Hey,

Just got back from the shop getting Mandy tuned.

First off, I am not happy with the tune. Car never had a fan on it. It was so hot that I have blisters from touching the cam gears. It was heat soaked like a mofo. I felt extremely rushed. I paid 350.00 for a flat rate rune that entailed as many hours as it takes to make it perfect. Car is a absolute PITA to start. Owner kept telling the tuner they had a Supra to tune. They parked it outside, and it would not start.

Tuner came out and put the BK7's because it will start and they are better for the car anyway. Funny, I had them brand new in the car when I brought it and told him they were there. If I should have had them, why was the car not tuned like that?

Then he said the car was too hot to start. Then when it still would not start he got it to start by doing some crazy start sequence with the throttle.

Zac and I worked on the starting and driveability of the car for a ton of hours. Right on the Dyno with Zac and I's tune I made 153whp and 140wtq. Tuner messed with it and 156whp. I adjusted cam gears to -3/-3 and made the current dyno chart.

I basically paid 350.00 to have a heat soaked motor, 3whp, and nothing right. For a company that says they pride themselves in their tuning, I am pissed.

And for all that, here is the dyno tune. Mind you this was the last pull, heat soaked motor and all.



For reference, this is the stock motor with 16's :) I gained like 37whp.

161 is nothing to scoff at, Tim.

Originally posted by DarkOne
161 is nothing to scoff at, Tim.

Thanks D!

And I know, I just really believe there is more in the car. And I am pissed about everything else that happened.

Still, 161whp is pretty awesome.

Originally posted by DarkOne
161 is nothing to scoff at, Tim.

Definately. Just shy of taking me off of Bulletts right hand side...

Heres mine for comparison, I think they have about the same curves.
I cant understand why my torque is so low compared to Fotowns and yours though...




Post up an image of your VE and Spark tables. My spark table is pushing it, which is why I made the nubmers I did. I also have to thank Bullett a LOT for that, as I started with his table and modified it to fit my car. A far way from his map, but it helped alot.

Has anyone at this Dyno shop ever tuned Megasquirt before? I assume you were using Tunerstudios? At my local dyno we have an amazing tuner, never touched MS before so it took a while to get the hang of. I also spent the entire first 5 hours on the dyno trying to get it to IDLE!!!

Also, what was your rev limit set at?

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick

Originally posted by DarkOne 161 is nothing to scoff at, Tim.

Definately. Just shy of taking me off of Bulletts right hand side... Heres mine for comparison, I think they have about the same curves. I cant understand why my torque is so low compared to Fotowns and yours though... http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z233/740_Turbo_Brick/Dynograph002.jp g http://www.2gnt.com/graphics/teklein_Mandy_dyno.jp g Post up an image of your VE and Spark tables. My spark table is pushing it, which is why I made the nubmers I did. I also have to thank Bullett a LOT for that, as I started with his table and modified it to fit my car. A far way from his map, but it helped alot. Has anyone at this Dyno shop ever tuned Megasquirt before? I assume you were using Tunerstudios? At my local dyno we have an amazing tuner, never touched MS before so it took a while to get the hang of. I also spent the entire first 5 hours on the dyno trying to get it to IDLE!!! Also, what was your rev limit set at?

Here is fuel:



Here is spark:



Rev limiter is 7200 now, was 8k.

Whenever you add more timing, you start hearing the pinging associated with detonation. He added two degrees at one point and it started pinging at 5500.

They tuned Zacs car and another 420A with a Hahn kit before.

Originally posted by teklein

Here is fuel: Here is spark: Rev limiter is 7200 now, was 8k. Whenever you add more timing, you start hearing the pinging associated with detonation. He added two degrees at one point and it started pinging at 5500. They tuned Zacs car and another 420A with a Hahn kit before.

Holy shit dude...

Heres my spark. Cant find my VE just yet...



This is basically Marks before I modified it, but its close.

Originally posted by teklein
Hey, Just got back from the shop getting Mandy tuned. First off, I am not happy with the tune. Car never had a fan on it.

This is as wrong as wrong can get. The only time I have EVER seen a car run without a fan on a dyno was when.....well, NEVER! How can you remove the hot air from the engine bay without the fan working. You are running into rpm's that normally have 80-90 mph winds associated with them. Yes, you lost power on the heat soak.

Originally posted by teklein
I felt extremely rushed. I paid 350.00 for a flat rate rune that entailed as many hours as it takes to make it perfect. Car is a absolute PITA to start. Owner kept telling the tuner they had a Supra to tune.

I know what's going on here (as you probably do. It was your first time there correct?)

Originally posted by teklein
They parked it outside, and it would not start. Tuner came out and put the BK7's because it will start and they are better for the car anyway.

Yes, yes they are the correct plug.

Originally posted by teklein
Then he said the car was too hot to start. Then when it still would not start he got it to start by doing some crazy start sequence with the throttle.

:rolleyes Sounds like he was probably clearing the chambers of fuel? For fun, check your dwell. See if you got some crazy dwell numbers.

Originally posted by teklein
For a company that says they pride themselves in their tuning, I am pissed.

I can understand that. Any idea why they didn't have a fan on it? Do they not own one? Did they do the Supra without the fan, lol? Dyno's are tough on engines. They just made it all that much tougher.

Now, you have every right to go back on that dyno until they get it right. The question is, do you want to?

Christ when are you guys just going to move next to me so I can send you over to Matt's?

Congrats on your's and Zac's tuning.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Now, you have every right to go back on that dyno until they get it right. The question is, do you want to? Christ when are you guys just going to move next to me so I can send you over to Matt's? Congrats on your's and Zac's tuning.

Yeah, I am thinking about that now. I bet if Zac and I went out and corrected the AFR's again, we would be golden. Normally Hubert is an awesome tuner, maybe today was just a bad off day. I am not sure.

If I drive up there does Matt tune for soda? :P

Thanks MB, Zac really is awesome, and without him the car would not run as well as it does.

Originally posted by teklein
If I drive up there does Matt tune for soda?

Well, I guess a little bit. Everytime I go up there to tune, I bring a cooler of soda for the crew and company to dig into. So I guess in my case, its part of the deal, lol.

Originally posted by teklein
Car never had a fan on it. It was so hot that I have blisters from touching the cam gears. It was heat soaked like a mofo. I felt extremely rushed. I paid 350.00 for a flat rate rune that entailed as many hours as it takes to make it perfect.

Originally posted by teklein
I basically paid 350.00 to have a heat soaked motor, 3whp, and nothing right.

Originally posted by teklein
For a company that says they pride themselves in their tuning, I am pissed.

all of the above piss me off beyond measure. typical chris BULLSHIT. i wouldn'tve paid. seriously.

I'd be pissed.

One other thing I forgot to mention...

Car was so hot that the clutch was slipping horribly. Let it cool completely down and its fine.

Grats and sucks(for the way they treated you). Horrid service for the amount of money people pay is inexcusable. If it makes you feel better though, I paid more for my tune and gained less whp.

Originally posted by teklein
One other thing I forgot to mention... Car was so hot that the clutch was slipping horribly. Let it cool completely down and its fine.

Overheat = Detonation

hey, tim. what would you have done that it got so hot, because of what they did, and it blew. would you bust out the high school slamming rage?

I never would have paid, man. I'll put money on you having at least 10 more ponies and tq left to tune. I would have bitch slapped the guy right off the bat for not using a fan. That's asking for problems...like heat soak. Go back there and demand a proper tune or your money back. Fuck that Supra, you were first and paid first, they should have taken care of you first. Bottom line.

Not that I would ever travel that far to tune my car(2 dyno facilities in Ft. Wayne +1 at school) but if I had to, I know I would't choose TDC. Bad form.

What I'm gettin' at is, you've been Bamboozeled Tim!

Nice numbers Timbo! I agree with all of the sentiment above, you definitely have a good 10whp left there. Heat soak alone surely robbed you of at least 5whp. What kind of tune shop doesn't use a fan on their dyno?? Whack.

I foresee that with one or two more dyno sessions you will be around 170-175.

Keep working it dude!

Tim, I say send this thread link to Chris (the owner). Like this if you agree. LOL :P

Keep in mind that also the overheat would affect the cam gear adjustment. BTW, you did start and -2,-2 and then adjust 1 degree individually (on each cam; as in -3,-2, then if it didn't help, -1,-3 then if that didn't help -2,-3 etc.) correct?

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Keep in mind that also the overheat would affect the cam gear adjustment. BTW, you did start and -2,-2 and then adjust 1 degree individually (on each cam; as in -3,-2, then if it didn't help, -1,-3 then if that didn't help -2,-3 etc.) correct?

Yeah MB, anytime I added the car lost power :/

Originally posted by teklein
Yeah MB, anytime I added the car lost power :/

Alright cool, just double checking. Then just refer to this;

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Keep in mind that also the overheat would affect the cam gear adjustment.

Well, it appears that they killed the clutch.

Smell clutch during normal driving and if you get on it the second time it will slip a bit :(

New clutch time IMO.

Did you replace the clutch when you built the motor? Or is that the stock one?

F1 racing stage (1 or 2, cant remember mine) cheap aftermarket clutch, best clutch Ive ever felt. Love it.

That clutch disc looked about 65% used up before we installed it on the block. With the combination of what they did w/ the heat, im pretty sure that there's not a whole lot of life left on it. I hate TDC w/ a passion. Pathetic business

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick
Did you replace the clutch when you built the motor? Or is that the stock one? F1 racing stage (1 or 2, cant remember mine) cheap aftermarket clutch, best clutch Ive ever felt. Love it.

Nope, its a Fidanza 2.1 with flywheel I bought from Clay. Mikey saw it, it had like 65% life left.

Talked to Dino, been driving it easy for a few days. Got on it this morning and it did not slip, so maybe the glazing has burned off :shrug

I had the F1 in my ACR, it was nice!

Originally posted by teklein

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick Did you replace the clutch when you built the motor? Or is that the stock one? F1 racing stage (1 or 2, cant remember mine) cheap aftermarket clutch, best clutch Ive ever felt. Love it.

Nope, its a Fidanza 2.1 with flywheel I bought from Clay. Mikey saw it, it had like 65% life left. Talked to Dino, been driving it easy for a few days. Got on it this morning and it did not slip, so maybe the glazing has burned off :shrug I had the F1 in my ACR, it was nice!

No no, I said 65% used up, not life left. From what I saw, it looked like you have about 35-55% life remaining on that disc

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC

Originally posted by teklein

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick Did you replace the clutch when you built the motor? Or is that the stock one? F1 racing stage (1 or 2, cant remember mine) cheap aftermarket clutch, best clutch Ive ever felt. Love it.

Nope, its a Fidanza 2.1 with flywheel I bought from Clay. Mikey saw it, it had like 65% life left. Talked to Dino, been driving it easy for a few days. Got on it this morning and it did not slip, so maybe the glazing has burned off :shrug I had the F1 in my ACR, it was nice!

No no, I said 65% used up, not life left. From what I saw, it looked like you have about 35-55% life remaining on that disc

Clutch only had 13000 miles at the max.

eyes vs. numbers