Hey, I got money and just decided to go with bolt ons cus im not gonna get all crazy about my car and get serious with the turbo and everything else with it. So my question was what is everything I can get w/o goin turbo? And any estimations at how much hp i can get w/o turbo? thanks guys

well, just to let you know without going turbo, you will be spending a lot more and getting a lot less(hp). You say you dont want to get serious with a turbo....turbos arent rocket science (errrr, well maybe they are) but getting a turbo doesnt really involve any more engine work that getting other bolt ons.

CIA
Bored TB
Headers
Exhaust
UDP


Theres just some bolts on for you.

Well, I would have to agree with that. Turbo well give you the best HP gain vs dollar. but, since you are interested in other ways, and yes there are other ways then turbo, then heres what I would do. Start simple, exhaust, header, and intake. This well add some gain, you'll be looking at around 10-20 HP. you'll gain more torque then anything. Then look at cam gears. They well run you around $250 but are a great way to find additional power out of your engine. Then its time to go bigger. I hate saying it, but nitrous, I myself well be getting a nitrous system in my car this winter to reduce turbo lag. But, if you are looking at other options then turbo, until supercharges come out, nitrous is the only other way to go for forced induction. For around 500 dollars you can go with a small 50 shot which at this point you would be looking at 160 hp to the wheels... Which is the same as the GS-T. but your torque would be around a nice 165lbs. Yet, if you are looking at wanting to go higher then that, you can even go to a 75 shot. (the nitrous injectors would be the only thing needed to change for bigger shot and they arent that expensive.) Or my suggestion would be change pistons, rods and rings. (which well gain around 15HP) So you can safely use bigger nitrous injectors. Then go with a 150 shot to you engine. This final result would be around 250HP to the wheels. (which is around the same as a stage 2 turbo would give you) So, yes theres other ways of adding HP to the 420a enigne. Explore your options carfully.

>Well, I would have to agree with that. Turbo well give you the best >HP gain vs dollar. but, since you are interested in other ways, and >yes there are other ways then turbo, then heres what I would do. >Start simple, exhaust, header, and intake. This well add some gain, >you'll be looking at around 10-20 HP. you'll gain more torque then >anything. Then look at cam gears. They well run you around $250 but >are a great way to find additional power out of your engine. Then >its time to go bigger. I hate saying it, but nitrous, I myself well >be getting a nitrous system in my car this winter to reduce turbo >lag. But, if you are looking at other options then turbo, until >supercharges come out, nitrous is the only other way to go for >forced induction. For around 500 dollars you can go with a small 50 >shot which at this point you would be looking at 160 hp to the >wheels... Which is the same as the GS-T. but your torque would be >around a nice 165lbs. Yet, if you are looking at wanting to go >higher then that, you can even go to a 75 shot. (the nitrous >injectors would be the only thing needed to change for bigger shot >and they arent that expensive.) Or my suggestion would be change >pistons, rods and rings. (which well gain around 15HP) So you can >safely use bigger nitrous injectors. Then go with a 150 shot to you >engine. This final result would be around 250HP to the wheels. which >is around the same as a stage 2 turbo would give you) So, yes theres >other ways of adding HP to the 420a enigne. Explore your options >carfully.

165 horsepower gst? naw man I don't think so maybe with a boost leak or something, those things are 210 stock, so maybe 185 to the wheels at the least. to with other options, go cold air intake, exhaust, header, afx underdrive pulley,50+mm overbored throttle body. after that I would seriously go with a safc to lean down some and get some more power. somebody did this on an normally aspirated 420a with some mods and picked up like 8 or something horsepower. after that go with some cam gears but don't know much about the kind of power gain you get from these but I don't think its like in other cars. If you still want more, port and polish your intake runners, some say it felt great all around. right now you might be around 140-150 to the wheels maybe, after that, you start to get real serious, going into the engine, but if you don't want to go turbo, whats the point.

Sorry to burst your bubble but Ive tested mine on a dyno and recieved a max 169 HP (95 eclipse GST -stock) and my friend with a 96 GST got a 168 HP. If you still want more cause you may or may not believe me, goto: http://www.importtuner.com/tech/0209it_ppeclipse/index.html they have tested a 99 GST and still only hit 165 HP. Sorry bud... The key thing is, the 210 HP figure is factory rated. Its alittle higher then it actually should be. If you have anyone who has tested there stock GS-t on dyno and has recieved something like you say at 185, please give me there name, cause they are doing somthing right. Also I have a 96 RS All motor, I took a talon TSI slightly modded. Ive only put 2500 dollars into my engine at this point, these 420a engines are full of power, the secret is finding it.

well sounds like you got more proof than me. the other day I beat a 96 gst. He took off before me and I caught up and passed him by like a car and a half. I knew the guy and he had a boost leak on the stock mesh elbow that road race engineering uses to connect their upper intercooler pipes. anyways he was only boosting like 5psi on the stock turbo. for me to spank him like that, and going by 210 crank hp rating, to me he was losing about 60 hp on that boost leak. im still going to find out some more about this. this is the first I've heard of only 168 stock to the wheels. do you have an automatic?

210 HP is engine HP, not wheel HP. Figure around 15% drive train loss from manual cars, and upwards of 25% for automatic cars. Back to the question.

Here is what you can do for an all motor build. An underdrive crank pulley, usually will get you around 10 HP. A CAI, or short ram, a few HP there. Adjustable cam gears, but you need to dyno tune them for max HP, most see around 7 HP. A 2.5" cat back. You will gain a little top end. A few HP from headers, if you want to spend that much for that little HP. Bored Throttle body, good for a few HP. Port and polish the intake mani, and the cylinder head, some good gains there. New pistons and rods wont give you and more HP, maybe about 10 HP if you go higher compression. Then you have the stroker kit, which makes for more engine displacement, and more HP. That includes replacing the internals. Thats about all you can do for N/A HP. There may be a few i missed.

LunarEclipse -- All three were 5 speed. In most cases your estimates would be right. The loss of HP from engine to wheels. But, in eclipse's the loss in HP through the drive train is larger then some cars. The figure of 15 percent is a good average... But only an average. Its easy enough to gain extra power hear and there... and you can easily get it up to 185 hp in no time... but stock wise, you'll be looking at 165 on an average day.