Ok, so heres my dilemma. Next month I am rebuilding a motor. I have about 6k to spend. I dont know if I wanna spend all of it on rebuilding+turbo+clutch+lsd. If i go turbo im getting the NER stage 2b kit. Now what i was thinking of doing instead was just doing an 11.6:1 bottom end kit, street top end kit, afx ecu, udp and header with a stage 2 clutch and lsd, which should hopefully only run me about $3500, leaving me with $2500 for a bodykit, full car repaint, and whells/tires. Now my question is, how much power do you think I'll be able to pull from the all motor setup? TIA

NA is good if your going to race on a track in a certain class but its going to cost your more money to build a engine without a turbo. If you buy a turbo kit for 3000 then a top end kit for 900 + a bottom end kit for another 1000 you can around 300+ hp with a ecu build and injectors. TURBO is the way to go and you still have some money left over for some goodies.




www.cardomain.com/id/mitifto

I know turbo is the way to go for all out power, but heres the deal. Ner stage 2 kit(3200)+howell bottom end kit(1100)+cm stage 4(700)+Phantom Grip(300)+used bottom end and head(500)+bottom end work(200)+gauges(350) comes out to be $6350. For an NA motor itll only cost me about $3400, leaving me with alot more money to make my car look pretty. All I really want to know is a rough estimate on fwhp if I go NA.

there's no way you can do rims/tires, bodykit, and a full repaint for anywhere close to $2500. For performance go turbo.

u got 6k to spend why not do the 2.4 litrea stratus motor like im working on... and leave the bottom end stock and add turbo ud definatly ahve powere there....

It been said that 1 point in compression gives a 4% increase. So if stock is 9.6, a jump to 11.6 is 2 points. So just the compression is 140 * 1.04 * 1.04, equals 151.42 total hp. That’s with just the compression and no mods. With underdrive pulley, intake, header, exhaust, and cams. I am just guessing, but maybe 20hp at the most? So that would be 160 *1.04 * 1.04 = 173.05 total hp at the engine. But, then again that with the stock rev limit. With some good rods and pistons, you could rev higher and make way more power.

ok, first u gitta learn how to put things together.get a stg1 b-$2200. and get a used greddy intercooler or sumthin for like $500. theres ur stg 2. for $500 less. thats $2700 bux. you will be in low 14's. aint no way in HELL are you gunna be in the low 14's for 2700 bux NA. so you got 3300 to play with. 1100 for rebuild, 600 for cluch, 300 for phantom grip, 900 for top end, and the rest for a msd. you can be runnin way way fast with that set up! and remember the top end is not neccesary right away. id def say that NA isnt the way to go.




(im the black one)

-mitsuman
95 gs 5-spd
hrc stg 2 turbo kit
440cc rc injectors
Apexi S-afc
Blits-ss bov
Greddy PE exhaust
HKS TT
walbro intank fuel pump
crapp carthech FPR
test pipe
H&R sport springs
17" Motegi MR7's
CF hood
235/45/17 yokohamas r-rated
sony x-plod head unit, the one that fips down(4-got model)
2 10" 800 watt visonik subs
audiobahn chrome amp
custom sub enclosure (sounds like ish, not sealed)
window tinting

4-sale: blitz front end 200 bux

You drive a 4 cylinder vehicle, if it's going to be fast its going to be forced induction or its going to take 9000 RPM's to make any power. That's not practical for me, I like the rush of torque provided by a turbo. NA is weak, with the stuff you said there I would say no more than 190 horsepower, still less than a stock GS-T and still slower. Just turbocharge it.

either way you go....get the 2.2L :) also, where you gettin those body parts/rims/paint from? i want that hookup :) 'cause damn thats a good deal!!!

1997 GS
Normally-aspirated and staying that way
OBX-R Type H Exshaust
OBX-R Test Pipe
AEM Long Ram CAI
Denso Spark Plugs
MSD 8.5mm Spark Plug Wires
K@N Valve Cover Breather
OBX Front Strut Tower Brace
Stillen Rear Strut Tower Brace
VIS Vented Carbon Fiber Vented Hood
Arospeed Bumper Brake Wing
Sparco Shift Knob
Koni Adjustables
Eibach Racing Pro Springs
Buschur Racing Fuel Pump Upgrade
Crower Stage 3 Racing Cams
AEM Timing Gears
Upgraded Valve Springs
Titanium Retainers
---Minus the back seat-----
---Minus all A/C Accessories---
---Minus all Powersteering Accessories---
No Stupid Neons
No stupid indiglo gauges
No Stupid bass system radio
No Stupid Window Pisser Lights
---If it doesn't make my car go faster or run better, it won't be on my car-----


You could always spend the money and get the stroker kit from Crower raises displacement up to 2.2 Liters....theres power gains....upgraded cams....thers power gains....adjustable timing gears...theres power gains....im pretty sure if your going to go all motor then you should go all out....and im pretty sure you can get above 200 hp just with the engine itself...not including bolt-ons

Crower only makes a stroker kit for 4G63, not the 420A. Howell makes the 2.2L stroker.

I'm working on all motor, right now my exhaust is really holding me back. The power is not bad, but dollar for dollar, you can get more for you money slapping on a turbo. I just like NA, so I'm going to see how far I can go. High compression, increase in displacement, one way or another. Now I just need the money.

Una salus victus.
He will triumph, who knows when to fight, and when not to fight. - Sun Tzu

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake Manifold, Crower Stage 2 Cams, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

u could do a all motor 2.4litre motor that would be cool can get about 250 or so outa one if u know how and i know more is possible...

rebuild+nos125shot+bodykit+paint and you still have moeny left

Well first off dont get the phantom grip, heard bad things about them from on here. But yeah it depends on what to get, do you want something that has slightly less low end torque and a little less power or something with the power band advantage, you can also look at it like do you want something that has character, a fun idle and a good high rpm vibe or a power adder most people have and doesnt seperate you from the crowd? Thats what it really comes down to your personal preferences. Just from the fact that you seem to be doubting the turbo idea makes me think you want to go NA, but are unsure because of all the turbo success stories on this board compared to the very few successful NA people. Me I like taking the hard route so Im staying NA, even if it kills me. So offering my NA viewpoint I would say, bottom end 11.6(dont forget to add in installation costs unless you can do it yourself), top end street nitrous grind atleast(recommend low drag cams since you have a higher redline),AFX ECU, UDP, Long tube header, P&P ports and polish combustion chamber (smooth polish exhaust and leave intake at 200grit I just read doing that helps low end tq by making turbulence which makes the pipe feel smaller), extrude hone intake runners(get that 200grit if you can also) and get a 56mm BTB(cant tell if you have one), just get a replacement stock clutch your not gonna be making that much power this way and it should hold up to my knowlege. Making guesstimations that should run you around 3500 without installation and such. ON the looks side, Ive seen lightweight rim packages going for 1100, he can get just sideskirts and a bumper for 400-600 if he shops wisely, and Ive seen a nice paint job that only cost 200 dollars. SO it can be done, good luck and I hope you make the right decision!
Brent

. I just want to say what a waste of time it is for us to go all motor on the 420a. First off with 11.6:1 compression you better be running race gas all the time or some really good engine management. Then you'll need a really good head job (no pun intended) and some big ass cams. This sucks for big cams offer shitty idle (unless theres VTEC), poor around town driving (i know this cause my dad has a built LS1 and with all the torque that thing has its still slow until upper RPM's) and the trade off for usable power-to-top end power isn't worth it. Go turbo. I rode in Armonds car this weekend, Trust me, you won't be disappointed!

Race gas with 11.6:1? Is that why the Neon guys can run 12.5:1 with nothing more than a little ignition retard and premiun unleaded?

I personally love the sound of a loping cam, and need my exhaust done to excentuate that sound, and get the full power out of them. And you think when a company makes aftermarket cams for a VTECthey don't touch the lower rpm profiles? I would sure hope so, since most VTEC motors don't get power unbtil you raise the revs up, I would want that fixed. And it's all in the profile cams you pick and how you match your mods, driveability does not always have to be completely tossed out the window.

The Neon guys are running 13's NA, we have a few extra pounds and their smaller diameter wheels gives them a slight avantage in gearing. But on essentially the same motor, I don't see a problem getting 14's. We just haven't explored it all the way yet. Because someone wants to try a different route doesn't make it a waste of time. It's a matter of personal preference.

Una salus victus.
He will triumph, who knows when to fight, and when not to fight. - Sun Tzu

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake Manifold, Crower Stage 2 Cams, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

Try and go for a ride in someone's turboed 2gnt. You will be instantly a changed man! I sure was :) TURRRRRBO BOOYYEEEE :thumbsup

Buy 2.2 Stroker kit along w/ some BPU's and see how the performance is NA. Then if your still not happy turbo it. No one on here has posted any results on the 2.2 as far as I know. Im curious what HP and 1/4 mile times you can get going all motor. To many people go turbo now. Its getting boring. I remember when I first went turbo'ed a year ago there weren't that many people turbo'ed yet. Good luck either way.
-Dave

You must really love modding and shit, $600+ dollars to sink into a car?!?!?!?!!? I need a new job!! I'd have to say go the turbo route, but if you do go N/A after all, try out the quad throttle body thing, you can get big gains from that. Just remember, don't expect to get that money back if you ever sell that car! Not even 1/4th of it.


Black '98 GS auto
I-vers intake
Custom (home made!) ram air conversion
Front & rear strut bars
OBX fog lights w/ fog light mod
Illuminated tail mod
RSR rear section
JVC cd player
Kenwood components
Sony XM-250 amp
10" Polk DX sub