Background: Driving home one day my timing belt snapped. Apparently it decided to walk itself off the back side of the cam gears and ground itself down against the belt cover. The engine had a slight rod knock so I have decided that instead of just fixing the head and having to potentially drop the engine because I spun a bearing I will just do a full rebuild now.

I have been planning on building this car since I bought it 3 years ago, but being a self sufficient college student I am low on funds for such a project. I have been researching this for about 3 years, but have no actual hands on experience with building car engines (I have rebuilt snowmobile engines).

Goal: 275-350whp , street driven (no drag), Daily driver

Here we go… Please post suggestions you have for me. This post is mostly for my benefit, but maybe others will find useful information here as well

Here she is:



STEP ONE: Building the engine

Parts List:



Does everything look in order here?

13 JANUARY 2012 UPDATE:

Alright, well it has been a long time since I wrote anything about my build mostly because I have been extremely busy with work and school that documenting a car build wasn't at the top of my priorities list. I do not have a garage to work in, and have been building this car outside in the cold winter. The car is sitting in my girlfriend's parent's driveway and has been since July. Its hasn't exactly been fun but it has been a great learning experience. I appreciate all of the help from Dino, Tim, Dave, Zac, and anyone else who has been in the chat to answer my questions and make fun of me.

Here are the pictures I have taken so far throughout this:
99RedGS Turbo Build

Here are some if you are too lazy to click the link and look at the album:

These pictures are all work in progress so clamps, wiring placement, etc are not finalized in these.












This is what I ended up going with, The only ebay parts are the Intercooler and piping. I tried to spare no expense on getting quality parts:

Bolt-on Modifications:
- s20g Turbo
- Hahn Turbo Manifold w/ 3" v-Band Downpipe
- 3" Exhaust
- HKS SSQV4 Blow off valve
- 2.5" Intercooler Piping
- 30x10X3 Godspeed FMIC
- Aeromotive 1:1 AFPR
- Walbro 255
- 550cc RC Injectors
- 4 AN SS fuel return

Engine Management:
- MS1 v2.2 3bar Map
- LC-1 Wideband
- 30/30 Autometer Boost Gauge
- Autometer Oil Pressure Gauge

Engine Internals:
- 10.5:1 Wiseco Pistons 88mm
- Eagle H-Beam Rods
- Clevite 77 360 degree oil groove main bearings
- Clevite 77 rod bearings
- 2.7L Rockers
- PT Cruiser Lifters
- Mechanical Timing Tensioner
- PS and AC Delete
- BKR7E Spark Plugs gapped @ .030

Drivetrain Modifications:
- Southbend OFE3 Clutch
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What all I have completed for the build thus far:
- Built and mounted engine in the car
- Completed all of the plumbing with SS lines ( Oil feed, Fuel Return, Oil drain)
- PS and AC delete
- Made a bracket and mounted the FMIC
- Cut intercooler piping to fitment
- Installed OFE3 clutch (provided by Zac) with new TOB
- 90% of wiring completed for MS system
- Gauges mounted and wired up

What I have left to do:
- Fill with coolant
- Wire up the power for the MS
- Wire up and mount the LC-1 wideband
- Fabricate a 3" resonator to connect the DP to the "cat-back"
- Bleed the clutch
- Burn a base map to the MS ( I am waiting on my serial to usb adapter to arrive)
- Have a welder apply a bead around the intercooler pipes that I cut so I get a better seal
- Plumb the vacuum tubing
- Mount AFPR (I accidently made my return line a little shorter than I wanted to I'm still problem solving this)
- Figure out a PCV system to prevent pressurization of the crankcase
- Install a new alternator
- Prime the oil pump before initial startup
- Rebuild the engine because I'll probably blow it up since I had no idea what I was doing on this build...

One problem I have is that the way the turbo is clocked the OEM cooling fan doesn't fit, and the A/C fan rubs the coupler. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do for this just yet. I don't want to buy a new radiator and fans, but I might not have a choice. Im thinking I might be able to fab up a bracket to mount the wastegate actuator so I can clock the turbo to a suitable angle.

I am hopefully a little less than 2 weeks from finishing this up (pending the weather). I am extremely worried about everything since I have so much time, money, and blood invested into this. I am so paranoid I am second guessing things like whether or not I put the HG on upside down or not. I will make a video and post it in the photobucket album if she runs when I try to start her. If all goes well and the build is solid she will be getting a fresh coat of paint, full new suspension (shocks, springs, all new arms), GSX brake upgrade, and a new windshield (cracked over the winter).

Please feel free to give me any info you think I need before starting this thing up.

Maybe some porting on head and block? Some cams with springs?

Are you just using CI Motorsports as a reference? Or are you planning on using them?

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Are you just using CI Motorsports as a reference? Or are you planning on using them?

I was planning on using them (they are hyperlinks in my excel sheet). I figured if I could keep my # of vendors used it would save me hassle. I have no experience with them though, so if there is a better vendor you know of by all means please let me know.

I know you know what youre talking about :-)

Originally posted by iNoise
Maybe some porting on head and block? Some cams with springs?

I have a spare head that I will probably have ported and add cams eventually. As of now though, I'm sticking with stock for the head so I can get my car back up and running. I have limited funds to leave myself a safety net as I return to college this fall.

Ive heard iffy things about CImotorsports and their customer service


I used Modernperformance.com and got great service... (sometimes u have to look under the 95-99 neon section for some parts... They did have the best price ive seen on head studs at 109.99 I believe

Originally posted by Smash_NDash
Ive heard iffy things about CImotorsports and their customer service I used Modernperformance.com and got great service... (sometimes u have to look under the 95-99 neon section for some parts... They did have the best price ive seen on head studs at 109.99 I believe

This is one thing I need to learn more about. I don't know what is compatible from the neons, or even what years and trims to look under

Originally posted by 99RedGs
I don't know what is compatible from the neons, or even what years and trims to look under

Most engine parts, 95-2000 DOHC. Things like intake and exhaust manifolds, cams, intakes and such won't work. Neons are rear-exhaust, so some things are backwards in relation to a 2GNT.

I suggest ebay for some of these parts considering they will be cheaper and most on ebay ship faster than ci motorsports.

Dont go CI, unless you dont ever want to see your parts.. most search around for weeks for the best deals..
search about them, youll see they are worthless.

things i dont see in your list that i should:

oil pump.. high volume.. ? sounds generic.. get a melling m190.
MOPAR mls Hg, ditch the felpro.


sent you a PM with another option.

Originally posted by streetlightning
Dont go CI, unless you dont ever want to see your parts.. most search around for weeks for the best deals.. search about them, youll see they are worthless. things i dont see in your list that i should: ARP head studs oil pump.. high volume.. ? sounds generic.. get a melling m190. MOPAR mls Hg, ditch the felpro. sent you a PM with another option.

ARP head bolts are listed under the "Top End"
As for the Oil Pump, I just assumed no one used anything other than Melling so I didn't need to post the brand to save on the size of the image. In my spreadsheet it is the Melling M190.

It sounds pretty unanimous that I shouldn't use CIMotorsports lol. I have been looking for weeks to try and find the best deals and I was hoping they were decent since I could pretty much order everything at once from them..

that site has alot of mopar parts n such...

and eveything i got from the neon section was from the 95-99 section. but they have great customer service so if you do have a question you can always either as them or us.


sn: so 95-00 stuff should work with us minus the obvious (intakes, heads, exhausts etc)

Also Moden has the mech tensioner kit plus the gates racing belt for 130

http://www.modernperformance.com/mechanical-conversion-timing-belt-9501-neon-sohc-p-2026.html

Will that belt fit considering its for a sohc?

I don't mind buying from PD, I have heard he is reliable and decently fast with processing

get the WHOLE kit from PD, with the gates racing timing belt, mech tensioner and idler.. smash n dash seems to have no clue what hes talking about..

keep in mind, you should get the machine work done before you buy pistons, or at least let the machine shop inspect and measure to see what size Overbore, if any, youll need.. that way you dont order pistons, only to realize you need a differnt size. same with bearings, it will depend on cranks shape.

Originally posted by streetlightning
get the WHOLE kit from PD, with the gates racing timing belt, mech tensioner and idler.. smash n dash seems to have no clue what hes talking about..

That is the plan, which is where the $169 price tag comes from :-)

http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/product2625.html

you get my PM? jw. its an option.

Originally posted by streetlightning
get the WHOLE kit from PD, with the gates racing timing belt, mech tensioner and idler.. smash n dash seems to have no clue what hes talking about.. keep in mind, you should get the machine work done before you buy pistons, or at least let the machine shop inspect and measure to see what size Overbore, if any, youll need.. that way you dont order pistons, only to realize you need a differnt size. same with bearings, it will depend on cranks shape.

I made a mistake when clicking the link


http://www.modernperformance.com/mechanical-conversion-timing-belt-9599-neon-dohc-p-2025.html


and its still cheaper

no thanks..

if you did know what you were talking about you would have advised him to replace the idler while he is working on timing components.

Cheap shouldn't be the driving force behind anything "performance"

Cheap, fast, reliable, pick 2.

And CI sucks, theres plenty of horror stories, so if you got "good Service", good for you, you were lucky.

anyway, i think the OP has a good idea of what he needs, now its time to search out vendors. others to stay away from: Howell automotive, looong lead times if ever.

okay im not understanding the difference between the two kits then. Because the one i post comes with the idler tensioner and gates belt and so does the PD one... im honestly lost

NP, there should be one kit, that comes with Idler, Mech tensioner assembly and gates belt. the linky posted only shows the mech assembly and belt. from what ive seen PD has the whole shabang. Im pretty sure Modern gets their kts from him. I haven't done bizz with modern in some time, but i know PD is a quick shipper. thats why IMO, prefer him over modern.

NVM, looking at that link that 99 posted, looks like its included,the link Smash posted oesnt have the Idler included, thus the price diff.

Originally posted by streetlightning
NP, there should be one kit, that comes with Idler, Mech tensioner assembly and gates belt. the linky posted only shows the mech assembly and belt. from what ive seen PD has the whole shabang. Im pretty sure Modern gets their kts from him. I haven't done bizz with modern in some time, but i know PD is a quick shipper. thats why IMO, prefer him over modern. NVM, looking at that link that 99 posted, looks like its included,the link Smash posted oesnt have the Idler included, thus the price diff.

im still confused because the MP kit comes with: "Time to do a timing belt replacement ? Replace the timing belt, idler bearing and tensioner with this all included KIT ! "

and its ~$30 less for the same kit with the same exact parts down to the brand.

I just ordered this kit a month ago and it came with all 3 pieces shown in the PD but again for ~$30 less


Sorry im just still confused as to what is NOT in this kit that is in the PD kit...

http://www.modernperformance.com/mechanical-conversion-timing-belt-9599-neon-dohc-p-2025.html

also here is the piston kit your lookin at for a few buck cheaper

(Im in the process of rebuilding my engine as well so I have done A lot of price comparison)

http://realstreetperformance.com/store/wiseco-pistons-eagle-rods-combo-eclipse-rs-420a-2-0l-718.html

they also have other internal parts n such

idk, thats the one tho..

... you have still not clarified anything.... To say I dont know what im talking about then to not be able to tell me why im "wrong" is pretty pointless you know.

Originally posted by Smash_NDash
... you have still not clarified anything.... To say I dont know what im talking about then to not be able to tell me why im "wrong" is pretty pointless you know.

Please take the argument out of this thread :-/ Thanks.

Figured out new vendors for almost everything, I'll be posting a new parts list for you guys to criticize lol. I won't be back to the car for a few weeks, but once I'm back I'll be documenting it all and hopefully you guys can catch any mistakes you see.

Have a good weekend all!

make sure you cut your timing cover when u switch to the mech... I made the mistake and I had to take everything off to correct it.

Well,

I have found vendors for everything I need now thanks to the help CODE4, DarkOne, teklein, and the other guys in the chat daily. I will be starting the ordering process this weekend so that hopefully parts will be arriving when I return to Wisconsin in September.

I am now in the process of locating a machine shop to do some basic machining on my block. Unfortunately, I am not really finding anything that seems reasonable.

This is the work I need:

- Bore/Hone block to piston manufacturer specs (.020 Wiseco)
- Clean block
- Machine head (headgasket sealing surface)
- Grind valve seals ( I have all new seals so they are being replaced)

I got a $1000 quote >.< ... I think I'll shop around lol

$100!?!? I had the same things done on my first build and after all was said and done I ended up spending $300 Max if that. Just search around for engine rebuilders or machine shop. It doesn't have to be a high performance shop.

The album says private for me. Can't view the pictures. Looks awesome from what you posted!!

Originally posted by iNoise
The album says private for me. Can't view the pictures. Looks awesome from what you posted!!

Sorry about that, I changed the settings. It has most of the same pictures, but I'll be adding more to it as I start wrapping things up.

looks great so far! that valve cover and timing belt reminds me of mine :( lol

best of luck, youll be fine.

Awesome work. I was anxious too the first time I rebuilt a 420a. But everything turned out fine. I disconnected the fuel relay before I first fired it up to let the oil prime for a few seconds, but that's about it. Good luck!

Yeah, I always disconnect the injectors and take out the plugs so there is no load on it and prime the pump. Looks like a great build so far, and good choice on the 10.5:1 pistons!

I never primed my oil pump when I did my first start up.....oops ( the excitement got to me)

UPDATE: 03/05/2012

Well, I have completed just about everything that needs to be done immediately before I am able to start the car. I am now on to my Megasquirt adventure. I have been reading and watching videos about how to set everything up, but in all honesty it is still a little complex for me. I wish I had someone here who could walk me through it once since I learn best by example.

MS1 v2.2 029y4 3-bar map sensor
550cc injectors
LC-1 wideband

Issues:
-I seem to be having a problem when I open up Terry's .MSQ with Tunerstudio or Megatune. I also downloaded an .MSQ from symtech's database and got errors as well

SymtechLabs base map Errors:

I have read through the manuals and I was wondering if anyone has a link that shows setting everything up with Tunerstudio? I found some but they were for MS2 or 3 so the settings were different





What all I have completed for the build thus far:
- Built and mounted engine in the car
- Completed all of the plumbing with SS lines ( Oil feed, Fuel Return, Oil drain)
- PS and AC delete
- Made a bracket and mounted the FMIC
- Cut intercooler piping to fitment
- Installed OFE3 clutch (provided by Zac) with new TOB
- 90% of wiring completed for MS system
- Gauges mounted and wired up
- Fill with coolant
- Wire up the power for the MS
- Wire up and mount the LC-1 wideband
- Bleed the clutch
- Plumb the vacuum tubing
- Mount AFPR (I accidently made my return line a little shorter than I wanted to I'm still problem solving this)
- Install a new alternator
- Prime the oil pump before initial startup


What I have left to do:
- Fabricate a 3" resonator to connect the DP to the "cat-back"
- Burn a base map to the MS
- Have a welder apply a bead around the intercooler pipes that I cut so I get a better seal
- Figure out a PCV system to prevent pressurization of the crankcase
- Rebuild the engine because I'll probably blow it up since I had no idea what I was doing on this build...

THE CAR HAS BEEN STARTED!!!

I seemed to have figured out my MS problem, I loaded a base map from symtechlabs and she fired up. It built oil pressure instantly and idled really smooth. The only problem was it was idling around 1200rpms so there is a bit of tuning to do before I take it out on the road. I am looking into having a local shop dyno tune it, but I also purchased a license for tunerstudio and may try out VE Live.

glad to hear

Originally posted by 99RedGs
THE CAR HAS BEEN STARTED!!! I seemed to have figured out my MS problem, I loaded a base map from symtechlabs and she fired up. It built oil pressure instantly and idled really smooth. The only problem was it was idling around 1200rpms

Congrats!

Yeah, the base map will usually get you started and running but you will need to adjust to your set-up.

On your way......

10.5:1 Wiseco Pistons 88mm

That compression isn't to much to have on a DD is it??

Nope

Originally posted by Slo2g
Nope

Hay bro, I was just asking a question, I wasn't trying to be mean or anything like that.

Originally posted by rst_eclipse

Originally posted by Slo2g Nope

Hay bro, I was just asking a question, I wasn't trying to be mean or anything like that.

What are you talking about?

Originally posted by Slo2g

Originally posted by rst_eclipse

Originally posted by Slo2g Nope

Hay bro, I was just asking a question, I wasn't trying to be mean or anything like that.

What are you talking about?

Probably another guy confused by your signature.

Originally posted by CODE4

Originally posted by Slo2g

Originally posted by rst_eclipse

Originally posted by Slo2g Nope

Hay bro, I was just asking a question, I wasn't trying to be mean or anything like that.

What are you talking about?

Probably another guy confused by your signature.

I did get confused I apologize.

Originally posted by Slo2g

Originally posted by rst_eclipse

Originally posted by Slo2g Nope

Hay bro, I was just asking a question, I wasn't trying to be mean or anything like that.

What are you talking about?

I apologize, nope what is close to you signature and I thought it was all one sentence