Just doing a little search/reminiscing and thought I would do a few notes on the imortant modifications along the way to 200whp NA.





BOLT-ONS


Intake manifold:

Honestly, I would stick with the stock intake for your first bit of modding (a little polish and paint and she'll even look good in there). Porting it out and removing the humps (obviously, with a polish) would be helpful. But I don't think you want to break into the OBX or sheetmetal style intake until you get some internal mods working (ports and cams etc.). As well as, getting rid of the stock ECU for a tunable ECU.



Throttle body:

A lot of conversation here; 55?, 57?, 60? Well, one thing we do know is the stock sized is out. Another thing is to get to 200whp, you will need to have the 60mm. Everything else is an in between conversation (but important to note that whatever size you do get, be sure to match the intake neck appropriately).

And IMO (and I've proven this in comparison's while drag racing), the 60mm is the way to go.



Injectors:

Stock will bring you all the way but at some point near 180whp, you will be dealing with IDC's in the 80's. You may want to upgrade at that point (if you are running MSnS or some other tuner) so that you keep your IDC's down.



Fuel rail and lines:

Stock, stock, stock. The only reason you would alter these would be for the bling factor.



Fuel pump:

While I changed mine to a 190 Walbro, I don't believe it was necessary. I just did it for piece of mind in a problem I was searching out.



Crank Pulley

Go right ahead and change that out to a UDP. Not sure that its all necessary. But it will give you better throttle response and a lighter rotating mass.



Exhaust Mani:

Here is the biggest problem. I believe that you will NEED an LTH (yeah, I know I got the only one right now). I've always believed that it was key to get one for bigger power. I'm not so sure that any of the headers out there can make it, but your best bet would be to get a 4-1 with the biggest pipes that they use. I'm positive that the 4-2-1 style will not get there NA. The resonances will just not allow it.



Exhaust:

2 1/2" should be fine to get there. I did not use 3" until I was over 200whp and it added very little power. Though I don't believe a 3" will hurt you if you are just about 200whp, I don't think its necessary and it can only hurt you in the lower power stages.





INTERNALS



Cams:

Good ole Crower 2's are like a "Super Cam". These are so versatile. You can just bolt them on to your stock set-up and leave them in for your journey to over 200whp. In addition, you can use these on various turbo set-ups. They just got these cam numbers right.



Valves:

While I always liked using SS valves (stength and heat dissapation being a couple of big reasons), its not a must. But certainly, SS or not, stock sized valves will be all you need.



Valve springs:

While I'm a big proponent of taking the stock springs into higher rpm's, you would be advised to change springs to stronger springs, sooner than later. You will need them and, since they won't hurt you (they can only help), doing them earlier would be the better part of valor.



Head porting:

Always a question of what "level" of port necessary, but it is an important component of the trip to 200whp. The good thing is that you can start off with a not too agressive port, and work your way up as you gain modifications. Therefore, you can re-use the head as you go. IMO, a light port can help at any time (obviously using these terms very generically), but a heavy port will require a lot of supporting pieces.



Compression:

From the looks of some of the more recent dyno's, upping the comp seems to be a big help in getting power out of our cars (Stock ECU or otherwise). I know for a fact that you can up it to 10.9 comp on a stock ECU with pump gas no problems. I believe that 12.1-12.5 is doable on stock ECU with pump gas (just haven't done it).



Rods:

No problem with using stock rods up and over 200whp. But you will need to make them free floating if you up the comp (aftermarket forged piston requirements). But there is also no problem with just using Eagle rods (or the like).




TUNERS



STOCK ECU:

Throw it out, lol. Just dogs you down as you modify. In its attempts to get the numbers that the ECU is programmed to retain, it actually works against you as you mod.



AFX/ECU:

Great bolt-on ecu. Can come close to rivalling a professional tune on a "tunable" ECU. Can it take you to 200whp? Not sure, but it can certainly take you pretty far. Don't know if the timing maps would be aggressive enough to get there.



MSnS:

A full tunable ECU that will certainly take you as far as you want to go. Has been proven over and over again in various different set-ups (turbo included), to be the "tuner" of choice for our cars. would actually recommned installing this early on in the journey toward 200whp, just because of the before mentioned penchant for our stock ECU's to work against us.

Now you don't have to get rid of the stock ECU. You can use MSnS as a piggyback so that you can go back to your stock set-up for emissions etc. Also keep in mind that there are other tunable ECU's out there. Its just that MSnS seems to be the most used and cost effective.



SAF-C:

This is actually a useable tool on our NA cars. Can add power but it will also help with smoothing out areas of concern (idle, weak spots in the curve).



Just some "IMO" thoughts. Feel free to post up if you think I didn't address something or you got more to add. just kinda free thinking it here.

Oh god, Bullet is the SHIT! Ha, for real though man. I've been making my own list throughout my rebuild to stay N/A and still get it away from the stock "Pig" power.

You have just saved me a hell of alot of time, this is going in my bookmarks at the top, right underneath the FSM.

Thanks Mark once again!!! I'll have plenty of questions for ya.

Jeff.

Originally posted by 2ndGen-ElTalon
You have just saved me a hell of alot of time

Excellent Jeff, I'm really happy to hear it. Makes it worthwhile if it helps somebody out.

I know this is only my opinion and there is probably other ways to get there (Um, not counting spray and turbo, lol), but I kinda think its helpful.

Someone correct me if im wrong, but shouldnt we keep the stock ECU for some state/counties inspection purposes?

Originally posted by Smash_NDash
Someone correct me if im wrong, but shouldnt we keep the stock ECU for some state/counties inspection purposes?

Yes. Although if you're shooting for 200+ NA, you're probably going to end up with a race only car that isn't terribly friendly for street driving.

this is my goal, 200whp DD, granted I don't have to deal with emissions and will probably have my car taken to the max for DD ability.

Originally posted by Smash_NDash
Someone correct me if im wrong, but shouldnt we keep the stock ECU for some state/counties inspection purposes?

Originally posted by bullettdsm
You can use MSnS as a piggyback so that you can go back to your stock set-up for emissions etc.

You said intake, but you were referring to the intake intake manifold not the air intake. :p

Stock manifold with a simple port and port match I think will take you very far.

As for intake, much debate here, I personally believe you get what you pay for (up to a certain extent) I say a nice AEM will take you very far here as well, although when reaching the very last bit you may need for the 200whp mark, you may want to move into something more custom. Eventually I plan on talking to a fab shop. If/when I go to a 60mm TB I would like a pipe that starts at 60mm, then slowly envelops out (smoothly) into a 4inch+ pipe that would sit in the fog light spot. That is my current dream setup intake.

From an ECU standpoint I don't see the AFX taking someone much higher than the 175 point, I'm going to say in order to hit 200whp, MSnS is a must.

Only things I can think of adding/debating at the moment.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
You said intake, but you were referring to the intake intake manifold not the air intake. :p Stock manifold with a simple port and port match I think will take you very far. As for intake, much debate here, I personally believe you get what you pay for (up to a certain extent) I say a nice AEM will take you very far here as well, although when reaching the very last bit you may need for the 200whp mark, you may want to move into something more custom. Eventually I plan on talking to a fab shop. If/when I go to a 60mm TB I would like a pipe that starts at 60mm, then slowly envelops out (smoothly) into a 4inch+ pipe that would sit in the fog light spot. That is my current dream setup intake. From an ECU standpoint I don't see the AFX taking someone much higher than the 175 point, I'm going to say in order to hit 200whp, MSnS is a must. Only things I can think of adding/debating at the moment.

Hmm? How did I miss this whole post? Good point Steve. I wanna get back to this but I'm heading out somewhere. Looking at this part is appropriate to me.

Ok, I'm back. Yes the intake (not intake manifold) can restrict you in the upper rpm's. Its basically about having a large enough intake.

First off, I have dyno'ed a couple of different times with an intake vs without an intake. Hands down with an intake gives more power (I imagine its working like a velocity stack). It measured to a couple of whp, but it was consistant.

Now I have also gone SRI (short ram intake) vs CAI (Cold air intake). The SRI did better in the top end, but there was no noticeable difference in the curves etc., until the top end started getting choked off by the CAI (now this was a AEM CAI vs a homemade 3" SRI with a step down at the throttle body).

What do I believe was happening? I believe the size of the AEM pipe was chocking off the throttle body. Because the size of the pipe itself was just slightly larger than the 60mm throttle body that I had on there. I believe the length of it had something to do with choking it off too (but more importantly the diamater size). That's why I recommend when getting above 7k you should have a 3" SRI that is smoothly stepped down to your TB.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
If/when I go to a 60mm TB I would like a pipe that starts at 60mm, then slowly envelops out (smoothly) into a 4inch+ pipe that would sit in the fog light spot. That is my current dream setup intake.

Ah yes, this idea I liked so much that I had Peachy make me an intake like that. It basically goes from the throttle body to the front bumper area. At the throttle body it starts at 2 3/4" with a corner coupler to take it from the throttle body to the pipe. At that point it progressively opens up to 5" at the other end of the pipe. At that point, it opens up into an 8" velocity stack mounted within the bumper.

Now when I say progressive, the pipe itself is expanded out (by some kind of "water stretcher" machine that he used. It stretches out the diameter of the pipe not in increments, but like a horn. So that you end up with a giant long horn that has a velocity stack mounted up to the end.

This particular idea was measured to actually show positive pressure above 100mph. I never did it on my set-up, but Peachy said he measured it out on one of his.

My opinons:

Intake manifold: Our stock one needs help. Port and polish, extrude honed, matched to TB, all worth while.

TB: I've had no problems with the 60mm as my car sits now.

Pulley: Get one.

Exhaust: I've been running that GS-T and high flow cat, and while I could open it up some more, so far it seems ok. I don't think I'm at the point where it hurts yet, my torque curve is pretty good on the top end. Higher than this bigger will probably help. 3 inch anywhere before the 200whp mark seems excessive to me; you'll kill your exhaust gas velocity over too large of the RPM range.

Cams: I agree about the stage 2 crowers. More power, still good for driving around, and a nice lump at idle without being excessive.

ECU: that AFX does help, dyno proved it even when it was reset. But, the megasquirt is cheaper, so you shoudl go that route, IF (and it's a big IF) you can figure the damn thing out.

I found a UDP and they said it was for "turbo" eclipses even though I haven't put a turbo in my car yet can I still use it?

Go ahead and put it on, but you wont be able to run any accessory belts...

I almost feel like with this (and it should get stickied or put in the wiki) that we should have a sub forum, of how to lower your ET, but then again the only things to add is seat time/launch techniques, slicks, and weight shedding.