! it is larger, meaning more life better clamp load, and u can replace just the disk and not a 500$ clutch so if u smokethe clutch it'll cost u 150$ instead of 500$
if u got teh cash geta fidanza flywheel less weight faster rev,

get a udp, nice greddy header no cat and 2.5 catback if ure gonna get alot of mods if u aren't gonn ahve that many mods stay 2.25

the mds or crane would be very nice, extensive port job, bigger throttle body port match intake, setup cold air intake, or some ram air style through the front bumper cowls and ud be running pretty nice, remember u can add xylene(sp?) to add octane which i believe is also known as paint thinner,

and with forged pistons add a zex nitrius kit and your on your way baby....



or another option is do the 2.4 swap like im doing from a stratus and go all motor on that would be a bit faster

you mean the non modular (neoN clutch) right? we have a modular?... or am i wrong? how hard is it to switch to that neon clutch? were would i get the crane 22's and would all of this work be daily driver?

If your want to run on pump gas, a ll.6 to 1 compression is better.
To get the 11.6, you need the 10.5 pistons and then shave the head a little. With the motor and no mods, it would be:

140 * 1.04 * 1.04 = 151.42 for the 11.6 compression

151.42 * 1.04= 157.48 for the 12.6 pistons

neon clutch is bolt on howell automotive has the cams in stock

You can use AFX or stock ECU, but I would use either without the ability to retard timing. Neon guys at 12.5:1 with AFX ECU pull about 8 degrees of timing, if memory serves.

You can do tricks like ceramic coating your head/valves and pistons to keep detonation down and reduce hot spots from forming.

I recommend 2.5" exhaust. You'll need some cams with nice overlap to take advantage of the high compression. Both Crane and Crower makes cams you can choose from.

Needed: Ignition Amp w/ timing retard! S-AFC would be a very good idea to get the fuel in line.
Good intake set up, good exhaust set up. Doesn't have to be fully ported & polished, but that would help. I highly recommend using cams.

Una salus victus.
He will triumph, who knows when to fight, and when not to fight. - Sun Tzu

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, P&P Intake Manifold, Crower Stage 2 Cams, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines, AFX 55mm TB (re-installed once exhaust is done, intake was outflowing exhaust)

so what size cams have good overlap? and how much would it cost to have all that stuff ceramic coated?