First, thanks for the help so far everyone, now I've got some other stuff to ask... (heh heh)

Ok, here's what's going on. With the cam gears set to zero, I drove the car around some more today. It seems to drive around just fine. It still idles a bit lumpy, but drives just fine and isn't rough. And it pulls on the1bill's car :)

I just brought it in from a 40 minute drive, and the car seemed to idle better. Still a bit rough, but better than earlier in the day.

Now that begs the question, could the car just need to "re-learn" how to idle smoothly again, since the computer was disconnected from the battery for a while?

Also, another important question. If the timing is off, can it only be off by a tooth on the belt at a time, or can the timing be off by half or a quarter of a tooth? (or whatever) that is a hard way to explain it, but I think you'll get what I mean.

It seems to me the timing would have to be off by one-tooth increments (that is probably clearer)

Now, I ask this because from looking at the gears the intake cam MIGHT be off by a tooth (in the advance direction, from the number of teeth, 42, I figure each tooth is about 8.5 degrees cam angle, or twice that at the crank, so it might be advanced 17 degrees too much, yikes!). The exhaust cam has the sensor, so if it was off by a tooth I'd see a check enging light (I don't have a check engine light) so it might be the intake cam. Does this make any sense at all, or am I grabbing at straws?

So, it coud be:

A. car needs to re-learn how to idle and run (fuel trim values)

B. the timing is off by a little bit (if it can be off by less than a tooth)

C. only the intake is off, probably by a tooth

D. I am crazy (we already knew that!) :)

At this point I have no clue what's going on, other than the car drives around fine and it idles a bit lumpy (which it shouldn't)

Any help is, of course, greatly appreciated

My guess would be it is off by a little. I don't know if it would be one tooth or less though. When mine was initially off, it just idled a bit ruffer, but sounded normal when you revved it. Some people actually drive around with their timing off by a tooth and it's not a big deal temporarily, but you should definitely fix it if you want to actually make use of your cam gears.

To determine if the ECU just needs to relearn, just compare to your past experiences with the ECU being reset. Was your idle rough then? For me, the car idles the best always right after resetting the ECU. I think my ECU freaks out when it tries to learn with the ported and milled head. Also, with stock head, I never had any problems with idle after resetting the ECU. Only the initial start up might take a couple tries. Hopefully others can elaborate on their experiences.

My timing was off less than a tooth because I did not tension the belt correctly (maybe because the tensioner takes the slack out of the left side but leaves some in the right side?). In my FSM it had some weird method to tension the timing belt, which I have never seen before. However, once I did it like the book said timing was perfect.



Eric Madden

I think it may just be re-learning... It oculd be possibkly to be off by less than a tooth, but I'll have to look closer when I put the motor back together. I'll play with it for you and see. my brain is somewhat slow at the moment.

Una salus victus.



Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake Manifold, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

I don't see how it can be off by less then a tooth. There is only so much space between the exhaust cam and the crank sprocket. There are a fixed number of teeth in a given amount of space, so it has got to be off by a multiple of one tooth, or, if you are a physics major, I think that 1 tooth is the quanta of cam timing, adjustable cam gears nonewithstanding...
And Todd, if I didn't put so much damned gas in it, I might have done better... hehehe... <face falls from a lauch into a sad face, tears well up, "I NEED A MOD!">
-=B-= <=== gonna stop eating to save some weight...

I took another look at the VFAQ, (please refer to http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G-NT.html for to the timing belt installation procedure) I think I know what went wrong. Everything was lined up properly, but there is a specific procedure for mounting the belt, moving the crank 1/2 a tooth from TDC, then moving it back to take up belt slack.

That is what I missed, I lined up everything but didn't take up the slack properly. I just wound it as tightly as possible on the side opposite the tensioner. Eric, it looks like you and I did the same thing.

Also, because it seems the AEM timing marks probably don't match the stock timing gear marks (thus, they'd have to be removed, remarked, and reinstalled, it's better to confirm this than run around with the car's timing being screwed up) I feel I've got no choice but to take everything apart again and realign the timing belt.

Wish me luck.

Yeah I was about to say something about that half turn thing in the manual. Glad you figured it out but sucks that you have to take it all apart again. You may want to drill those holes afterall. . .just think of it as weight reduction!! ;-)



________________________________________________________________________________________
current status - No 3rd Gear synchro


http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/
www.Fast420A.com

The last time I started drilling stuff in my car...

ahh, never mind, I don't want to relive that episode :o

I'm not brave enough to do more drilling :7

Anyway, thanks again everyone for helping me out. It was greatly appreciated!

We did Blakes with just keeping the tension on the front side of the belt. Worked for us, but whatever gets it alighned right, go with it!

Una salus victus.



Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake Manifold, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

:) (took me four times before I said F' it and did what the FSM said)



Eric Madden

Hey todd, did you check out my write up on the t-belt install? I kinda went over the whole process of putting on the new belt and lining up the marks. You MUST use a torque wrench on the tensioner pulley bolt while tightening the tensionr body to the block. This is very important, as this sets the amount of proper tension on the belt. You do indeed have to do the half notch mark thing, as this will fully line up the marks all good. Also, you must use a small pin or nail in the tensior itself when setting the tensioner. On the tensioner body, there is a small hole that goes through each side of the tensioner body. You should be able to put a nail through this hole, and keep the plunger pushed down, and then the nail should go through the other side of the tensioner body, out that hole. Then you use the torque wrench on the tensioner pulley bolt(20 ft pounds) and then while holding this tension on the pulley, you push up on the tensioner body to mate with the tensioner pulley, then tighten down the tensioner body to the block. If the tension is right on, let off the torque wrench off of the bolt, and you should be able to pull out the nail or pin you put in the tensioner body. If it doesn't pull out easily, then you MUST re-do the tightening process over again. Hope this helps..

Yes Matt, that helps ALOT! I'll make sure to get that tension right.

Anyone have a source or an extra bolt to use to get the crank pulley on? Maybe just the size? I'm sure it can be ordered online. I had one, but it wasn't high enough quality, and it finally gave out. I need to redo my timing belt, but it might be better if I can get my pulley back on... None of the bolt shops around me stock metric bolts for shit.

Clint
97 Eclipse GS