I've decided on keeping my car NT. So I need to build up my motor (although my next mod will be getting an auto tranny cooler). I have an extra tb and intake manifold that I'm going to bore/port. But what should I do with the head. I've heard all the things that you guys do but I really don't know what they actually do. So ideas and xtra info is much appreciated.

Skrilla, could you please send me some info on the stroker kit? Thanks.


-Avenger
99 Eclipse RS

I don't know nearly as much about this as Skrilla, but I went through this with him. Because that is my plan as well. You want a high compression motor, soimething along the lines of 11.5:1 Skrilla actually had a motor running at like 12.5:1 with no detonation. You can bump compression by building the bottom end with high compression pistons, or mill the head to get the same effect. If you really want balls go with crane cams high compression drag grind when available... June? Get a 5 angle valve job with porting and polishing to the head passages. Port match everything! You may get people that suggets a 7 or 9 angle valve job, what talkign wqith Skrilla this is a bad idea. You will take too much off our head and loose structural integrity of the head itself. The stroker would be outstanding. I don't know if this ever materialized or not. I know I was very interested but I just don't have the money to do it now. Skrilla has the numbers and they are in the archives of this board with what to mill to get what compression, if you go that route. Which is what I plan. I want to stay with stock compression pistons, build the bottom end with forged parts etc. Stroker would be great. But use the milling of the head with a thin .022" HG to bump compression. If I get tired of NA or want to put a turbo on to put that final nail in the coffin. I'll go with the thicker HG drop compression slightly but stick have some low end from the higher compression and run lower levels of boost to suppliment the high end. When you're pushign power like this your trans will need some beafing. You said auto right? Level Ten and get it overhauled, unless you'd like to do the swap to 5 speed(I recommend). Maybe by then we'll have an AFX ECU for us, and you can beaf the valvetrain, springs, valves, etc. and run red line to like 8200rpm or so. With an S-AFC for fine tuning etc... you would have a monster. Skrilla is a better resourcethan me but ifyou have any questions I will do my best to help out. I wish I had the funds available to lead the way into beastly NA ;-)

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), TSW Blade 17x7.5 (need tires)

Pardon my ignorance guys ... but what is actually invovled in milling the head and how does it lead to higher compression, same question for new piston heads. And what exactly does a 5 angle job do? I hear this stuff all the time but I really don't have a good understanding for it though.


-Avenger
99 Eclipse RS Paperweight w/ busted tranny in SATAN's lair :(

Alright lets see if I can make some sense of this for you. (mind you I haven't had my coffee yet...)

Compression ratio is how much you compress the fuel/air mxture in the combustion chamber. To raise compression you need to decrease the volume of the combustion chamber. You can do this by getting pistons that take up more volume, so the tops come up farther on these, and occupy volume that had been open before. You can also do this by milling the head (shaving "layers" off the bottom of the head) This has the same effect, it reduces the volume of the combustion chamber.

For valve jobs... the number angle is basically the number of passes and number of bits they use to smooth out the valve seats. so for a five angle valve job they start with a very broad brit and grind the bottom and get to narrower bits as they take off material. This creates a smooth transition for the air to flow through and opens up a bigger area for the air flow through so you can pack more air in the combustion chamber. You do have to watch it though because doing this can lower compression because you are increasing the volume in the combustion chamber. So in conjunction with the valve job you should get the head milled anyway, just to even things out a bit.

I hope this helps.

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), TSW Blade 17x7.5 (need tires)

Thanks for the info Michael,

So my plan will be to shoot for 11:1 compression. By milling the head, thinner headgasket I should be able to acheive that. But which would be better new pistons or milling the head.

As for my current state of things (after my tranny gets fixed), I plan on getting a better tranny cooler, boring my TB, porting my intake manifold.

As for the higher compression, what sort of fuel concerns am I looking at? As long as the A/F ratio is ok all is good right?


-Avenger
99 Eclipse RS Paperweight w/ busted tranny in SATAN's lair :(

When milling the head, its a good idea to get cam gears. By bringing the head closer to the block, you can alter the timing. Cam gears let you adjust things properly, as well as giving benefits in their own right. You'll have the motor all apart to get it milled anyways...

juan

Yeah Cam gears aren't a bad idea, the timing will be slighty off the more you mill. Forged internals are never a bad idea, and will stand up better to abuse. I like the milled head with stock compression forged pistons, because if I think I'm running too high a compresion I can put a thicker gasket in and drop compression. Running high compression I wouldmake sure ot stay with 93 octane. As you run higher compression the chances for knocking increase and the high octane will combat this.

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), TSW Blade 17x7.5 (need tires)

Thanks for the info michael & juan,

cam gears were in my plan somewhere down the road so now I know. What about the rods ... will they be able to handle the extra compression or should they be replace also (same time as changing the piston heads)?

As far as fuel goes ... S-AFC and more powerful fuel pump enough or will there be a need for bigger injectors because they will be maxed out?

What sorts of places can mill the head for a decent amount of money? What should I look for in a shop?


-Avenger
99 Eclipse RS Paperweight w/ busted tranny in SATAN's lair :(

Road Race Engineering did the work for eclipse 804. Howell Automotive does porting work. So does CNNP Racing, they do a lot of Neon stuff, but same engine and they do stuff for eclipse. There are a few others I can't remember right now. I'm weary of taking the head somewhere to a shop who is not familiar with our motor, so especially if they think we have a NT version of the Turbo, don't give them yoru head. For a basic porting job your should probably pay $500-$600. For something with a little more prting and poilishing more number of valve job you're probably looking closer to the $900 range.

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), TSW Blade 17x7.5 (need tires)

Thanks again Michael,

I will probably contact someone so I can get my head milled when I have enough money put together. I'll probably replace the head gasket then too and might as well get forged rods and pistons. That'll be a heafty sum of money there.

I'll get my bored TB back this week so I'll have to do some port matching to the intake manifold if it doesn't match up too well.


-Avenger
99 Eclipse RS out of the shop!! :)

I think the site Skrilla gave me was www.headgasket.com or somethinglike that, they have the copper .022" HG for our car at about $125.

Don't worry about the manifold matching mine was fine, the TB gasket did need a little trimming though. BTW get a new gasket from the dealer. Mine had 25k on it when I did the swap and it came out torn, it's only a few bucks get one from SATAN. You wil need to trim a little I did it with a sharp knife and scrapped awaythe edge till it matched the TB.

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), TSW Blade 17x7.5 (need tires)

How much material would you have to take off to get to 11.5:1 compression?


-Avenger
99 Eclipse RS out of the shop!! :)

For a 11.5:1 compression ratio you need the copper HG from www.Headgasket.com and mill from the bottom of the cylinder head .050 thousands of an inch. That is quite a bit but our max is .089. The gasket you want is .022". Timing WILL be off with that much of a mill so you will want cam gears, but your car will still run w/o. To keep it simple you don't need new pistons for the higher compression. At that a high compression I would strongly recommend drag camshafts, the HC drag cams are even better, except that you have to wait until they are both released. I ran 12.5 compression for about 20 minutes and the stock HG was destroyed but the engine could take it. I don't think it is good that high for dailey driving. If you have the HC pistons, 95 octane, and the camshafts then 12.5:1 is fine for daily driving. I even know of 2 race cars running those same figures with 94 octane gas and our 2L 420 with 225HP at the wheels. They are also pushing a 9 grand redline and revised tranny for high speeds(like 1st gear 70 2nd gear 90 etc etc.). So we can do it. If you really want the stroker info then you gotta email me


Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology: The Only Replacement for Displacement"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

I bow to Skrilla... NA master. he he, good to have you back and posting buddy.

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), TSW Blade 17x7.5 with Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17 on the way!!!

...glad to be back and in 1 piece - and missed:)

Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology: The Only Replacement for Displacement"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

Here is the info for Road Race Engineering porting and head work.

Head milled, 5 angle intake, 3 angle exhaust valve job, hot soak (forgot what it was exactly called), and some other necessary stuff is all included for $325.

Mild head porting is $200 which is what I got.
Additional porting for $200 more.
Even more porting for $200 more.
So the most you pay is $600 is you want a LOT of porting done. Our heads have a lot of unsmooth edges and are really small.

I am happy with the work, and plan to get it dyno'd this weekend. If you want to send your head to RRE, just email mike@roadraceengineering.com and tell him Marcus with the 2gnt sent ya.

eclipse804@hotmail.com
http://www.importvenom.com
Import Venom

It's an acid bath or acid dip to clean out all the coolant and oil passages along with claening off the surfaces for porting.

Thanks for the info Marcus, this will help all of us who plan on doing this in the future(me being one of them :-) )

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather Filters, 55mm TB, GS-T Muffler, FU/RU/RL STBs, Front NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., Red Silicone Hose Kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Intake manifold 4 porting, Rear Motor Mount Ins. RRE FL Tie Bar(Well Almost), TSW Blade 17x7.5 with Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17 on the way!!!

No prob, I'm getting it dyno'd this weekend so I'll let everyone know how it goes. I also had the car dyno'd a while ago before all this, so I'll have baseline numbers to compare with...

eclipse804@hotmail.com
http://www.importvenom.com
Import Venom

That's cool. I'm curious to see the numbers you'll have. Especially since I'm another person planning on doing this :)


-Avenger
99 Eclipse RS out of the shop!! :)