i dont ussualy post plans for a car but i got bored in my econ class, came up with a list and realized i didnt know too much about a few of them. well here is the list.


gauges (duh)
S-AFC (to get it perfect)
All suspension parts
p/p intake
p/p head (would 1mm bigger valves help or hurt?)
Cams/gears (whenever they come out, also springs, retaianers, lifters, rockerarms)
12.5 compression (could this be done on pump gas? seems like i heard it could)
AFX ecu (depending on how many features it has may not need a S-AFC, but at least for the rpm)
weight redux (cf hood, f.g. fenders, all the other stuff)
Corbin's Intake spacer
Egr blockoff (does this accually get you any power?)
Full balance
Lighten crank (any body tried this?)
Dry sump oiling (i dont know how it makes more power, some one educate me. also is it possible?)
Stroker kit (when ever that makes it)
AFX race udp
Ram air set up of some sort
Straight pipe
clutch/flywheel
Slicks/skinnys
ignition

i told you i got bored. just seeing what you guys thought about this. some of those things like the dry sump, i'm not sure if i've seen on here. could you spin a stroker up to 8500rpm? also since corbin's spacer makes the intake manifold longer it helps low end torque, but does that in turn hurt high rpm performance. and if thats the case, then you could theoreticly mill off some of the manifold to get the lenght back to normal, right??? i know all this kinda sound like a newbie, but oh well



weapon-r intake
greddy headers
apex-i n1 catback
afx udp
energy suspension
motor mounts
cf altezza tail lights
bored t/b
magnecore wires
hotter plugs

Copying me huh ;) About the stroker if you want to be innovative we could push someone to make a de-stroker kit. This would allow more rpm without overstressing the engine, can we say S2000(10,000 rpm almost). 12.5 can be done, but I think you might need ignition retard(or just run higher octane gas). http://www.extreme420a.com/index2.html there is a lightened crank here. Dry sump uses a seperate oil tank, it weighs more, but keeps the oil flowing during high g manuevers(mainly good for road racers)I guess it could keep it off the crank during acceleration I'm sorta for the environment so I dont see the need for a straight pipe, unless you change it at the track. I don't know if theres enough material to mill the mani but you could make your own short runner mani. Sounds good, glad to see more non-turbo lists. If the engine is balanced you could probably run the stroker kit at 8500 with no problems. Also don't just keep this list, make changes or additions through time for the best setup. Damn this was long, sorry.

all-motor has been around for a while.not copying, just thinking. if the copying thing were true then you would be copying from fast420a, vx100, and Jake. want more opinions please.




weapon-r intake
greddy headers
apex-i n1 catback
afx udp
energy suspension
motor mounts
cf altezza tail lights
bored t/b
magnecore wires
hotter plugs

No you copied my list(sorta), haha copying all-motor, a t model with a turbo.

whenever you do a engine buildup for allmotor you are going to have very similar parts and ideas.




weapon-r intake
greddy headers
apex-i n1 catback
afx udp
energy suspension
motor mounts
cf altezza tail lights
bored t/b
magnecore wires
hotter plugs

First off isn't the S2000 a 2.0 just like our car? If so, why would we need a destroker kit? We should be ok with an aftermarket ignition, big cams and springs with titanium retainers right?

Second off where can I find a nice high volume, high flowing intake manifold that accepts all my stock lines, hoses, and attachments? Also I would want A big ass throttle body. I hear of civics running 70mm throttle bodies on their daily drivers.

>First off isn't the S2000 a 2.0 just like our car?

Yes.

If so,
>why would we need a destroker kit?

A stroker kit is helpful because the more air you can put in an engine, the more power you can make. If we make our engine go from 2.0L to 2.2 liter, that is .2 liters more air we are able to fit in the engine. Plus the main thing we are gaining from the additional displacement is torque.

We should be ok with an
>aftermarket ignition, big cams and springs with titanium
>retainers right?

That will help more.

>
>Second off where can I find a nice high volume, high flowing
>intake manifold that accepts all my stock lines, hoses, and
>attachments?

No one makes one, you would have to make a custom one.

Also I would want A big ass throttle body. I
>hear of civics running 70mm throttle bodies on their daily
>drivers.

Again, same thing, it would have to be custom made.


________________________________________________________________________________________
current status - No 3rd Gear synchro


http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/
www.Fast420A.com

>i dont ussualy post plans for a car but i got bored in my
>econ class, came up with a list and realized i didnt know
>too much about a few of them. well here is the list.

It's good to make a list and plan things out ahead of time, but WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS???? Do you want a street all motor car, a racing only all motor car? Going all out with that list will almost certainly make your car race only. It would be a chore to use on the street.

>gauges (duh)
always a good idea, more gauges are better than less, as long as you aren't spending you time looking at them instead of driving :)

>S-AFC (to get it perfect)
I think it's a good mod, even with the AFX chip (if it ever comes into being)

>All suspension parts
not really engine mods but still important

>p/p intake
Again, good choice, but I wouldn't go TOO killer on the port for the street. Replace with one of those shortened aftermarket jobs or the 4 throttle body setup if you are going to race only, just do the port and polish on the stocker for the street.

>p/p head (would 1mm bigger valves help or hurt?)
For racing and very high rpms it would help, for the street it would not be a good idea. I think it was fast420A (or someone on the list, I remember commenting on a post about it) who can attest to the fact that porting the head for street use was a bad idea.

>Cams/gears (whenever they come out, also springs,
>retaianers, lifters, rockerarms)
Even just the cam gears help, just ask RS_Guy, I think he got some gains from some cam gear tuning. I don't know if he posted it here, but I do remember seeing a post very recently on the now little used mailing list :)

>12.5 compression (could this be done on pump gas? seems like
>i heard it could)
Not sure about that myself, but I am sure 11.5 to 1 can be used on pump gas.

>AFX ecu (depending on how many features it has may not need
>a S-AFC, but at least for the rpm)
We'll see what the future holds, but the safc might still be useful for fine tuning even with the chip. Otherwise, it's something else for ignition timing adjustment.

>weight redux (cf hood, f.g. fenders, all the other stuff)
Less weight is better, except on the street I wouldn't go without the bumpers, if you plan on removing them.

>Corbin's Intake spacer
Our intake manifolds heat soak too much, so this could be very useful.

>Egr blockoff (does this accually get you any power?)
No, or if it does it's not enough to worry about (a few tenths of a HP?)

>Full balance
cha ching! $$$$ long term goal, I am sure, but needed for a full race setup

>Lighten crank (any body tried this?)
You just did with your UD pulley. It should help some but again, only really cost effective for a full race setup.

>Dry sump oiling (i dont know how it makes more power, some
>one educate me. also is it possible?)
Do you have enough money, $$$$, benjamins, bills, C notes? Then anything is possible. The dry sump would technically help with more power by keeping oil vapors and such from the sump from putting a drag on the crankshaft. It is more useful in keeping good oil flow for a track car. Probably too expensive to do for a drag race car, different story for road racing.

>Stroker kit (when ever that makes it)
It'd be nice to see the power increase on the stroker kit. That should help low end too.

>AFX race udp
Eh, just take the belts off when you race. (I haven't even done this yet, maybe someday I'll get around to it)

>Ram air set up of some sort
I don't know how effective it would be, but it should be cheap to set up.

>Straight pipe
For racing only, we don't want you getting a big fine for running without one now... :)

>clutch/flywheel
Clutch only if you put enough power to kill the stock one. Flywheel probably won't matter, ours isn't too heavy, and a lighter flywheel will make the car harder to launch

>Slicks/skinnys
Buy Hoosiers, not Nittos, Goodyears, or Mickey Tomphsons. Ask the autocross DSM guys (the REAL serious ones) and any good FSAE team which slicks they like the best, they'll say Hoosiers. They are sticker and ligher than other makes but damn expensive. But hey, you want to win or not????

>ignition
Apexi ITC if Mike_97RS, myself, or someone else can figure it out. Otherwise it's the AFX chip or some standalone setup.

>could you spin a stroker up to
>8500rpm?

Maybe, good question, sorry I don't know the answer to that one.

also since corbin's spacer makes the intake
>manifold longer it helps low end torque, but does that in
>turn hurt high rpm performance. and if thats the case, then
>you could theoreticly mill off some of the manifold to get
>the lenght back to normal, right??? i know all this kinda
>sound like a newbie, but oh well

Yes, increasing the runner length will tune lower in the rpm range, but if that spacer is, say only 1/2 of an inch thick I wouldn't worry about it.

great help thanks for taking the time to answer all those questions. yea i know alot of those thing will cost some serious bucks. no goals as of the moment. i was just thinking in class. it seems like people say that our car will never be very fast all motor, granted they're not going to run 10's but i havent seen anybody that has done everything to get the times down. your second fastest and you havent do all that much. you must have gotten some great launches;) long term goals a 1g gsx in the 11's (street) and a 2gnt (n/a) in the low 15's. i'm not saying that i will have this low 15 second car within the year or even 5, just wasting time in macro :)




weapon-r intake
greddy headers
apex-i n1 catback
afx udp
energy suspension
motor mounts
cf altezza tail lights
bored t/b
magnecore wires
hotter plugs

>>>Ram air set up of some sort
>>>>>>>>I don't know how effective it would be, but it should be cheap to set up.


yup:7 u can do it

well, the 60' with that 15.589 run was "only" 2.30 seconds. My best has been a 2.231 60' time. There was no traction that day, so I'm guessing that with some more traction I'd already be in 15.4's or at least a little closer.

Well I guess I'll post my final setup as I see it today.

-2.2L stroker or 2.4L swap (depending on what's available and cost with both - this is one of the last steps)
-Crower Cams - working with them on these, hopefully be out soon
-Cam Gears
-Undercut valves, stock size
-Valve springs
-PT Cruiser Valvetrain
-Mild port and polished head; gasket mtched then just smoothing the passages
-12.5:1+; 12.5:1 can be run on premium ump gaswith the stock ECU, the stock ECU doesn't adance timing enough for detonation to be a problem. With AFX you'll need some form of timing retard i.e. Ignition box w/ retard or APEXi ITC. With a stand alone fuel system this pont is mute since you can set timing.)
-UDP
-Lightened flywheel/clutch
-Quad Throttle body setup, either Electromtive Neon set w/ modification or full custom with quad Hillborn Throttle bodies. At this point there will be a need for bigger injectors, size to be deturmined... at least 24lbs.
-Electromotive TEC3
-Full 2.5" exhaust; 2.5" cat-back, 2.5" High Flow Cat, Modified collector on header and 2.5" downpipe
-Crane Ignition Amp and MSD Coil Pack
-Weight Reduction = Very Important!!!!
-Quaif Limited Slip Differential (probably the last step, should get differential pin welded in the mean time.
-Of ocurse abetter suspension for the hole shot will be on by the end to.

That's the general idea, a few on the board knew the plan but here it is... for all to see. So now all I need is a real/steady job and a several thousand dollars.

"Hopefully" By July I'll be around 10.5:1 or 11.5:1 compression with cams and some headwork. Timing control would be very nice to play with as well. Like Todd said I'm looking into the ITC, but unlike Todd, I'm not looking at it in a box in my garage. ;-)

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein



Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, Hooker 4-1 Stepped Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: Ported/Polished Intake Manifold 1/2, Rear disc brake conversion kit w/, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

>Modified collector on header

Hmmm, you wouldn't happen to be borrowing a few of my "crazy ideas" would you???

>"Hopefully" By July I'll be around 10.5:1 or 11.5:1
>compression with cams and some headwork.

Planning on alot of work in the near future, eh? Well, it won't do you any good if you can't get that 2nd to 3rd shift right ;)

Timing control
>would be very nice to play with as well. Like Todd said I'm
>looking into the ITC, but unlike Todd, I'm not looking at it
>in a box in my garage. ;-)

Hey! That box is UNDER MY BED, NOT IN MY GARAGE, get it right if you're going to criticize :P

>>Modified collector on header
>
>Hmmm, you wouldn't happen to be borrowing a few of my "crazy
>ideas" would you???

Huh? I just need it cut and widened out to 2.5"

>
>>"Hopefully" By July I'll be around 10.5:1 or 11.5:1
>>compression with cams and some headwork.
>
>Planning on alot of work in the near future, eh? Well, it
>won't do you any good if you can't get that 2nd to 3rd shift
>right ;)

Ouch.. you wound me, and I think I found m,y problem with third... I hope.

>
>Timing control
>>would be very nice to play with as well. Like Todd said I'm
>>looking into the ITC, but unlike Todd, I'm not looking at it
>>in a box in my garage. ;-)
>
>Hey! That box is UNDER MY BED, NOT IN MY GARAGE, get it
>right if you're going to criticize :P

Outstanding... at least I'm not thge only one with parts in my room!!!!

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein



Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, Hooker 4-1 Stepped Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: Ported/Polished Intake Manifold 1/2, Rear disc brake conversion kit w/, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

When it comes to the collector, I though you were talking about my idea of running the crankcase breather to the collector on the header

I've also got new floormats in my room too :)

Well, Todd do you think it would really create a noticeable power increase? The theory sounds nice but would it be worth it?

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein



Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, Hooker 4-1 Stepped Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: Ported/Polished Intake Manifold 1/2, Rear disc brake conversion kit w/, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

http://www.groupbuycenter.com/buy.asp?row_id=4916

I cant undrstand why you guys wouldnt want a turbo kit. Its way easier and cheaper to go fast with a turbo. It makes cool sounds too. Going all motor might be different but it takes to much effort and money to get the kind of performance you can get with a simple stage 2 turbo system. I wouldnt even waste my time thinking about making a 2gnt all motor. Sorry if this offends some of you all motor guys but its just my opinion. I love turbos!!!!!!!!

>but its just my opinion.

Exactly. Thats your idea. They know about the turbo kit, believe me.

Todd, Michael, Kyle, Jake check out that groupbuycenter url I posted up above. Werent you just talking about something like that Michael?

All-motor gives unique sounds of its own. Quad-TB's give a great sucking sound and also give more engine noise. High compression and cams gives that great idle sound and WOT roar. If it gets more rpms, like 8500-9500rpm then it can just wail. Put it all together and you have an audible medly ;). Turbos make good sounds too, but some like blowoff only happen at certain times. Some people like a challenge too and some people take the easy way out, it may take us longer, but we worked to get there. We won't be able to make 300+ hp, but we aren't searching for that, its the experience. I'm hoping I'm not the only all-motor person who thinks this, but it appears to be the only apparent reasons. Man this was long, sorry :). So if I wuld rather hear a champ car with a turbo(last years of course) or an F1 car, defenitly the F1. Who can deny this sound http://www.zx-12r.org/Funny%20Stuff/Insanity%20Test.htm lol

Hm...that header looks very tempting. Will a Neon header work on a 2GNT? I've never really looked into it before.

No, header is on the back of the engine so the plumbing is all wrong. It will bolt up, since the bolt patterns on the head are the same... but you'll run the piping right into the radiator.

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein



Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, Hooker 4-1 Stepped Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: Ported/Polished Intake Manifold 1/2, Rear disc brake conversion kit w/, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

Well Said Brent.

What I was talking about on my colector was: The header I hae now comes to the collector and reduces down to 2" to match to stock piping. I want to cut the flange where it bolts to the downpipe. cut the collector back a short amount and expand the collector to 2.5" and get a new downpipe made with 2.5" mandral bends and a flex section.

Turbo's are cheaper performance yes, no one will deny the power capability you an get out of a turbo. We've all seen Bill's numbers at the track. I like the sound of a turbop spooling up, but I also love the osund of a nice lope at idle from some aggressive cams, the roar of exhaust not quieted down by a compressor wheel. The throttle responce once you press the gas, you go, no spool up time, even if it is only a second.

Why build an all motor 420A? Because it's there, because I can, and I'm not a afraid.

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein



Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, Hooker 4-1 Stepped Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: Ported/Polished Intake Manifold 1/2, Rear disc brake conversion kit w/, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

Hmmm. Yeah, I understand the engines are turned about backwards, but I have a question. Michael, did you go to the link? The header doesnt include a downpipe all the way to the cat. Its just cut off, much like that of the HRC manifold, you adapt it to your stock downpipe. I'm wondering if it'll match up. From looking at it, I dont see why it wont, maybe.

Yes I went to the link. I also owna Neon so I know how the piping runs I think the angle in th epicture is decieving. On the Neon the stock exhaust manifold and any headers come out of the head bend down the firewall and the angle back to meet with a short section of pipe just before the Cat. The only way I see it working is if this header cam out bend down and that was it, but I think it does have the curve toward what would be the rear of the Neon is towards our radiator. Not seeing the part in person I can't say for sure no. But I don't think it would work.

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein



Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, Hooker 4-1 Stepped Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: Ported/Polished Intake Manifold 1/2, Rear disc brake conversion kit w/, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

Yeah, I saw that bend as well. *shrug* Oh well. :)

Well, for me I just want to see what I can do with the car all motor, just for the hell of it. I'll get to 14's without breaking the bank.

I know I won't be "fast" but who cares? According to whose defenition of "fast"? I don't have to satisfy anyone else's defenition of wheter my car is fast or not, or if the money I spent ws "wasted" or if my time was "wasted." Hell, almost every 4g63 owner will say it is a waste of time and money to put a turbo on a 420a.

There will always be people faster and slower than me, so I just set my own goals.