Ok just found me a Big Ol loop hole in the California smog law and I wanna tune my car to run like a bat out'a hell yet be simple enough for a minor repair and so I think I'll settle for N/A. And so what is the largest pistons I can throw and the highest compression can I run without ping?
Money will be no object yet I ain't gonna spend 14 grand either!
$5-10 grand will be my goal.
I would go turbo but I don't think I have the skills to tune like many of you pros and very little time to learn and so N/A will be the best way to go and so by the end of the year I want to have my beast on the road looking for fresh kill.
I don't want a loopy idle nor do I want a car that makes me yawn with excitement so please any good ideas you guys have will help.
Thank You guys for a great site to hang out at from time to time.
And yes it's been a long time since I have posted but the economy was a bitch for a while but held on to my baby! She still has only 72 on the OD! :)

Soooo, let me get this straight, you want a super fast NA 420a DSM, without a loping idle (aka stock or stage 1 crower cams), that will pass California emissions, with little to no tuning? Good luck on that...

Either you need to be more specific with "bat out'a hell" and "beast on the road" fast or you need a different platform or need to re-evaluate your goals.. I have one of the fastest 420a NA DSMs ever recorded out there and I have a very obvious loping idle, and doubt I could pass Ohio emissions if ever tested.

Not trying to discourage you but your goals, while vague seem rather out there.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
Soooo, let me get this straight, you want a super fast NA 420a DSM, without a loping idle (aka stock or stage 1 crower cams), that will pass California emissions, with little to no tuning? Good luck on that... Either you need to be more specific with "bat out'a hell" and "beast on the road" fast or you need a different platform or need to re-evaluate your goals.. I have one of the fastest 420a NA DSMs ever recorded out there and I have a very obvious loping idle, and doubt I could pass Ohio emissions if ever tested. Not trying to discourage you but your goals, while vague seem rather out there.

Noooo!!! I found a way around the test I don't wanna go into details because loose lips sink ships! But what I was trying to get at is I would like a my engine to stay silky smooth yet run oh somewhere between in the high 13's to low 15's and I have an automatic. Without a turbo if I can. I don't have the skills to screw around with the computer under the hood. Heck I have a hard time win my laptop! :)
I'm not gonna do the work ill pay one of you guys if I ya ain't got nothing to do on a weekend or go to a local shop, I know very little about taking an engine apart and the computer is intimidating just looking at it! I wanted something reliable yet quick.
Sorry if I was a tad bit excited :)

Originally posted by fullmoon

Originally posted by Fotowntalon between in the high 13's to low 15's

Thats a huge gap. It is possible to get it down to mid 15s fairly easily, low 15s is harder, high 13s will be impossible with no tuning or cams. Unless of course you are willing to consider being on the bottle still NA, then of course the window opens more. But for straight up NA...

Let me put it to ya this way, beyond me, there has been only 3-4 other people(ever) in the 14's with our engine. One is debatable whether he sprayed or now. Of those cars, only one beyond me is still running, and while that car is in the low 13's its strictly a drag car. To further give you an idea, I am running 14.9's with this mod list http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/members/fotowntalon-93665.html and that was with no passenger/back seat gutted trunk and drag slicks.

You can easily get into 14's/13's range if you turbo. And like you said you are paying people to do the work....

If you are insistent on NA without the bottle, I'd shoot for mid to low 15s. Start with basic bolt on's, intake, catback. Get a nice intake manifold, throttle body, underdrive pulley, any weight reduction you can find. AFX ECU (plug and play tuning but wont work with turbo). You should be able to rebuild to 10.5 comp pistons, but I doubt any bigger without aftermarket camshafts to help bleed off the compression. You may want to ask your local performance shop about stroking the engine. I'd imagine that would get you relatively close. If you still have money left, make sure to get a nice port job on the head, once again though your main peg leg is gonna be non upgraded cams, which I don't see how you can have if you can't have a lopping idle. I am sure I am missing s few things, but its kind of hard to just get on here and list a whole mod list.

What you want out of your car simply cannot happen the way you want it to.

Originally posted by Wes Tank
What you want out of your car simply cannot happen the way you want it to.

Oops almost missed this one! Ok I see one thumb up and one down! Why do you say it is impossible? I'm leaning toward a Evo engine swap now if it cannot be done.

ill say this once..

NO, you didnt find a big Ol loop hole.. why? b/c there is none.. the last one that existed was in 06 when they crushed the out of state/student registration re-tension.... and 2. IF you have key'd hood locks, and u refuse to consent to search and unlock them, they will get a field warrnt to search it..its an extremely common thing to the point that all they have to do is call the watch commander to issue it (i know it comes from a judge, but they have a blanket one that they can apply, thus they just need to fill in your name)..the laws are very simple now.

1 YOU NEED carb STICKERS AND PAPER WORK FOR PARTS IF YOU MODIFY. if you dont have these, its simply illeagal

2. your car is Exempt IF its made before 71 (i belive) i know its the 70's for sure .
Your car is not.

ANd 3. NO, slapping a 70s exempt motor in the car will not make the car exempt. it will make it unregistered..

and finally, your car is not rare, nor is itspecial in any way as defined by cali to make it exempt.via special interest..

Dude, belive me , i tried for 3 yrs to find "loop holes".. this is how they make their cash...u seriously think you outsmarted a team of highly paid lawyers.. you didnt.. youve clearly mis read or mis interpreted..
And fyi, IF you found some smog place that will "pass " it for you, 2 things to consider. 1. at any time if u get pulled over and officer has reasonable suspicion ( if he sees an aftermarket gauge or even aftermarket exhaust) he can make you go to the refferee.. which means he can impound on the spot.. it happend to my civic, i had legit carb stickers, but smog was bribed. needless to say car was impounded .

2.. you realize smog places are sanctioned by the state, so if they are shady , lucky you for finding one, but since most arnt, they may be trying to play you.. they do get a reward for turning ppl in, just like the IRS...afterall you are asking them to falsify a STATE document...

my suggestion, get a gst. its quick, its turbo and its legal.

EVO engine swap! kid seriously... go by a gst.

if you even for one second think you can swap that in (no impossible, just really stupid).. much less have it be legal.. then its clear you have no clue about the car , or laws..

check yourself before you wreck yourself.

i on the other hand am trying to be discouraging.. b/c well, its simply not going to happen, so move on. your not going to have a legal and fast 420a in cali. Done.

wheres the ban icon when i need it.. lol

Originally posted by streetlightning
ill say this once.. NO, you didnt find a big Ol loop hole.. why? b/c there is none.. the last one that existed was in 06 when they crushed the out of state/student registration re-tension.... and 2. IF you have key'd hood locks, and u refuse to consent to search and unlock them, they will get a field warrnt to search it..its an extremely common thing to the point that all they have to do is call the watch commander to issue it (i know it comes from a judge, but they have a blanket one that they can apply, thus they just need to fill in your name)..the laws are very simple now. 1 YOU NEED carb STICKERS AND PAPER WORK FOR PARTS IF YOU MODIFY. if you dont have these, its simply illeagal 2. your car is Exempt IF its made before 71 (i belive) i know its the 70's for sure . Your car is not. ANd 3. NO, slapping a 70s exempt motor in the car will not make the car exempt. it will make it unregistered.. and finally, your car is not rare, nor is itspecial in any way as defined by cali to make it exempt.via special interest.. Dude, belive me , i tried for 3 yrs to find "loop holes".. this is how they make their cash...u seriously think you outsmarted a team of highly paid lawyers.. you didnt.. youve clearly mis read or mis interpreted.. And fyi, IF you found some smog place that will "pass " it for you, 2 things to consider. 1. at any time if u get pulled over and officer has reasonable suspicion ( if he sees an aftermarket gauge or even aftermarket exhaust) he can make you go to the refferee.. which means he can impound on the spot.. it happend to my civic, i had legit carb stickers, but smog was bribed. needless to say car was impounded . 2.. you realize smog places are sanctioned by the state, so if they are shady , lucky you for finding one, but since most arnt, they may be trying to play you.. they do get a reward for turning ppl in, just like the IRS...afterall you are asking them to falsify a STATE document... my suggestion, get a gst. its quick, its turbo and its legal. EVO engine swap! kid seriously... go by a gst. if you even for one second think you can swap that in (no impossible, just really stupid).. much less have it be legal.. then its clear you have no clue about the car , or laws.. check yourself before you wreck yourself. i on the other hand am trying to be discouraging.. b/c well, its simply not going to happen, so move on. your not going to have a legal and fast 420a in cali. Done. wheres the ban icon when i need it.. lol

The law only applies to those who live in the state I do not and there is nothing they can do about it. I only drive my car a few times a year in the state. I have iorn clad proof. ;)

And I don't hafta take the smog. See I drive a truck all 48 i have to fill out logs etc to prove where and what i do and see I only store my car there to drive back and forth to see my mother. :)
They must respect the laws of the state I reside in and in my area I don't smog.

i love south carolina

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC
i love south carolina

Yes I have been to your state it's beautiful too! The climate is much like California's.

Sorry don't have time to look at this very well. But to the guy who was critical of th way I post sorry I was excited but I see your point I just go get a better car it's no big thing. I just like the one I have is all. Thanks anyway.

Originally posted by fullmoon
Sorry don't have time to look at this very well. But to the guy who was critical of th way I post sorry I was excited but I see your point I just go get a better car it's no big thing. I just like the one I have is all. Thanks anyway.

Your obviously going to be stubborn about it, so if you DON'T want turbo, fine, you will be slow especially with an Auto from a stop. But if you want to take a little constructive criticism, then start searching, gain knowledge of the car you own.

Its not hopeless if you take the advice & learn. You didn't get where you are today by someone spoon feeding you b/s, think about it.

Good Luck.

Originally posted by 2ndGen-ElTalon

Originally posted by fullmoon Sorry don't have time to look at this very well. But to the guy who was critical of th way I post sorry I was excited but I see your point I just go get a better car it's no big thing. I just like the one I have is all. Thanks anyway.

Your obviously going to be stubborn about it, so if you DON'T want turbo, fine, you will be slow especially with an Auto from a stop. But if you want to take a little constructive criticism, then start searching, gain knowledge of the car you own. Its not hopeless if you take the advice & learn. You didn't get where you are today by someone spoon feeding you b/s, think about it. Good Luck.

Noooo not stubborn and yes I understand what the other guys is talking about he means well, just about ready to throw in the towel is all. I will check a few more threads and make my final decision. I can turbo it but I'll just hafta move it to another state but she looks so good in California when the sun sets on her.

If you dont live in the state, then why do you care about cali smog...

if your car isnt registerd in cali, then why state its a loop hole.. thats stupid, of course anyone can drive thru the state with a modified car? unless you stay instate for X amount of time.. Thats why i put the re tension revoke in there.. out of state students used to be able to retain their out of state tags as long as they were a student, but theyve changed that,.

and fyi, it is illegal to have a car not cali registerd stored in cali for a certain amount of time.. it may be like 1 yr or so.. but hardly a loophole.

Originally posted by streetlightning
If you dont live in the state, then why do you care about cali smog... if your car isnt registerd in cali, then why state its a loop hole.. thats stupid, of course anyone can drive thru the state with a modified car? unless you stay instate for X amount of time.. Thats why i put the re tension revoke in there.. out of state students used to be able to retain their out of state tags as long as they were a student, but theyve changed that,. and fyi, it is illegal to have a car not cali registerd stored in cali for a certain amount of time.. it may be like 1 yr or so.. but hardly a loophole.

See I live in another state...That's me and my car lives in California that's her and I drive around California from time to time to see my mother. The DMV rep in California told me not to worry my California stikers would be sent t my resident where I live and because I am a resident of another state I don't hafta take the smog and so that in my mind gives me a green light to modify. Now I may be wrong and if I am I will admit it and go GST hunting or 4th gen hunting. I just love that 2nd gen body and I'd hate to let her go she's so sexy!

u realize a gst has the exact same body.... and again.. its not a loop hole if u live, and have a dl in another state.. it is however illegal if you live and have a DL, and the car is registerd to you and is sitting in cali for x amount of time.. IF the car has a cali registration, then ur still screwed, and they will require you to do a smog..

so regardless of phyiscal location of the car, does it have a cali registration? and is your DL a differnt address, if so, and u get pulled over, they will tag you. you would then need to chose to change your DL to match the state reg, or change the reg of the car to match the DL..

so if u r car doesnt have a cali registration, then u havent found a loop hole lol..

Originally posted by streetlightning
u realize a gst has the exact same body.... and again.. its not a loop hole if u live, and have a dl in another state.. it is however illegal if you live and have a DL, and the car is registerd to you and is sitting in cali for x amount of time.. IF the car has a cali registration, then ur still screwed, and they will require you to do a smog.. so regardless of phyiscal location of the car, does it have a cali registration? and is your DL a differnt address, if so, and u get pulled over, they will tag you. you would then need to chose to change your DL to match the state reg, or change the reg of the car to match the DL.. so if u r car doesnt have a cali registration, then u havent found a loop hole lol..

Yes I do realize they are the same. And when I spoke the the DMV all she said was to fill out a special form and it will be mailed out to my residence no smog required I have had it paid for by my company due the state garnished my check anddid not know it was paid for all this time. Now I'm just going by what she said.

Originally posted by fullmoon
Ok just found me a Big Ol loop hole in the California smog law and I wanna tune my car to run like a bat out'a hell yet be simple enough for a minor repair and so I think I'll settle for N/A. And so what is the largest pistons I can throw and the highest compression can I run without ping? Money will be no object yet I ain't gonna spend 14 grand either! $5-10 grand will be my goal. I would go turbo but I don't think I have the skills to tune like many of you pros and very little time to learn and so N/A will be the best way to go and so by the end of the year I want to have my beast on the road looking for fresh kill. I don't want a loopy idle nor do I want a car that makes me yawn with excitement so please any good ideas you guys have will help. Thank You guys for a great site to hang out at from time to time. And yes it's been a long time since I have posted but the economy was a bitch for a while but held on to my baby! She still has only 72 on the OD! :)

Contradiction list:
1. "...tune my car to run like a bat out'a hell yet be simple enough for a minor repair..." -Anything that is fast (subjective) will not be simple
2. Money will be no object yet I ain't gonna spend 14 grand either! -Obviously money is an item than
3. "...N/A will be the best way to go and so by the end of the year I want to have my beast on the road looking for fresh kill " -I am not sure what you consider fast but you will not be "killing anything" while N/A.
4. ...run like a bat out'a hell....I don't want a loopy idle nor do I want a car that makes me yawn with excitement. -Not going to happen

Please use the search function at the top of the page to gain some general knowledge about the 2gnt before making ingnorant and uniformed remarks. Your post only made you look ridiculous, un-educated, and desperate.

If you have a $5k-$10k budget and want to "run like a bat out'a hell" I don't know why you wouldn't go turbo or spray (I don't consider spray N/A)

The evo engine comment just made me shake my head.

See the following link for 2gnt power considerations. http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Power_Stages

I wasn't going to respond to your thread because I was so disappointed this was coming from a 2gnt owner, but the voice in the back of my head told me I had to, so that the world could be a better place.

Originally posted by ez

That's right rub it in!!! LOL!!! :) Ok seriously from what I can tell she has no guts on the bottom end so I'll just focus on the strength at the top end and do the steps you guys recommend. But if I decide to move her to my free state would you guys recomend an ITB system? I know it has never been done but I really would like to see the 420a perform as a non turbo just to see if she has what I think it has.

Buddy, you really need to search. It really isn't fair just to have all the answers handed to you especially when they have been answered a ton of times.
ITB's has been done before on a 420a, couple times but mainly on actual neon's. Bullet has a thread 3 posts down on his ITB set-up.

ITBs is not something you just slap on and get "mad hp yo!" you need to build up to it. There are a few of us seriously competing in the 420a NA scene, and its not just a slap parts on romp, you need to research and plan. It's a true project.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
Buddy, you really need to search. It really isn't fair just to have all the answers handed to you especially when they have been answered a ton of times. ITB's has been done before on a 420a, couple times but mainly on actual neon's. Bullet has a thread 3 posts down on his ITB set-up. ITBs is not something you just slap on and get "mad hp yo!" you need to build up to it. There are a few of us seriously competing in the 420a NA scene, and its not just a slap parts on romp, you need to research and plan. It's a true project.

I understand just did not know if any Mitsubishi's had been built. Thanks!