I've been looking around for stuff to do my rebuild with and I found the Sealed Power pistons. The Neon guys have been using these for years on their low power turbo builds and all out NA builds. I called DSMgraveyard and they said that they have a customer running around 350hp with these pistons and stock reconditioned rods. Sound right? I've heard these rods will take about that much but its the pistons that give out. The sealed power pistons are made of the same material as the SRT4 piston.

Also, I found out that the rods from the 2nd gen Neon R/T are made of the same material as the SRT4 rods and will hold about the same.

Has anyone tried either the R/T rods or the Sealed Power pistons? I can get the pistons with reconditioned stock rods and hastings rings for $350. I'm looking to go 250-275hp with the stock rods and Sealed power pistons. My C/R will be around 9.6-9.8:1 so I still have some bottom end. I'll be using a MS full standalone to get a really good tune to be sure I don't get pre-det.

I know I could just go forged and be done with it but I'm trying to help out the community by trying low cost alternatives. So please, if you post, please post helpful information.

Our stock rods can't handle as much as the SP Pistons but im running SP pistons and reconditioned stock rods with cp turbo rings and clevite 77 bearings making 297whp. I've been running them for 2 years now with no problem. Just be sure to use some good rings and high Rev bearings. When i first bought my SP pistons the guy said they are a forged piston rated at 375hp and i heard our stock rods are rated at around 300

Originally posted by Gruff511
Our stock rods can't handle as much as the SP Pistons but im running SP pistons and reconditioned stock rods with cp turbo rings and clevite 77 bearings making 297whp. I've been running them for 2 years now with no problem. Just be sure to use some good rings and high Rev bearings. When i first bought my SP pistons the guy said they are a forged piston rated at 375hp and i heard our stock rods are rated at around 300

Awesome! Excatly what I needed to hear. Did you get the setup from www.thedsmgraveyard.com? Is it in your daily driver?

First off let me be clear on this (because on another site I have to be careful how I say this); dsmgraveyard is a big fat liar. Liar liar pants on fire. Horrible work, selling set-ups that aren't physically possible, selling parts that they do not have. Their "craftsmanship" blows. And they will lie to you. I have personally seen their work and it is horrible. I have personally talked to them about parts and set-ups that are not possible and they continued to advertise them in spite of knowing better. I know of two locals who bought some of their parts (4G63) and they were terrible. One burnt valves within 100 miles. One was filled with media and blew his engine. I have seen the way they open up the end of a 1G rod to accept the 2g wrist pin (for 4G63) using a reamer in a drill press with the rod crooked on the table of the drill press. At one time, they had a bunch of employees quit because the owner was a liar liar pants on fire. One of them started a thread on another site noting all the lies and problems (thread has since been taken off that site). He even substantiated some of his points (you are welcome to search on dsmtuners for more negative information on them).

So their pants are on fire. IF you were to buy from them, you would get no sympathy from me. What you would get is a "Nah nah I told you so!" (plus I imagine a lot more). Are you getting the idea that I don't like them? Why? Because they are predators who prey on the ignorance of people who just want to have some fun with their car.

Anyway, on to the rods. Generically our rods are considered good to a little over 200whp (you can search out neons.org as well if you like for further verification), I personally think they should go to around 250whp. Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to actually run them and show this is true, so I wouldn't say for sure. But it is certainly my opinion that they should.

As for bringing them over that, You should considered yourself lucky if you are up by 300whp and having no problem. Good for you (and no denigration intended. As a matter of fact, that only stregthens my case for 250whp) but I would think that 250whp max would be the number you're looking at.

Of course, with all that being said, we should actually be looking at torque, lol. But I'm presuming that we are dealing with torque numbers that are reasonably close to what most set-ups would have at 250whp (in the low 200's tops).

Just a little food for thought.

I've read the reviews and that is why I asked if he got the package from them. I've spent a lot of time on www.neons.org and also talked to people that have run the HAHN kit and if you can keep pre-det at bay then the rods will take about 300whp. It's the torque down low that kills them, I've heard that 225-250 ld/ft will bent rods when those numbers are seen at low rpms.

Originally posted by caseyrock
I've read the reviews and that is why I asked if he got the package from them. I've spent a lot of time on www.neons.org and also talked to people that have run the HAHN kit and if you can keep pre-det at bay then the rods will take about 300whp. It's the torque down low that kills them, I've heard that 225-250 ld/ft will bent rods when those numbers are seen at low rpms.

I'd agree with that assesment

Originally posted by bullettdsm
First off let me be clear on this (because on another site I have to be careful how I say this); dsmgraveyard is a big fat liar.

This. If you paid any attention to their site they said they "figured out to run the Neon pistons" over winter 2010. Bullshit. Same piston, and Neons have been using SOHC pistons in DOHC motors for years.

Originally posted by caseyrock

Awesome! Excatly what I needed to hear. Did you get the setup from www.thedsmgraveyard.com? Is it in your daily driver?



No i did not get mines from dsmgraveyard. i got mines years ago from some random website and at the time no one had heard of them but i just got them because it was all i could find at the time. But yes they are used in my daily driver.
My rods probably have lasted so long because my turbine housing on my turbo is HUGE and i dont start building boost till about 3k so no low end torque and i never go past 5500rpm lol

I gotcha. I'll be using a HAHN s16g on my automatic daily. I've found the pistons on Summit for $26 a piece.

Can't go wrong with summitracing but I recommend maperformance.

Noticed you mention you're automatic.
Can you post up a dyno video and in car/Idle video, and also your MS map.

I'll check them out. I don't have anything yet, it's just planning for the winter build.

IMO if your going to be building the motor why not to it right? with forged brand name internals. It will benefit you in the long run, just my thinking.

Originally posted by JoshDSM
IMO if your going to be building the motor why not to it right? with forged brand name internals. It will benefit you in the long run, just my thinking.

Because 250 is already proven on stock blocks that haven't been rebuilt. It won't benifit me in the long run because these will perform just as well and last just as long at that power level.

Power and boost is addicting, your going to want more, so that means twice the work.

I avoid summit, but only because then I have to pay state sales tax =P.

Back on topic, people need to be more aware of what "this part can handle Xwhp/Xhp" means, because that is just a generalization. For example, there are different stresses between a 300hp NA motor and a 300hp turbo charged motor, guess which one puts more stress on the rods (in general). Not to mention stress caused from what you plan on revving it out to, TQ, TQ location and the power band, rod bolts and overall driving habits all play a role in what a rod can handle/rod failure. So be careful with the, can this part handle X hp, especially if you are pushing its limits, its not worth it, especially when a set of Eagles costs only a few hundred for insurance to save your motor.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
I avoid summit, but only because then I have to pay state sales tax =P. Back on topic, people need to be more aware of what "this part can handle Xwhp/Xhp" means, because that is just a generalization. For example, there are different stresses between a 300hp NA motor and a 300hp turbo charged motor, guess which one puts more stress on the rods (in general). Not to mention stress caused from what you plan on revving it out to, TQ, TQ location and the power band, rod bolts and overall driving habits all play a role in what a rod can handle/rod failure. So be careful with the, can this part handle X hp, especially if you are pushing its limits, its not worth it, especially when a set of Eagles costs only a few hundred for insurance to save your motor.

But then i have to throw another out $500+ for forged pistons. Not worth it to me.

Originally posted by JoshDSM
Power and boost is addicting, your going to want more, so that means twice the work.

I have a project mustang for that. This is just my daily beater with an auto, boss

Originally posted by caseyrock
I have a project mustang for that.

gtf off my forums!

Originally posted by Fotowntalon

Originally posted by caseyrock I have a project mustang for that.

gtf off my forums!

Roflmao...you beat me to it.

Don't hate :)There is nothing wrong with getting twice the power for half the price

twice the power, twice the weight, half as fast... ok now I am thread jacking.

Early 5.0 LX notchbacks are lighter than 1g gs-ts. Anyways has anyone used the AEM F/IC before? I can get one for about $200. It was used on a 96-98 civic so I know the harness is differnet. Could I just buy/make my own harness but still use that box? Or do I need a specific model. I've heard I can only run the 1910 (or 1901 I can't remember) model on my car

Have you contacted AEM regarding the usage of the product on the platform?

Originally posted by admin5
Have you contacted AEM regarding the usage of the product on the platform?

Actually since I posted that I went on their forums and searched around some. The 1910 with the lastest software update will do fine and NOT throw any codes. There was a problem with the earlier firmwares throwing injector codes. I could also use the one made for the SRT4 I believe.

Do not buy the fic. Its not meant for out platform and is worthless. My buddy installed it on his built 420a and it made it run very funny.

Well I've heard a few people have sucess with the newest version. A few neon guys run it too. I'm not sure what im getting yet though

Originally posted by caseyrock
Well I've heard a few people have sucess with the newest version. A few neon guys run it too. I'm not sure what im getting yet though

I hear the AEM FIC is very complicated to get it running quite right for out motor. There are a couple guys who got it running but had alot of problems.
If your trying to Tune your motor a bit then why not run megasquirt. the basic MS setup(MS1) will only run you a couple hundred. The basic setup would be to control fuel Only and let the stock Ignition system control spark(since your not running high boost)

I don't know a whole lot about MS. Can I just pick up any MS unit and hook it up or does it have to be specificaly for the 420a?

Read and search.
http://www.2gnt.com/?d=Megasquirt_Resources_and_Information

thanks

I cant believe a thread can go this long with absolute zero discussion on why you can or shouldnt run these pistons but that is what happens when you have low knowledge levels in your moderating ranks.

Bullett, you disappont me........you do already know what i am about to explain yet you are too lazy to do it! Less time porn = more time to teach your admin.


The Sealed power pistons DSM ASSYARD is listing for sale are Hyper Pneumatic.....yeah ok. maybe if they were for your air compressor at home.

The P/N is for the Hyper-Eutetic Sealer power pistons. As a rule of thumb and most machine shops will agree that these pistons should not be used for more than stock boost levels or in our case 8-10 pounds. Hyper-eutetics (often called Hyper for short) are awesome N/A piston becuase of low thermal expansion and low cost replacement, yet higher ability to withstand abuse COMPARED TO CAST PISTONS. They are not forged; Let me repeat that.....THEY ARE NOT FORGED PISTONS. They will not tolerate much detonation like a forged piston will.

HP ratings are for fools. The capacity of the pistons will depend on the type of power curve and torque curve your motor will produce. Detonation or pre-ignition will have varying affects based on heat and current conditions at the time of the event.

Sealed power does make actual forged pistons and they will cost more.

Special care needs to be observed with Ring Gap Clearance and Piston skirt clearance. You cannot use the same clearances you use on a stock motor. In fact on a lot of Hyper pistons it is recommended to increase the recommended side clearance by .5 thousanth. Example: KB recommends 0.015 - 0.020 side clearance N/A on a given 4.25" chrysler bore. It is advisable and many machine shops have found this out that you want to finish hone so that your clearance is 0.020-0.025.

In your situation........DD Auto car, your not going to want to exceed 10psi especially if your on a small turbo. The boost curve will be rapid enough that your going to have issues with the 3/4 hub in the trans maintainig its composure. 9.8:1 compression also recommends your not going to want to go above 10psi unless you want to deal with tuning and all sorts of other BS on a reliable car. Can it be done with a higher compression....Sure but on a daily? Why?

Save the time and money for your mustang, N/A torque out of the little 302 will far exceed whatever 99% of 2GNTs here will produce. Besides your going to want to ladder bar that little fox body. Spend your time wisely :)

STT

FYI. I just got off the phone with the tech support department with Sealed Power. He said the only thing they offer for our motor is a stock replacement. The part number for the stock replacement part is 853CP. I know others have said that the materials and coatings are the same as our stockers, but this phone call pretty much seals the deal. They offer no advantage in a rebuild unless you need another stock piston.

Gee I guess that is what I already posted........

Sorry Terry. I saw that you said the P/N was for hypers. I didn't realize that you were saying they were stock replacements. I was just trying to clarify that they weren't a mid level piston (between stock and forged). Your post was what caused me to call them. I had been contemplating these for a few months. Thanks to your input though, I've saved myself from wasting money and will just save for the forged internals instead.