Rebuilt 2.4. New rings and rod bearings.
Buitl blah blah.
I primed the pump with breakin lube. Did the first start, sounded good. Took it up to 2.5k ish rpm.for a bit did fine. Changed oil. Tuner came. Tuned my idle etc, then we stated tuning for 9psi. Running msns full stamd alone.

Problem: im geting a weird knock from seems to be bottom end, hard to tell, when i creep into the 3k~4k area. Then goes away. I cam hear while driving (no boost) and while parked and i move the TB. I had a friend press clutch in and rev it, still there, so i think that eliminates the tob. Oil press has been fine, no real impact to performance that i can tell.. i havent boosted since b.c i want to find out what it is. The tuner did something woth the timing in that are to see if it was spark knock ornsomething to that effect, and playing with thebspark didnt seem to have an impact on the noise. Just change my oil after, and found no shavings. Im going to tear apart the filter and investigate further.

Any one have any ideas?
Thank you.

What is your AFR at said rpm?

Id have ro look at the logs but certainly not lean, and it would also depend on load. With little to no loads its like 13.3 area in the 3k rpm range. I dont think its knocking from afr. Im also runing 91 octane. 93 is scarce here. Plus it happens out of boost, im sure it happens in boost to but im sure im in the mid to low 12.xs in that rpm when in boost. Id again have to chrck the log.

I was just asking because my car made some scary noises even at light load with 17:1 AFRs. That was before the tune though.

Piston slap or an incorrect tolerance.

its pretty loud,, it does sound like slap, but its really loud.. ill try to get a clip of it.

what tolerance would be out?

Could be a few different ones, once you get a video of it we can hopefully isolate it a bit more. Does it do it at full operating temp or only when its hot or only when cold?

I havent doen it it while cold, but it does it at op temp and while hot.

heres a VId
http://youtu.be/8q4-ace1vCM

Still does it Op temp or cold.

Tore apart the Oil filter from initial start. Found very little particles. Looked really nice.

Took apart the oil filter that was on during the tuning process, and found this...Im not sure WTF could be this color!?

That would be your bearings. Time to pull the pan and see what happened. I assume you check all of your bearing clearances

Interesting, i didnt think they were that color.. I had a shop assymble my bottom end. Im thinking that under "normal" condtions, their work was fine, but wne i applied boost, the bearing went bye bye. Would this be due to a sloppy job by them? Not like they will do anything bout it, just want to know so i can go else where.. At this rate, with all that material gone.. what do you think the chances of the crank still being good are.. Im plan on working on it to night and atleast getting the pan pulled. Puled the VC and so far everything looks good up top, i havent removed the cams tho.

Yep, bearings. Pull the pan and hope you haven't blued the crank or a rod.

Its very hard to say what caused this, could have been improper bearing clearance, bad machine work, or an oiling issue with the motor itself. I would contact the shop and see if they have some type of warranty on the motor. Running boost would not have caused this issue.

How would I be able to tell if i blued the crank or a rod? Im thining it (the journal) would turn blue b/c of the friction/ heat?


As for oiling:
Bal shafts removed and the holes plugged
The tuner is Erik from ASP. I/He didnt hear any pinging or issues, thats why im so surprised : (
Oil press guage is in the car, i dont see a loss at all. Start up is !80 psi, Idle is ~20-30 Psi. running 5w 20

Oil setup: Remote filter to the pan (connects directly to Oil pump). oil pump is a TKMS -14 SRT oil pump.
I also have IJ crank scraper/Baffles, as well as a DCR head oil restrictor. The car had 0 miles on the build. Just the intila start and a rev to 2.5K after operating temps. Then i changed the oil. and at that point the filter was really clean.

So, either this guy is in your oil pan....


Or you got trash in the oil, most likly from original build, or a tolerance is out of spec.... unfortunatly the only way to know is to pull the pan and inspect. I have seen flakes, albiet smaller, but flakes non the less in a fresh motor from break in. Esp with a new turbo on a new motor.

^ Correct, but i had already ran the motor once to get the trash out. I checked that filter, and there were some particles, but nothing like this, or with the same makeup. Im thinking a sloppy job was done when they assymblued and did the machine work b.c it ran like a champ untll it saw load. but im dropping the pan. i hope that dude with the hammer isnt in there.. lol

Rod bearing in # 3 was toast. and they all looked a little smeared.

How i primed: Put a leaf spring juice ton of greas in the oil pump, i tool it apart and did this , then spun by hand to keep feeing it thru. Installed. Packed the PU. Filled the oil filter with ~3/4 Qt of oil. Filled pan. With No spark or fuel cranked it a few times till i saw pressure. Hooked fuel/spark up. ran . lik i mentioned above, the filter from this time looked very clean.

I took it back to the orginal machine shop.. they said it was a dry start. i then explained how i did it , then they agreed it was a good start, and now they are un sure what happend. He said my rods might be out of round (they are crowers). They assymbled the bottom end, not sure but one would think they would have measured somehting like that..

Took to anothe rmachine shop, same deal, thought it was a dry start, but agree in my start method. They also noted that the orgianl machine shop may have toleance too tight. they are going to go thru the specs and see where it is now, and hopefully be able to prove or disprove it was the orgianl machine shops fault. They both agreed it didnt look like detonation killed it.

They will be going thru the whole thing and replace all the bearing and see if we can save the crank and rod. ts not to bad, so im confident they can save both parts...

can you post pics of the bearings?

I will get some when i visit the shop. i talked to them today, and they confirmed the tolerances were way to tight..

Now since its olny got a few miles, less then 75, im wondering if i can recoup some money from the other shop seeing as it was machined and assembled by them.

The crank now has to be machined to 3o over, but the shop has expressed concern about doing so on a performance build. so i got a new crank. now the Question.. with all the "clevites ruined my motor" talk going on, are they really a good option for us? or are mopar main and rod bearing what to go with? The machine shop (the good one) is a clevite heavy shop, they prefer steel backed then AL backed.. but Im torn on what to use..

Originally posted by streetlightning
I will get some when i visit the shop. i talked to them today, and they confirmed the tolerances were way to tight..

Originally posted by streetlightning
now the Question.. with all the "clevites ruined my motor" talk going on, are they really a good option for us? or are mopar main and rod bearing what to go with? The machine shop (the good one) is a clevite heavy shop, they prefer steel backed then AL backed.. but Im torn on what to use..

Many have used Clevite around here with no issues. Myself being one of them. Going on strong for over 7 years now. You even said it yourself that the confirmed tolerances were way too tight.

Now there might be some that will have some barking to do about Clevite, but the case here is not the manufacturer, it was the tolerances used when the motor was being assembled.

Im not blaming my problem on my bearings, i knowit was the tolerances, however.. How many build on here are recent? not many..Neons has over a dozen builds 2.0 and 2.4 that are recent, using clevites, and they have ended very badly very early with all simalar bearing issues.. some of which come from builders that have ben doing the 420a for a long time.. thats why i mentioned that. Its not just our platform, if you search around, within the last 6 mon, theres been alot of chatter about a clevite bad batch.. its getting machined right this time, but i want to make sure i dont blow that away with using a junk part... it seems like their QC has gone to shit. Idk. just what ive been reading. i know they have BEEN proven, but that doesnt mean that they are still good, or dont have an issue going on.

Originally posted by streetlightning
I will get some when i visit the shop. i talked to them today, and they confirmed the tolerances were way to tight..

No need for pics now. Size confirmation says it all

Originally posted by streetlightningHow many build on here are recent? not many.

I've used a couple of sets of Clevites in the last year or so

Originally posted by streetlightning within the last 6 mon, theres been alot of chatter about a clevite bad batch.. its getting machined right this time, but i want to make sure i dont blow that away with using a junk part... it seems like their QC has gone to shit. Idk. just what ive been reading. i know they have BEEN proven, but that doesnt mean that they are still good, or dont have an issue going on.

We have heard the "chatter" also. Current thought is that its a bad batch. BUT it is only chatter to us because we have had no problems (me and my buddy who owns the machine shop). BUT it may be the better part of valor to go OEM Mopar. Hate to make a decision based on just "chatter", but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Better safe than sorry. Go with the devil you know. And all that rot :P

I have Clevites in mine too and Im around 1100 miles into my motor. I would think something would have happenend by now.