Trust me, this install is not easy. Make sure you are prepared if you are going to perform it. Set two days aside, and when you get tired, take a break and/or finish it the next day so you don't make mistakes (like putting in a motor mount upside down :( )

I have to thank the1bill for sacrificing so much time to help me with the install. His help was invaluable as always. Besides the upsidedown motor mount, we also broke a harmonic balancer puller. I got my money back so it's all good. The bolts for the engine mount bracket are a major PAIN to remove, so instead of drilling holes inthe chassis (I dinged up the side of the shock tower trying to pry out the upside down motor mount, so I didn't get away scott free), we hung the engine on ONE motor mount and moved it up and down about as far as it would go. So if you need to, you can support the engine on one mount (the driver's side mount the tranny is attached to, to be exact). Also, make sure you have something like a cut off tool (and a GOOD cutting wheel) on an air compressor if you are going to "modify" the timing belt cover, dremel tools and hacksaws just don't do the job well.

Anyway, the car runs, it didn't blow up or bend valves. I installed the gears already set to 2 degrees advance on the intake cam and 2 degrees retard on the exhaust cam (one mark on the gears).

Well, at these settings the car lopes at idle, and occationally wants to stall, but not very often. I can not be sure if this added top end power or not, but it doesn't seem to have problems driving around. I'll need to drive some more to be sure (good thing I don't work tomorrow)

When I get a chance I'll set the gears to 0 and see if the idle is the same as stock. If not then I'll reset the timing (oh, what fun :rolleyes) but I don't think I'll have to, all the timing marks lined up perfectly after the belt was tensioned.

The questions I have are:

Did anyone else have idle problems at 2 degrees advance and 2 degrees retard? Is that common?

What is the best way to adjust the gears now that they are on the car?

And, what other setting (advance/retard) should I try? I'll get to a dyno eventually, but I don't think it would be anytime soon. My best guess now (due to the problematic idle) is I'll try 1 degree advance and retard instead of 2 degrees. Good idea or not?

If I remember correctly, advancing the intake and retarding the exhaust SHOULD increase the overlap of the valves, right? Someone clarify this for me :)

Thanks for any help you can give.

Hey Todd,

Install was seriously hard. Honestly the only way to get those suckers on would be to pull the whole motor. Anyways, did your car idle normal with the 0*/0* setting? I have AEM cam gears on my car and did not have any problems with a jumpy idle or the car almost dying. Currently they are set to 0*/0* (I had some tuning issues I had to isolate). I have tried these settings and did not have an idle issue. intake/exhaust .... +4*/0*, +4/-2*, +2*/-2*.

Thura, I have not tried the gears set at 0 yet. I will try to adjust them tomorrow and see if the idle is ok at "stock."

What is the best way to adjust the gears?

Also, I had to take the battery out, thus resetting the computer, could THAT have caused the jumpy idle instead???

I usually have an interesting idle for 10 minutes or so once I reset my computer, and I have done this a lot with the transmission swap. What are the requirements to trip the check engine light on code 11? Does the car need to be driving? Or will it see it quickly on idle? I know it takes and compares the crank angle sensor and the cam angle sensor. Check the timing of the cams, and make sure that they are in time with each other, and give the ECU a chance to check the 2 sensors and compare them. If you drive it around a bit and don't get a code 11, then the timing should be alright. I think that the timing is right on, though. We went to many different efforts to make sure that the timing was right. Is the belt still tight? Just wanted to make sure that we didn't jack up the tensioner. Also, is there a chance that the AFC settings should be changed to account for the change in airflow characteristics? Maybe setting the sAFC to 0 and keeping the cam gears at +2/-2 would improve the idle? Then you could retune the AFC based on datalogs... I would be more then willing to help out. Let me know.
-=B-= <==== **NEEDS** to install the cam gears and get an AFC...

COngrats Todd. I had no idle problems even with your settings when I had a stock head. I tried a lot of extreme settings like -4, 0, or +4, 0 etc and the idle was fine on all of them. Also, my car idles perfectly (even better than normal) everytime I reset the ECU.

As far as changing the settings, I assume you have the new 8 mm hex bolts? If so, by far the easiest was is to get a small combo wrench (but only use the closed end, not sure how to describe it). With that, I can easily adjust the exhaust gear. You will need a 18 mm wrench (I believe) to turn the middle of the gear once you loosen the adjustment bolts. The intake cam gear is a little harder, but possible to do with the two crescent wrenches. If you can't reach all the loosening bolts, then just turn your crank pulley with that same 18 mm crescent wrench (or a socket). Just be very careful not to drop any wrenches into the timing belt cover when you adjust it. Good luck.

Make sure you have the gears for the Eclipse 420A and not the neon 420A. They did that to me from AEM and I had to redegree them manually. The gears are the same but the initial timing mark would be off.

>Make sure you have the gears for the Eclipse 420A and not
>the neon 420A. They did that to me from AEM and I had to
>redegree them manually. The gears are the same but the
>initial timing mark would be off.

AEM lists the same part number 23-650 for both the neon and the eclipse 420a. But you are right about the initial timing mark being off. It is off by a bit so the two white marks don't line up perfectly. RRE has a lot of pics on their site of the cam gear install showing the new marks they made on my gears too. The pics are in this folder:

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclipsetech/2gnt/

Here is the main pic. The longer marks were made by RRE (the ones that line up). The shorter marks are the ones on the cam gear originally from AEM. The shorter marks don't line up straight.

I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and take the engine apart again.

The longer marks were made by RRE
>(the ones that line up). The shorter marks are the ones on
>the cam gear originally from AEM. The shorter marks don't
>line up straight.

Now the queston becomes, how do I know how much to "offset" the marks? How do you determine where the proper timing marks should be located?

Do I just compare them side by side to the stock ones?

Another quick question Todd. Did you have them set to 0 before you put them in or did you have them already set to +2*/-2*? I was told it is always good practice to have them set to 0 when installing them and then adjusting after the install. I don't think the afc could make the idle that jumpy. I had the afc on my car after the install and I didn't notice any problems other than it running a little richer than normal (btw, I would bypass the afc while the ecu relearns it short term fuel trim since you disconnected the battery).

Well, my SAFC isn't set to do anything at idle, so it isn't effecting the idle. I'll probably set it back to 0 for a little bit, even though the way it is set at cruise it doesn't do anything, only at high throttle.

I set the cam gears to 0 for both cams. The idle got a little better, but it's still a bit "lumpy" which it shouldn't be. The car's timing must be off due to the cam gear makrs being off. It looks like I'll have to reset it.

Sorry Todd, I'm not sure exactly how to check the timing. RRE figured it out when they put it in and the idle was a bit lumpy - they realized that the marks were off. Hopefully someone more technical on here can tell you (I think this is why some shops have trouble installing cam gears). You "might" be able to do it by eye also if you compare the marks on the stock gears to the marks on the AEMs. I think that is what RRE did. They also rotated it a few times to make sure it kept lining up right.

I was thinking the exact same thing, if I get the chance, I'll compare the AEM gears to the stock ones to make sure the marks are lined up.

Also, I am going to look into getting higher grade bolts, just in case.

And, I'll post the update seperately. :)

Two days? Come on Todd it only took a day to get the whole motor out :P

The only way I can think to be sure is to compare the stock cam gears to AEM's to check timing marks. But yeah see what she does at 0-0...

Marcus, are you sure the timing marks weren't altered because of teh milled head? The shorter timing belt distance would need new timing marks. Because, if I'm right, the same can gears are used for Neon, Eclipse, Avenger, PT Cruiser, etc.

Una salus victus.



Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake Manifold, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

Ya I'm sure those were with the stock head. Those marks were made when we first installed the cam gears about two years ago. I am sure of it since I was there, and it was the first 2gnt they ever worked on.