Call Howell Automotive at 1-800-531-2184!

If Gary doesn't start getting orders for these things, he's going to *stop making them*. After the uphill battle we fought to have these things done, it would be a shame for it all to go away.

Currently 97 models are available. 97 ECUs *might* work in 98 cars, but that has not been confimed. 95s are not available and never will be, and 99's will be available "soon". Currently the ECUs are MTX only.

If you have a spare ECU (96, 98, 99 MTX or ATX) Please contact Howell Automotive and offer it as a core for testing.

c'mon, guys!

How much are they?

what does this ECU get your? What's it good for? How much it is?

Notice how on each run the ECU gained more and more after it learned the car a little. 10-15 extra horsepower at the wheels for just plugging it in.

I would like to know how much they are as well. Also why do we need to send in cores for testing if he is "making them"

Will it work good with turbo and/or nitrous? I'm interested, but I'm planning to use nitrous and then go turbo.

Brian

1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS

Mods: Airbox modification, NGK-BKR5E spark plugs. There was a filter at the end of the stock intake pipe, but i ran over it.

Yes.

He needs the cores to program. You can't just "build" them from scratch.

If you have any questions about it, please call Howell at 1-800-531-2184 ..

Someone there will be able to answer all of your questions. (or at least the ones i can't) Remember, this ECU put down 10fwHP with only 20-30 minutes total run time in the car (in THIRD gear - we should have dyno'd fourth). it barely had any time to learn its new life before we ran the crap out of it on the dyno.

why aren't they making the 95 ones? :(

They don't make a 95 Neon ECU either. We're an oddball year. While there is some similarity between the 96-99 years, the 95's are a whole different ball game.

Well there was a reason why the price wasn't posted right away. I called up Howell only to find out they wanted $390 + $150 core charge.....Needless to say, Howell's really trying to make a buck on this. I'm going to wait for somebody else to crack it and maybe the price will go down. There's no way I'm shelling out $400 for a 10 hp gain, that hasn't been truly tested yet. There still could be long term effects with this.

IMHO, save the money towards a turbo (you're a 1/4 of the way there)or add nitrous (atleast a 50hp gain)....even though it isn't constant.


-Chris.

>Well there was a reason why the price wasn't posted right
>away. I called up Howell only to find out they wanted $390 +
>$150 core charge.....Needless to say, Howell's really trying
>to make a buck on this. I'm going to wait for somebody else
>to crack it and maybe the price will go down. There's no way
>I'm shelling out $400 for a 10 hp gain, that hasn't been
>truly tested yet. There still could be long term effects
>with this.
>
>IMHO, save the money towards a turbo (you're a 1/4 of the
>way there)or add nitrous (atleast a 50hp gain)....even
>though it isn't constant.
>
>
>-Chris.

Chris what do you do for a living? Are we going to hear about you on the next episode of the dumb crook news on John Boy and Billy's big show? The software is copyrighted, and we will presue it.

The price wasn't posted beause i didn't know it.

As far as the price goes, at least 10 wheel horsepower for $390 isn't a bad deal. an AEM CAI and underdrive pulley would run about the same, and you sure as shit won't see 10 wheel hp from them. Also consider the amount of R&D that goes into something like this. It isn't about making a buck, it's about recouping losses. Howell has to pay someone for the time spent cracking this ECU, and it wasn't a day or two. it was a month or two.

You think "someone else" is going to do it? I've been with 2GNT for a long time. We've tried a lot of things to get an ECU made for us. It took us *THREE YEARS* to get this far.

Also consider this: Anything else you add with this ECU will make MORE POWER that it would with a stock ECU. So that 50 shot could make 75hp. Just food for thought.

Actually you'd be surprised. The AF/X Computer has been out for the neons for a couple of years and the price is the same for them also.. It takes alot of technical knowledge to create these. They actually flash the new program into the PCM's so you dont have to worry about someone soldering chips onto your PCM or anything like that. As one person has already said you will notice more of a HP change with more mods. Say 10-15 hp with a stock car. Now add intake, UDP, Header, CAMS and you will notice more of a benefit. Hope this helps guys..

Id be very interested in this, but is there a link on here showing things like its timing retard/advance capabilities(i dont wanna throw an ECU in there thats gonna advance timing even more than the stock one), abd can it be made to run larger injectors or will it need a piggyback also? i guess what im wondering is, what DOES it do to get the extra HP? lean fuel? advance timing? i wouldnt be too much on those two on a turboed car.

Both of those, actually. It takes some fuel out of the top end, and advances timing more up top. it also drops the after-cat O2 sensor, and, i beleive, the EGR. it moves the rev limit to 8200RPM as well. Armond runs it on his Avenger, so i can't see it being bad for a turbo car if it's properly tuned.

Are they going to make one for the A/T ecu? I hope so...

>Well there was a reason why the price wasn't posted right
>away. I called up Howell only to find out they wanted $390 +
>$150 core charge.....Needless to say, Howell's really trying
>to make a buck on this. I'm going to wait for somebody else
>to crack it and maybe the price will go down. There's no way
>I'm shelling out $400 for a 10 hp gain, that hasn't been
>truly tested yet. There still could be long term effects
>with this.
>
>IMHO, save the money towards a turbo (you're a 1/4 of the
>way there)or add nitrous (atleast a 50hp gain)....even
>though it isn't constant.
>
>
>-Chris.

Chris,

I think Gary was not trying to be rude. Your comments come as breaking into an AF/X PCM and stealing the code which is copyrighted.. If it wasnt meant that way then fine but from the way it reads I would take offense too. Howell spent some decent $$$ and time to get this PCM out for this group so Im sure they are touchy when people say "I will wait for someone to crackit to make the price go down." 40.00 higher in price than a neon isnt bad considering more programming for the Turbo guys.

As for alot of the other responses.. No the AF/X PCM might not be for your system design as Howell makes these for the norm. If your a Turbo guy I would think if your gonna invest in the PCM then you would be wise to invest in the dyno time to tune it to your application. As for the stock turbo guys I dont see any problems with the PCM. But if your have a special application under your hood as in aggresive CAMs and the such.. I would think then you would be wise in using a Dyno to tune the car to get the performance you need out of the PCM.

As for the guys saying they would donate their PCM's.. Best bet would be to find a Junkyard PCM to offer up to Gary.. As he doesnt do the programming and Doesnt always know how long the programmer is gonna be to do the setup.

I have a 97 GS 2.0 and I'm interested in the statement at the top that says " ECUs are MTX only " Can someone explain that to me? Is this the type of ECU that the car has? How can you tell which type of ECU is in your car?

BTW, 10hp-15HP for 350-400 bux isn't bad at all. I know many people with VW's, and that's the going price for most of the chips. If you do your shopping around, your going to find that this is pretty much market price.

The other Big question I have, is related to turn around time. IF you have to turn your ECU over, what's the turn around time to getting your ECU back. If I could ship mine on Monday and get it back Friday that may not be an issue.

MTX - 5 speed manual.

ATX - 4 speed automatic.

Currently Gary is only offering MTX ECUs. if the units actually start to sell (which i am working on - support your 2GNT vendors!) Gary will work on ATX ECUs also.

Okay somebody with a turbo car post on here how it works with car turbocharged. I just dont want timing advance under boost, or at least a gross amount of it. I am very interested in this ECU and probably will purchase one depending on experiences on other turbo'd 420A's (Eclipes).

so i can just plug it in and all my future mods after its in will be the same like bigger injectors and safc it will all work the same or will i have to send it back to get the ecu changed a diffrent way?

If it moves your rev limiter to 8200 do you need to have changed internals? Like new springs/retainers, valves, things like this? If this is a dumbass question I'm sorry :)

Will using cam gears work good along with the ECU?


Brian

1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse RS

Mods: Airbox modification, NGK-BKR5E spark plugs. There was a filter at the end of the stock intake pipe, but i ran over it.

>Will using cam gears work good along with the ECU?
>
>
>Brian


Yes.

>will it work in a turbo car?

Yes. Armond currently runs it in his 400HP Avenger, and it has also run perfectly fine in Murix's car. The Atlanta guys plan to dyno it in at least one turbocharged 420A sometime in the future.

As for the ATX-MTX question the programming is slightly different between the cars so thats why there is a designation. I dont think there is a difference in the physical PCM. Also the PCM will have a new rev limiter which means people with built motors can spinn them up higher. Also you lose your Speed limiter if your car is equiped. As my 2K has a 118 speed limiter with the PCM I no longer have this problem.. Also From what I have read and learned about the pcms it takes what you had stock and tweaks it. So if your car naturally run Rich at WOT it will lean it out a little and the such.. Hope some of this helps..

whenever they get one for the autos I'll get it, or when I finally do a 5 speed swap...

C'mon manual trans people.
Order this thing so that I can get one for my automatic.
I can have the $$ in the mail the same day that it becomes available.

Who would have thought. A ecu that can learn with your mods, and lose some of those annoying features of the stock one (like the rear oxy sensor and egr). No speed limit. Upped rev limit.
I can't wait!
:thumbsup

I'd like to first see some dyno run info, with information about what car the runs were made on (was the car stock? ). And i'd like to know what happens to engine after you run the chip for several thousand miles. Most companies that I know of that make chips will run the engines hard for quite a while, then break them down and see what's cooking inside. At this point, the first poster gives me the impression they just finished the chip, and threw a car on the dyno. When everything is said and done, it's 400 dollars, but it's also going on a car worth quite a bit more. I look forward to reading more about the company making the chip, and information about how it performs in the long term. Please keep in mind that i'm not saying it's not a good chip (very far from it!!), i'm just very interesting in getting more date before I put a 400 dollar mod on my 8000.00 car.
Hopefully that sounds fair, and not nasty.

Howell Automotive has been in business for quite some time. They are not a fly-by-night company. You can see everything they have to offer at http://www.howellautomotive.com .

They have been producing AFX ECUs for Neons for several years and have litterally thousands of them out there. The Neon, while not identical to the 2GNT, is one of our closest relatives. The same gentleman who modifed the Neon ECU modified the 2GNT ECU. If thousands of Neons can take it, i think a 2GNT can too (better even, but that's just me ;-))

I guess my 95 AT is shit outta luck.

when they get a ecu setup for a 99 auto lemme know, I'll get the money out the day it is available

I don't see the point if you have a turbo'd car except for the rev limiter. I am trying to pull timing at high boost levels, not advance it or lean it out for that matter. Just because others are doing it, doesnt mean squat to me till they have dyno results on a turbo'd car and 30000 miles of use with it.

On a side note, did anyone even see Gary's reply to Chris's (calcio20) post? Rather rude in my opinion... OH WAIT, just like in real life :rolleyes

Will the 420a tranny be able to handle 8200rpms... seems like alot, also for 95s... if the engine is the same what else is different for the computers? if you flip them out your car will think its a 97 right? or did you already try it?

Just because you don't like the product or the price doesn't give you a right to complain. Someone else may be perfectly happy with it.

If you aren't interested, this thread isn't for you.

I dig it! more power for current mods, slowly gets better......and high revlimit....why not? :P

Soo, basically what yer saying is, if I don't promote this product for turbo guys, then keep my mouth shut, even if I dont think its a good idea with forced induction?? I'm sure its a good investment for a NA car, and I'm not saying that it is for sure not a good investment for a turbo car. I'm saying that I'm skeptical about it and I will be until its been tested and tried on turbo cars for a long time. This is a forum for people to get good, valid information from all angles, not just from the angle of one of the site's sponsors ;-)

>Soo, basically what yer saying is, if I don't promote this
>product for turbo guys, then keep my mouth shut, even if I
>dont think its a good idea with forced induction?? I'm sure
>its a good investment for a NA car, and I'm not saying that
>it is for sure not a good investment for a turbo car. I'm
>saying that I'm skeptical about it and I will be until its
>been tested and tried on turbo cars for a long time. This
>is a forum for people to get good, valid information from
>all angles, not just from the angle of one of the site's
>sponsors ;-)


I wasn't speaking specifically to you, nor am i saying it's good for everyone. The reason i made this post is to get the word out that it is available, and answer any questions that might come up. I know that you (and others, myself included) have had bad experiences with Howell, and i don't want it to turn into a flame fest. The bandwagon effect runs strong here. I mean it simply - if you're absolutely not interested in the product, there's no reason for derragatory posts to be made in this thread.

ahh, I just figured that by looking at the thread pattern (you were directly under me) that you were talking to me. I hear ya on the flaming bandwagon thing... I mean just look down.

Honestly though, I would really like to see this thread not get locked. I would like Gary to get in here and reply to what people say so that the truth can come out (regardless of who is wrong or right). Trust me, nobody here dislikes Howell Automotive on this board more than me for my issues I had with his block/clutch they sent me. But, I have tried to keep my personal opinions out and let the facts speak for themselves.

I wish we could start a new thread addressing this issue alone in a constructive manner without a bunch of flaming and bitching. It's important for people to know what they are dealing with when they buy from a vendor (good or bad). I would think that the information that comes from it would be valuable to gary if he takes it the right way... I mean, tons of companies pay millions of dollars to hear people bitch about them so that they can improve on their business... I won't start a new thread on it, but I would feel better about Howell Automotive if Gary started one himself.

>ahh, I just figured that by looking at the thread pattern
>(you were directly under me) that you were talking to me. I
>hear ya on the flaming bandwagon thing... I mean just look
>down.
>
>Honestly though, I would really like to see this thread not
>get locked. I would like Gary to get in here and reply to
>what people say so that the truth can come out (regardless
>of who is wrong or right). Trust me, nobody here dislikes
>Howell Automotive on this board more than me for my issues I
>had with his block/clutch they sent me. But, I have tried
>to keep my personal opinions out and let the facts speak for
>themselves.
>
>I wish we could start a new thread addressing this issue
>alone in a constructive manner without a bunch of flaming
>and bitching. It's important for people to know what they
>are dealing with when they buy from a vendor (good or bad).
>I would think that the information that comes from it would
>be valuable to gary if he takes it the right way... I mean,
>tons of companies pay millions of dollars to hear people
>bitch about them so that they can improve on their
>business... I won't start a new thread on it, but I would
>feel better about Howell Automotive if Gary started one
>himself.


Matt,

I think that the question here is at what point does our responsibility end and yours begin. You claim that the block we shipped you had boltholes that were rusted, as these holes were unused on the core engine. At that point, logic would dictate you call to us and complain, which I would encourage. We never offered tapping or rethreading the boltholes as part of our service. This would add additional labor cost to the product that we would have to pass on to you the consumer. Had you called us one of two things would have happened, in a worse case scenario we would have had the engine picked up. Or we would have told you how to clean the threads using a tap. The problem is you never contacted us. You also never used a tap on your own. You drove a bolt in with an impact gun, which is not proper at all; this action you took on your own broke the metal surrounding the bolt. You never called us to ask if driving a bolt in with an impact gun was a good idea, it wasn’t as you can see the result. At what point do you take responsibility for your own actions? We never told you to drive the bolt in with an in pack, or even a hand wrench we knew what the result would be. You choose not involve us in the process until after your actions broke the block. At what point do you except responsibility for your own actions? Why did you not call us in the beginning? Why did you wait until you broke the block, through your own lack of knowledge?

Gary, you missed the point completely. I don't care about the threads or the piece braking off and I understand your point of view there.

The problems came when I started the block up for the first time and the 2 freeze plugs in the oil passages began to leak like crazy. One of them was behind the flexplate (too far up to get at without taking the tranny off) and the other behind the crank gear and one of the timing belt brackets. My whole point was that you advertise a plug and play block, and when I got it all put in and running, it leaked like crazy, so it definately was not "Plug and Play" by any means. I had to pull the tranny off myself to fix the one leak, then I ran out of time to work on it since MSU classes started up, so I had to pay over $500 to have the timing belt assembly pulled off and the other oil leak fixed. You even admitted to me on the phone that those plugs were supposed to have some sort of a sealant on them and neither of them did. That is your fault completely. It is your business' fault that I had to spend over $500 to have the one leak fixed, and I had to spend an entire weekend pulling the tranny out to fix the other. That is absolutely not my responsibility, it is yours.

Also, I should mention that it is your responsiblity that you sent me the block 2 weeks late (took you 6 weeks). Also, you accidently sent me the wrong clutch the 1st time, so after I got my engine out, I had to wait a week to even start putting the new one in, and consiquently, I had no car for a week (tough getting to work that way...). I purchased the block with the intention of swaping it out in a weekend, and a weekend turned into a month for reasons that were not my fault. Taking a month to get a "Plug and Play" block installed does not seem reasonable to me. So you see, an offer for $25 worth of compensation was simply insulting. Maybe we were not on the same page with the problems that I had, but I already told you this exact story on the phone when you offered me the 25 bux. Thanks for the reply though.

The plugs are not required to have sealent on them, we usally do though. It is usaual that they would leak, even if they didn't have sealent. That is a grey area, had we forgotten the plugs, yes we would be at fault. We installed the plugs, but left off a non-required sealent. I just looked in the book, no sealent is required, but we have in the past put on a sealent. It is a grey area, we put in what the spec book required, we didn't go beyond what the spec book required. Grey area. Opinions from neutral obsevers?

The clutch. Our records indicate you order a clutch for a turbo car, which is what we sent. You have a non-turbo car with a turbo, which is a different clutch. I will share half responsiblity on this one. We should have ask in detail, you should have made sure we knew it was a Non-turbo car with a turbo. This was an easy mistake for both of us to make.

gary

I replied to this in your other thread. I thought it was more appropriate there.

>Just because you don't like the product or the price doesn't
>give you a right to complain. Someone else may be perfectly
>happy with it.
>
>If you aren't interested, this thread isn't for you.
>
If i didn't the the product, I would have 540 reasons why I have a right to express it. I don't think it's good business telling customers that they don't have the right to express dislike on a product that they are unsatisfied with.

I too would like to see some solid dyno numbers. 400+ bucks for 10 to 15 HP isnt way outa line, buts it isnt cheap. I am more for it for the rev limiter, and the removal of the rear o2 and egr codes. For an NA car, this may be a good way to go. For a turbo car, i'd say its a waste of money IMO. All you gotta do for 10 to 15 HP is just simply up the boost about 1.5 psi. Thats free :) Long term testing and reliabilty should be a big concern for anyone. I hope people will wait for good dyno numbers and some time for this. Thats called playing it safe, esp with hard earned money.

Gary, I was going to just give my opinion on the product and move on. However, as a result of your ignorant response, (you're a lot like your customer support) I feel I need to clear my mind about your company.

First, I wouldn’t buy wire loom from you. Your customer service is horrible and unresponsive. Case in points: you can’t ship the right clutch the first time, nor sell a block in working condition(see below link). Matt later called Gary up inorder to get a partial refund for the trouble he went through with the damaged products.....Gary offered $25.00. Matt payed $3,000 for it all. (http://www.2gnt.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5836&forum=DCForumID25#0)

An example that sums up the customer support is this post by Dirty:

“I have also givin up. For the long periods between ordering and actually getting the products and the people on the phone that act like you are bothering them when you call, makes me wanna spend my money somewhere else. Thats a damn shame to, cause I really like the products they have for our cars and the prices, but until they can start to take care of their customers and act like they give a fuck about the people that spend money there (respond to email, be more considerate on the phone, stand by their products, etc.)I will do no more business with them either.”

One of the best members on the board (hadesomega):

“I've never ordered anything from them because they never reply to my email. THat's as far as I got....”


Another great member of the board: 1tuffrs:
“Well I have to side with Matt and Xtreme on this one. I ordered an UDP from Howell and they seemed kind of rude on the phone, but I was like no biggie. They told me that the UDP would arrive in about 2 days, so when it didnt come I called and asked for a tracking number so I would know its status, well the guy on the phone said "we dont give tracking numbers until its considered late, give it a couple of days 'click'." When the UDP came about 4 days later (im in NC so it shouldnt have taken that long, but still no biggie) my buddies in my car club and I set aside a saturday for the install. Well we get everything taken apart and are ready to put the UDP on when we realize its not the right one. It was for a neon. So I call them up and they tried to tell me that they sent the right piece and even put me on the phone with their tech guy. Well the tech was like "you have a 97 Neon right?" and when I said NO, he seemed shocked. Then they are like no prob we will send a UPS call number and send out your new UDP right today. Well I waited and waited and a week went by so I decided to give them a follow up call. I was told that they never put the order in and that "I guess they forgot about it." This all happened a while ago, but I just recently got the call number for the old part. After this experience I highly doubt that I will ever order from them again either.”

These were all taken word for word. Dino, none of these are my opinions....I’m just letting the board members know who they’re ordering from. It should be known. Now ask yourself, “Would I trust the brain (ECU) of my car to Howell?”... If so, buy it. If not, move on.

Gary, you own a business...PR is everything... Think before you post.

Your friend,
Chris


EDIT: OMFG, he gave me negative feedback! Check my profile: 9/18/2002 AFX_Manufacturing Condones Criminal Activity

Needless to say, I'm not going to play the stupid game you play.

I can't refute that people have bad experiences with vendors. it happens. It happens to everyone, with any vendor, at some point.

if anyone wants my *personal* opinion on this, feel free to email me or send me a PM.

Other than that, i really don't have anything to say. Shit happens.

However, this thread is not about that. This thread is about the AFX ECU. Try and keep it on topic, i really don't want to have to lock this because a few unhappy people decided to turn it against me.

Well I may call and offer up my 99 ECU, if they don't have one already. I would encourage you all to buy these things from Gary. Enough of you complained to him that they didn't have a af/x ecu yet for our cars, now they are here so buy them!!

Well, I'd offer my 98 MT ECU up for programming, and test it on some NT cars that actually use the ECU more... But I don't want to get into that "it wont take long", its been 5 months shit...".

The ECU seems like a good deal for the buck.. that's about the average price for a ECU with all that stuff done to it, but when armond melted pistons right off the bat, it scares me, I think us higher up turbo guys would have to do a lot of tuning to get it right.

Every company has their quirks, its hard to get good customer support now days, but if Gary took the effort to make us 2GNT guys an ecu, whether it be for the all mighty dollar or whatever the case may be... he still did it, so atleast we got another upgrade out of his fortune.

Yes, for someone who's "so bad and a horrible businessman"...he sure did pull through for all of us to make this ECU for our cars. That right there should at least show us all that he is trying and showing dedication to our cars. He's trying this thing called "PR" because he is listening to the public and what they need/want. I myself would be interested in this...since it will be a whiles before Lois sees boost. I'm sorry for those that don't like Gary or his shop, I hope everything gets worked out in that aspect. It's like a restaurant - some people hate it b/c they got food poisoning, and never come back, but those who did and came back for a second chance sometimes figured it was a one-time fuckup and mistake. That's anywhere you go, whether it be a shop, restuarant, a JOB, anything...I'm just looking at it from Chris' (Calico) viewpoints AND Dino/Gary's viewpoints. Hell DINO HIMSELF said "i myself included" with people who got burned in the past...and he's still showing a show of support. Regardless if he is a Vendor or not people, before you use that against him, Dino doesnt have to run the site, he could care less who is or isnt a vendor of 2GNT. Dino does this for a hobby , nothing more.


Well I typed longer than I intended to. heh :)

I would buy one, but I can not afford it yet. As soon as I get some extra money I will purchase one and throw it on Shamu and see what happens.

I would buy one too, but I am gonna wait till someone else starts making these things and drives down the price, teehee, j/k, and no I don't condone criminal activity, well actually... I do.. but not this kind, ;-)

Myke's right bout Dino, he's a real good guy as we all know and is in this as a hobby, and investest a lot of time in the site and helping others like myself.

P.S. I think these ECU's should be at a "I need this" basis, where if a turbo guy doesnt want to advance timing up top or trim fuel, we can have that not messed with.... Cause really all I would be looking for is MABY a wee bit more advance, an unlimited rev limiter, not just upping it a little, I mean you sell your stuff as is, its not like anyone is gonna blow their engine up and blame you cause I'm sure you have them sign sayings "it's your", and I want to use my ignition box to control what I set it at... Umm another thing would be removing all the stupid codes we get, maby we could tell Gary ahead of time what we're looking to remove... Other than that, thats bout it.

I want one, but are they available for the '99? I can't have downtime and I don't have the dinero for one right now so it may be awhile. How long do they forsee the '99 taking?

Also my question was never answered earlier...if the rev limiter is going up to 8200rpm do I need different internals? Like titanium valve train stuff or what?

the PT Cruiser valvetrain is enough. Stock will handle 7800 for a while, but after several months of it (depending on the prior condition of the valvetrain) you may start to break rocker arms. Stock valve springs and retainers won't float the valves until after 9000RPM, if i remember right.

On a side note, i believe that Armond blew his motor this last time because the wideband O2 sensor he tuned with was off, causing him to tune too lean. I did not hear this directly from him, but from an associated party close to him. Take it for what it's worth.

Mike, Brad - Thanx guys. Sometimes i feel like people have me all wrong ;-)

im willing to give up my 99 ecu if its not gonna take months to reprogram. why is everyone whining about it when everyone has been on gary to hurry up and get one out? he did us a favor....if yall dont like it, dont buy it.. thats the bottom line







GS-N pssssst!

I emailed Gary and offered my ECU..... just haven't heard back form him yet.

oh ok....thats cool




GS-N pssssst!

I've never really understood the concept of a "core" with any purchase... How does that work?

let's say I don't want downtime, want to keep my old ecu (since i keep 99% of my stock parts) how much would it be then, and is this something that is "plug n play" like good ol' Microhack? :)

the core charge is $150. This covers the cost of Howell having to buy another ECU. it would be $390+150 for the core. If you send in the core (your stock ECU) it would be $390 with the core charge waived.

You can pick up stock ECUs for fairly cheap these days. let me know if you're interested, Mike, i can give you some people to talk to..

im interested but faster gs said he's on top of if. he called someone but for whatever reason he doesnt go through with it i will definately send mine.






GS-N pssssst!

Hmmm I might take you up on that Dino. Beleive it or not, I'd get that instead of doing any type of exterior crap (ie., skirts, etc)...I like the idea of how my dyno was already 122 whp when Nick's almost stock RS was hitting that and gaining more and more each session in less than 10 minutes. I'd have to hit AT LEAST 140 whp with my mods and that ECU. That's what is making me so interested in this product, Gary & Dino.

Okay haters!!! Can we just let this go about Gary and Howell automotive??? we have all had good and bad experiences with businesses at one point or another. IT COMES WITH THE TERRITORY!!!!!!!! i personaly talked to the man about my cams/lash adjuster problems and they weren't even his product. HE was as helpful as he could be given the situation and the shit not even being his. He even wanted me to call him back after i got it figured out just so he could know.

Business is business!!! Some customers will be happy, some will not. His organization is one of ther best that deals with our cars and motors. You know anyone else thats established thats as dedicated to the 2gnt/420a community?

Please feel free to express your opinions and move on. If the post dosen't apply to you or isn't about your problem specificly, please don't flame. I think by and large there are MANY more people on this board that are HAPPY with howell than not.
just my $.02

I just got off the phone with Gary. He said that if enough people get this ECU then maybe they will start working on a ATX ECU, but it is a little harder to do since the programming is different. He did say something about a neon ATX on our cars and the ECU for them. I didn't go much further with that because I know he is a busy man, but if that works (I just haven't heard this before, so maybe he can let us know more about it) I will do the swap. I can get one for pretty cheap and I want to stick with an ATX. There might be hope for us AT people after all. He also mentioned how well the neon tranny could be built for performance, so this is definately something I'm interested in. If I had the MTX, I would definately have this ECU. It just sucks that being AT I can't do more to help.

Why will there never be a version for the 95? What do I do, how do I make my car read boost correctly?!

Funny that for 2GNTs, there will never be an ECU for the 95s; however with 2GTs, its the complete opposite. You can only reprogram early 95/96 ECUs (ie www.dsmlink.com)

For those that complained that $340 is too expensive for reprogramming your ECU: If you think that expensive, try reprogramming your ECU for a 2GT (www.dsmlink.com), let alone a complete standalone ECU (say from AEM) costs at least $1000.

Question: Will bypassing the O2 sensor and EGR affect smog testing in any way?

I will be getting one of these when they come out for the ATX!!

Jay sent an email to Howell offering a 96 MTX, so hopefully we'll hear somethig on that soon.


Jen
98 Eclipse RS
modified air box
euro clear side markers w/ blue bulbs
GS-T muffler
Turbo wing waiting to be painted
"still NT just because :)" ... VX100

I'm with Brad... they need to custom program them for the turbo guys that don't want all the timing advance. I'm very interested but don't like the idea of advanced timing with big boost. if they could just not adjust the timing and do the rest it would be great. i would be willing to offer up my 98 ecu but not if they are going to adv. timing.

atx atx ATX

you do know you brought up a topic from september of last year right? and even if they do come out with one for the later year eclipses you still have bypass the TCU or get a new computer for the automatic guys.
later

Sup, took me 1 hour to read every thing in this post.
But what I want to say is, Everyone fuck up once in their life, if not, tons of times. And it works the same on companies and etc.
So I mean, if it doesn't happen again or somesort, I won't really mind. But I konw exactly how you feel Matt. It happend to me before...shit.

BTW, Am I getting my SFMU, Missing Link, Oil Line, and Exhaut Manifold yet Motofool (Bill)? It's been 2 months man. Thx.

Anyway, I would LOVE to get that ECU, but WHY?? Why not for 95? Gary, can you consider doing it for the 1995 GS eclipse also? I will get one the day it's out man.

Gil.:thumbsup :thumbsup (good job)

>Anyway, I would LOVE to get that ECU, but WHY?? Why not for
>95? Gary, can you consider doing it for the 1995 GS eclipse
>also? I will get one the day it's out man.

there will probably never be an aftermarket PCM for the 95's because the 95 and early 96's have a quite different PCM. for example, it's not as picky about emissions as the late 96+ PCM's are. if i remember correctly, 95's with a turbo kit don't need any type of fuel cut defender because the ECU doesn't care when it sees boost. if you have the chilton's repair manual, take a peek at the wiring diagrams for the 95 and the late model 96+ PCM's and you'll see a big difference. the first thing that i noticed was there's simply less "stuff" with the 95's.

anywho, i guess i'm lucky that i bought a 97 MTX 2gnt.

This sucks man.
What you mean by don't need fuel cut defende???
I am building a custom turbo kit, so please make it more clear. Thanks.
What is a fuel cut defender?
Thanks.
Gil... You talking about the missing link?? I do need taht right?
Gil

the ECU on most 2gnt's tweaks out when it seems boost. (higher than 0 psi exerted on the MAP sensor) the 2 ways to fix this is to get the black box from HRC, which is a voltage clamp. most people think this is a pretty half-assed way to do it, and the black boxes have a substantal chance of failing after a while resulting in inaccurate A/F radios. 0 psi of boost is suppose to be about 4.5 volts, give or take a few hundredths. my black box clamps it to 4.1 volts, so i got rid of it and got a missing link which is just a check valve etc.......

i vaugely remember harassing dino on AIM a few months back about fuel cut, and i think he said something about how he doesn't have to worry about it in his car because his ECU doesn't care about seeing boost...?

to whoever said that the valve train would need to be rebuilt maybe with pt cruiser lash adjusters and stuff. What if you dont run it to 8200? Where is this hp gain actually made? Cause i dont feel like needing to rebuild my top end just to gain an extra 10 hp up there. if the 10 hp is from low to mid then ill get it. Also, i want to know how to check to see if I have the early or late model 96 ECU. Why can't i just swap out ECUs and wiring harnesses with a 97?

One really important question was never answered either . . .

How long is the turnaround time?? I can't afford to be down for more than a week, maybe 2 at the most. This is my only car, and I could bum rides, but not for long.
2gnt.fullwormage.com/files/apexiexhaust/

whatever they tell you, mine took 8 weeks, someone else 6, and a believe i heard fusions ecu was 9

Dont forget folks...this is an OFF-ROAD ONLY ECU.

With more and more U.S states enforcing emissions through OBD-2 test ONLY (READ - no more tailpipe sniffin) - you will most likely FAIL with this ecu as the DMV will be unable to initialize or test your OBD-2 system.

Gary - can you confirm or deny this?

_________________
Vinnie Lima
vinnie.lima@jvllogistics.com
AIM: Kiku888
1997 Chrysler Sebring "Silver XTC"
I4 420a w/ HRC Stage 2.45 w/ FMIC
14.7@97 mph@6psi
Proud member of the
ASOG BoOsT JuNkIe Crew

test
http://www.flyservers.com/members4/wonderracing.com/images/picture 001.JPG



97' Eclpse GS 420A
MODS*****
AEM cam Gears,MSD ignition,Chikira 4-2-1 header,Custom 2.5" exhast,Pacsetter hif

does anyone think i could modify my 95 so that this would work is there really that big of a difference between a 95 and the rest of the years

Nope, the 95 is completely different... here's why:

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=41582&mode=full

I will definately get one of these IF they work with 98s and once i see some info on running them on a turboed 420a. BTW you guys talking about sortware copyrights... If anyone has a copyright on the ECU software is chrysler, not howell. And in all reality its probably not right for howell to charge money for hacked up chrysler software. But i dont think chrysler cares and howell is charging for the labor and R&D. If it works, ill pay for it!!!

on my 95 the computer inthe engine bay says on the side of if factory authorized replacement in 1999 could this mean that its not the same as a 95

i dont think anyone answered if it messes with timing

yes it seriously messes with timing, this is not for a turbo'd vehical at all. but if you can tune it then yes but this is not a bolt on for a turbo car

Hey guys I'm a new member to 2gnt but I've been on dsmtuners for a while now.

I recently purchased a AFX ECU, here's my review:

Alright so I received my AFX ECU today (7/2/2013).

Let's go ahead and give it a review I thought for all the members here.

Ordered on 6/6/2013 and received on 7/2/2013 and installed 30 minutes later.

Now... the pics :rocks:

First I wanted to show off how well he packaged the ECU, because, these things are knocked around left and right on FedEX trucks we all know that:



And opening...



So I found this note on it and read it...



Turns out it arrived somewhat 'broken' but rest assured they said in nice cursive writing it would work.



So time to try it for myself :)

Granted it's a 120F degrees in Phoenix, I have no power tools, I felt like hitting up my neighborhood Loopers performance center. They did the install in 3 minutes flat.



3 minutes later she's in! So now to see any differences in rev limitor, performance, anything...

So here was the Rev limitor BEFORE the AFX install:



And sadly this was it AFTER:



Yes, it was the same. I know the website says "he's no longer able to change the rev limitor" but I was hoping that was just some technicality he had to list for this 'bad ass highway ECU' that I spent $563.68 on.

It looks, acts, and feels like a 'regular ecu.'

All in all I'm a little disappointed, not sure what I paid for here. Nothing feels different so far. Maybe later? Anyone else with a AFX ecu please chime in.

Just wanted to post this for everyone hear to see how long it takes and the whole process from opening the package to install :notgood: for the money IMO.

Shipping: 1/5 (took forever, even with Fedex)

Price: 1/5 (Not sure what I paid for here, arrived some-what broken and no gains from my butt-dyno yet. I've read other posts and they said they "NOTICED IT INSTANTLY."

Overall: I wouldn't have bought this mod. My nitrous kit was cheaper and it gives me 75 horse. I don't feel anything with this ECU. Heck my MSD ignition wires gave me a more power from my butt dyno than this.

Not sure what is with the pictures of your tach so not sure of the point there. I had one in my 97 and it made the biggest difference after about a week and high octane fuel you have to use it due to the spark timing. Also are you all stock? I have cane 2 cams, 2.7 valve train, duel TI springs and retainers, adjusted timing with gears, udp, cai, 60mm tb, and port and polish really the mods before the ecu were ok it all worked and ran good when I switched to the AF/X ecu it was the best thing my car ever had. I could rev to 9k and farther but was not feeling safe to do so. On the track I took one second off my 8th mile time with just changing to the AF/X ecu. So before you bash it give it some time to try and learn if you read anything about the ecu you would know this just read this thread it has everything you need to know.

Okay guys I'm still the new guy who don't know jack about tuning but still interested in my car though I haven't driven her for about 5-6 years yea she runs but I unfortunately have been on the road playing truck driver :)
Can I buy a reprogrammed ECU now or do I need to buy a junker and send this company one?
Will it pass smog or do I need to swap out to pass smog?
I got a 99 GS.

I'm sorry man but if I would have spent almost 600 dollars on a performance ECU from a vendor, the damn thing better not be "broken but work fine" when it gets there. I understand that these are core units sent in that they modify but point blank, thats not what you paid for, unless you sent it in like that and they shipped you your ecu back after the reflash(but I know thats not the case). Seems to me like all of the vendors that cater to the 2gnt do not give a rats ass anymore minus a VERY FEW. I understand its a dying market but money all spends the same way. At the least they could have given you a couple dollar discount or offered something to you for it being broken or even give you the option to wait on another ecu to be sent out or you say f it and send that one out to you. I don't know all the details but thats my 2 cents at this point, for that much cash you could have gotten an MS2 or 3 and have total control, of course if you have emissions to go through its a different story.

Wtf is Gary up to now? Can't change rev limiter anymore? (Though I don't understand what your pics are saying). Power change was noticeable almost immediately (and got better as time went on). It matched up very well to aprofessionally tuned MS unit. I wonder if he has somebody else doing his flashing.

I say threaten to get him out of office.

Yeah it arrived 1) broken and 2) rev limiter didn't change and 3) no noticeable gains in performance. I was assuming it was perhaps a 'honest mistake' and he sent me a stock one, as I've heard that has happened to some of the guys on the Neon forums. But he hasn't replied to ANY of my e-mails or hasn't been answering the phone lately at all.

I had no choice but to file a chargeback with my bank through VISA.

Be warned if you buy from Gary you might receive what I did, a broken ECU that didn't do anything my stock one didn't do.

Originally posted by bo0st
Yeah it arrived 1) broken and 2) rev limiter didn't change and 3) no noticeable gains in performance. I was assuming it was perhaps a 'honest mistake' and he sent me a stock one, as I've heard that has happened to some of the guys on the Neon forums. But he hasn't replied to ANY of my e-mails or hasn't been answering the phone lately at all. I had no choice but to file a chargeback with my bank through VISA. Be warned if you buy from Gary you might receive what I did, a broken ECU that didn't do anything my stock one didn't do.

Any update, interested to hear if you got your money back from howell and if Kevin's syked ECU worked out for ya?