I can't really decide on a name for my next build plan. My goal is to hit 13's(13.999)N/A but the next step is where the real $ comes in... For some of you who know me more, I finally rejoined the employed group of American's and I am hoping that means I can put more funds to my baby and get my goal accomplished by either this shootout or next years shootout (2012). On top of my goal of 13's I want it to stay my DD, by this I mean, pump gas (93 is available here), and be able to hop in it and go anywhere whenever I want without to much police harassment for noise =p.

So the point of this thread to inform you all with my list of things I want to do, ask questions, and receive all comments and input, and possibly any hits you guys see on some of the parts I want for cheap.

So to start off, here is where I am currently at(for those who don't know) 14.999 meaning I need to shave a whole second off my time. That time came with a 2.212 60' so there is room for improvement in just simply my launching. This was done at 148WHP/136TQ with a mod list of
Bolt-on Modifications:
AEM SRI w/heat shield, DC 4-2-1 Headers, Apexi Catback, Odessy Optimum Battery(lightweight battery), High Flow Catalytic Converter, Polyurethane Motor Mounts, Carbon Fiber Hood, Fiberglass Fenders, Ported TB to 57mm, P&P Intake Manifold, Unorthadox Racing UDP, Aluminum Radiator w/ OBX radiator hoses, Ishihara-Johnson Crank Scraper

Engine Management:
AF/X ECU + Apexi SAFC2

Engine Internals(136k miles):
Cylinder Head P&P (by pure tuning), Crower Stage 2 Cams, Fidanza Adjustable Cam gears (dialed in), Crower Springs and Retainer Set

Suspension:
ADR rims, Eibach Sportline Springs, Falken Azenis RT-615's (front only- Time was set using MB's Slicks though)

Now where I want to go from here-

Bolt-on Upgrades:
AEM SRI ->AEM v2
(Possibly)DC Headers ->AMM Headers
P&P IM -> AMM IM
(CF doors if I get a lucky lottery ticket)

Engine:
REBUILD (by now its got to be tired) to 12.1... maybe 12.5

Fuel:
Bigger Injectors ???
Walbro 255 fuel pump

Suspension:
Aftermarket shocks... my current ones are bottomed out from the eibach drop, not sure if this will help at all beyond comfort

Drivtrain:
LSD (need to research the differences between the quafie and phantom grip designs)
pair of slicks/drag radials
non-modular clutch w/lightweight flywheel ???
New Transmission with taller gears ???


The AMM IM is basically set it stone and so is getting a LSD (just not sure which one yet). Beyond that, I'd say everything is set to change (especially the ones with '???' by them)

To go down the list, I have my heart set on 12.5 compression, but there is some controversy as to whether I can run it or not, especially without MSnS, this is something I will have to table for now and hope that MB gets his R&D department in gear =P.

For the fuel, the upgraded fuel pump isn't really necessary but I'd imagine my current one is about due to be changed, and I already have a walbro 255 bought (picked it up a LONG time ago when I thought I was gonna boost). For bigger injectors, would come with the rebuild, I believe MB said he didn't upgrade his till he got close to the 200whp range. Now not trying to bench race, but I'd imagine a simple rebuild would alone would net me ~10hp (that would be losing about 1/2hp a year due to wear and tear)then the rule of thumb of +4% per point over current ratio so 9.6-> 12.5 ~3pts or 12%*150=18(comp)+10(wear&tear)+148(current)=178 with the rebuild, granted this is sounding a lot like bench racing, but bottom line is after the rebuild, new IM and headers, I should be getting (hopefully) close to the 200whp mark, and therefor may require bigger injectors... i think... right?

For the drivetrain, I am also undecided on things. Will a lightweight flywheel by good, or durable enough for a DD, I've herd, at least from a honduh perspective that they have recommended against them for DD's because of durability/daily abuse issues. Also, do you think I will be making enough power to benefit from taller gears?

Well that's its for now. I'm sure 34s after I post this I will remember something I left out, but my first official build thread first post is DONE! Like I said all comments/suggestions etc. are welcome and I'll try to update this when there is something newsworthy of updating.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
I can't really decide on a name for my next build plan. My goal is to hit 13's(13.999)N/A

First things first; so what the fuck are you calling your next build plan? This is a must before we can continue. You can go nowhere without a name.

was stuck between project one day and project 13s... Maybe something sweet, like project dinosaur vagina thrasher. Actually i think i like that last one the best, perhaps we should rename the thread?

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
was stuck between project one day and project 13s... Maybe something sweet, like project dinosaur vagina thrasher. Actually i think i like that last one the best, perhaps we should rename the thread?

Done!

Good luck, keep us updated.

Im on the "Mandy will probably hit 180whp by June and still run 15.5's" project :P

Originally posted by teklein
Im on the "Mandy will probably hit 180whp by June and still run 15.5's" project :P

If you get 180whp and not break 15.5's, I'll drive over there and get her in the 14's myself ;)

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
project dinosaur vagina thrasher.

Ok, we have a name so we can now continue on

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
My goal is to hit 13's(13.999)N/A...... I want it to stay my DD....

Lofty, but I always like high goals.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
Bolt-on Upgrades: AEM SRI ->AEM v2 (Possibly)DC Headers ->AMM Headers P&P IM -> AMM IM

Dump the DC, have Mike make a nice LTH. That's key to freeing up/extending flow/power. I'd want the SRI to have piping bigger than the throttle body.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
The rest of my info jumps around so just give me an overall :P

Ok, let's look at engine. How ballsy are you? You are sticking with the AFX ECU correct? 12.5 comp with the more aggressive spark table of the AFX and the more power seems (even to me) to be a bit too aggressive. Now would I think about doing this? Possibly. I've got no problem trying something and having to rebuild because she got burnt up(too bad I didn't still have all my stock wiring in. I'd gladly slap your AFX ECU in there and see what happens). You gotta ask yourself if you are in that same train of thought.

Don't touch the injectors until you are sure you need bigger ones. Keep in mind that AFX acts like the stock ECU so it will still "think" you are running stock sized injectors and adjust percentages accordingly. I'm thinking you may use the SAFC to offset some of this. But of course, that's the beauty of MSnS. Full fuel adjustability. I'd reccomend sitting on your current stock injectors until you know you need to upgrade.

Wheels/slicks go without saying. New suspension you've already talked about. Just be sure you get something that is adjustable.

LSD, yeah, Quaife is number 1. PG? Is number nothing. I won't even consider talking about it. (um, you should have bought my ERT while I still had it, lol). So what does that leave us with? The OBX. Ok, here's what you might consider if you want to save a couple of bucks. There is a company/person out there that is selling "reworked" OBX LSD's (or you send him yours, I don't remember how it worked). Now what they have to their advantage is they have lots of parts for the OBX (I believe that I sold my old one to them for parts). So when they get a new unit that was put together by the 10 year old Chinese kid who was out on a bender the night before, they have parts to fix/replace it with. They have a pretty good rep with these units (believe me, I was quite happy with the way mine functioned. I was just unhappy with the way mine leaked, lol). They are located on neons.org.

I ran a 190 Walbro for quite some time. I think I have a 255 in htere now.

Alright, I gotta quote this;

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
.......~10hp (that would be losing about 1/2hp a year due to wear and tear)then the rule of thumb of +4% per point over current ratio so 9.6-> 12.5 ~3pts or 12%*150=18(comp)+10(wear&tear)+148(current)=178 with the rebuild

Lol, ricer! (I understand where you are going with this though)

Lightweight flywheel? I'm a proponent (especially lower power levels) Less rotational weight vs needed inertia blah blah blah, but I like the idea and, IMO, as long as you speed shift, it takes the inertia position out of the equation (and no I'm not going to lawyer argument this point. If you don't agree with me then fine consider yourself right, lol).

I don't think you're at the point of taller gears yet. I don't think I'm at the point of taller gears yet.

Well I have been doing a ton of thinking about realistic budget for the year, and the more I think about it, all I can accomplish this year is the bolt-on upgrades (headers/IM/intake) and transmission (lsd, maybe new tranny altogether, maybe flywheel). As for the LSD I would have bought yours had I the funds at the time, I'll keep an eye out for an ERT one though.

I think this will help simplify things, then with 2012's tax money, go into the rebuild. That should give me a whole year to research the compression 12.1 or 12.5 or maybe lower with the AF/X+SAFC combo and maybe possibly MSnS. Only thing I really have set in stone is I diffidently want to be above 10.5.

I think next week sometime I'll give the guys at Pure a call, and ask them there opinion on the lightweight flywheel, there is no debate it will do great on the track, the main thing I am worried about is the DD aspect of it all.

If you think you are not ready for taller gears, then I highly doubt I am. I'm not going to complain, will save me some money.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
Well I have been doing a ton of thinking about realistic budget for the year, and the more I think about it, all I can accomplish this year is the bolt-on upgrades (headers/IM/intake) and transmission (lsd, maybe new tranny altogether, maybe flywheel). As for the LSD I would have bought yours had I the funds at the time, I'll keep an eye out for an ERT one though. I think this will help simplify things, then with 2012's tax money, go into the rebuild. That should give me a whole year to research the compression 12.1 or 12.5 or maybe lower with the AF/X+SAFC combo and maybe possibly MSnS. Only thing I really have set in stone is I diffidently want to be above 10.5. I think next week sometime I'll give the guys at Pure a call, and ask them there opinion on the lightweight flywheel, there is no debate it will do great on the track, the main thing I am worried about is the DD aspect of it all. If you think you are not ready for taller gears, then I highly doubt I am. I'm not going to complain, will save me some money.

The LSD should be a priority IMO. I have one.

It made the car COMPLETELY different. Launching, turning, its like a ridiculous grip monster. Although I do run Tein Coilovers.

My last dyno was at 121 which was on the stock ECU. I was revving the car to 6k then dropping the clutch to launch, it just took off.

Also, I highly recommend MSnS. I was nervous going into it, but Zac had it up and running in a few hours. Ive been running on it for about a month and a half now.

Ive been running a Fidanza flywheel for about a year now, once again huge difference and I suffer no issues. AC and all.

Originally posted by teklein
The LSD should be a priority IMO. I have one. It made the car COMPLETELY different. Launching, turning, its like a ridiculous grip monster. Although I do run Tein Coilovers. My last dyno was at 121 which was on the stock ECU. I was revving the car to 6k then dropping the clutch to launch, it just took off. Also, I highly recommend MSnS. I was nervous going into it, but Zac had it up and running in a few hours. Ive been running on it for about a month and a half now. Ive been running a Fidanza flywheel for about a year now, once again huge difference and I suffer no issues. AC and all.

Don't get me wrong the LSD is a priority. Only reason on the delay is because of how expensive a quafie one is =P. It has been I'd say my #3 priority since August/September from the track and when I got stuck in a ditch... long story short, was trying to turn around in the country, would have been easily able to get out had I a LSD... #1 priority maintenance, and #2 AMM IM (once again only ahead because of price difference).

For MSnS I always hear the "highly recommend" yet like you I am nervous about it, i love the ease of the AF/X plug n play, and I am un-experienced and hate dealing with wiring and things like that. I think in the end I will eventually get it, and after selling the AF/X and SAFC it will be virtually free to get, but I know I will pay someone to install it for me.

Your experience with the flywheel pushes me more into the direction of getting it, I am a huge weight fanatic(rotational or static)!

Lastly I agree with MB on the "if your at 180 and not breaking 14s I'll come drive it" thingy. Especially with a LSD you should have no problem at all hitting 14s!

Originally posted by Fotowntalon

Originally posted by teklein The LSD should be a priority IMO. I have one. It made the car COMPLETELY different. Launching, turning, its like a ridiculous grip monster. Although I do run Tein Coilovers. My last dyno was at 121 which was on the stock ECU. I was revving the car to 6k then dropping the clutch to launch, it just took off. Also, I highly recommend MSnS. I was nervous going into it, but Zac had it up and running in a few hours. Ive been running on it for about a month and a half now. Ive been running a Fidanza flywheel for about a year now, once again huge difference and I suffer no issues. AC and all.

Don't get me wrong the LSD is a priority. Only reason on the delay is because of how expensive a quafie one is =P. It has been I'd say my #3 priority since August/September from the track and when I got stuck in a ditch... long story short, was trying to turn around in the country, would have been easily able to get out had I a LSD... #1 priority maintenance, and #2 AMM IM (once again only ahead because of price difference). For MSnS I always hear the "highly recommend" yet like you I am nervous about it, i love the ease of the AF/X plug n play, and I am un-experienced and hate dealing with wiring and things like that. I think in the end I will eventually get it, and after selling the AF/X and SAFC it will be virtually free to get, but I know I will pay someone to install it for me. Your experience with the flywheel pushes me more into the direction of getting it, I am a huge weight fanatic(rotational or static)! Lastly I agree with MB on the "if your at 180 and not breaking 14s I'll come drive it" thingy. Especially with a LSD you should have no problem at all hitting 14s!

Haha!

Yeah, but I will always be full interior, AC, stereo, all that stuff :P

And I held off on MSnS for a year and a half. I wish I had done it a year and a half ago.

Spending my last few days of unemployment wisely by researching and thinking about cars...

So a thing I know I need but havn't gotten around to buying -> wide band 02 needs to be in the mix.

Secondly, I am 75% sure I'm going to ditch the af/x+safc for MS... as long as i can get the help for installing it and Pure will tune it for me I see no reason why I shouldn't have it especially with my "lofty" goals :p . What I'm hoping this means, screw 12.1 lets go for the Howell 12.5 rebuild kit, also what are guy's feelings about long rods over standard? From the little I know about them I am liking the sound of them mainly the increased TQ (honestly who is really into cars that isn't in love with tq?) and higher rev speeds if, I read that right.

Lastly, Colby when you finally read this, and after I get the AMM IM installed we will have to meet up to see if the V2 will even fit before I buy one.

Edit: What the hell was that about, lol? Oopsy.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Edit: What the hell was that about, lol? Oopsy.

I was wondering that same thing, but figured you had a plan for it :P

this thread is freakn awesome

^+1^

Just the project name should net you you 200whp alone!!!

Seriously though, You can get away with a OBX LSD. I know how to rework it so it isn't junk. Like Mark said, Stay away from injetors untill you know you need them. If you want the cool non-modular clutch, then get the flywheel. Otherwise, our stock one weighs less. But that's not even really a flywheel, which is another conversation all together.

I would definitely get MS. You'll pooh when you feel the difference of a good tune. Get some real headers like Mark said, too....Here's the part of my post reserved for Mark's +1's and praise....

I also say get some custom 13:1 pistons and I would look into a custom cam setup like a Crane 3 exhaust with a Turbo2 intake.(purely for example sake) I have no idea if this cam setup would work but I have noticed talk about custom cam setups on Neons and they are talking about getting better results than with the traditional pairs.

while 13:1 does sound even sexier (as would something about that) my biggest fear is knock via not using race gas. Main thing holding my back (besides unlimited monies) is I still want it to be my DD.

Also you got a link to the neon forum on the switching cam stuff?

*edit*
when it comes closer to the time, we will have to discuss LSDs more in-depth, a reworked obx over quafie would save me just some chump change (yea, I wish $500 was chump change...) I am just scared of failing issues still or leaking issues as Mark said he had in the past. I guess failing shouldn't be to big of a risk, after all its a 4banging NA, but I trust obx products about as much as i trust *insert analogy of a very untrustworthy thing here*

Hell, you could put 3 gajillion horsepower through the OBX LSD with no problem....The amount of torque, however, zat ish debatable! Even though their R&D is horrible, the grade of steel that they use for it is not. It's just a matter of ripping it open and grinding down some sharp edges.

After searching through my computer's web history for the last hour, I found the cam conversation thread I was looking for and wouldn't you know it, it's a 2gnt thread! http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=112272&mesg_id=112272&page=&topic_page=14

I think the whole thread would be useful for you to study for a day or two. I know I have and it's for that reason that I will be using a split ratio cam setup. I've got some other ideas that I'll PM you about to help you hit your goal. I'd post them but it's all theory that I don't want being misconstrued.

Originally posted by LD25Delta9
....Here's the part of my post reserved for Mark's +1's and praise.... I also say get some custom 13:1 pistons and I would look into a custom cam setup like a Crane 3 exhaust with a Turbo2 intake.(purely for example sake) I have no idea if this cam setup would work but I have noticed talk about custom cam setups on Neons and they are talking about getting better results than with the traditional pairs.

:nuts What are you some kind of retard?!!!

Nah nah, just kidding. Yeah, even with MSnS I wouldn't put him into 13 to 1 because he wants to be daily driver. I think that 12.5 is on the fringe, but doable. BUT because I haven't done it and it is only my opinion based on my experiences, I'm not guaranteeing anything. But it is certainly something I'm close to comfortable with (especially with MSnS. Worst case scenario, you don't make as much power as the set-up's potential because you have to back the timing down. That's not saying you don't make power, just that you don't make the full potential of the set-up. But IMO, its going to work).

Now for cams (I hesitate to talk about cam numbers due to the multiple opinions and positions on what makes more power. A lot of times, the cams are going to tell you WHERE you're going to make power, as opposed to how much). Mix and matching cams is a doable thing, but alot of it is based in theory. (I'm going to be generic here and I honestly didn't read the link you posted - but I suspect that I have read it before, lol) People will look to alter numbers using 2 different cams. Some may want longer duration, some may want shorter duration, some may want shorter lift on a smaller valve, some may want larger lift on a larger valve, some may want shorter lift on a larger valve etc...Generically, that is done to move the power around (maybe you want a little more low end grunt or a little more top end etc). Keep in mind that generically (again that word, lol) you won't get as high a power level on the "larger" cam that you use, as if you used the matching pair of that power level.

Now here's what I think about cams; the cam guy who came up with the original cam numbers on the Crower's knew his shit well (I'm pert near positive that he's no longer there). I really liked the way he matched up his numbers. The only adjustments that have helped me on the dyno (with his Crower's) is an adjustment of the pair up or down (say they both go -2 degrees or both go +2 degrees. I haven't seen better curves - and more peak power - when I had the degree numbers different). When you start mix and matching on the cams, you will need a bit of dyno time to do that. You cannot go butt dyno on this! The butt dyno will fool you because it may feel like you hit a certain rpm range and then all of the sudden ZOOM she kicks in like V-Tak! Unfortunately, without dyno curves and numbers to look at, you won't know, if its because prior to the hit you were just low on power (than in comparison to a matched set) or you were making more power out of the unmatched set.

See where I'm going with this? In order to see what is really happening, you're going to need cold hard numbers. In order to get cold hard numbers, you're going to have to have access to a bit of dyno time (or you can possibly do it with track time). In order to change out the cams, you're going to need some labor time blah blah blah.

So at this point, I think the best path for Steve to take, would be the simplest (in terms of cam choices). But IMO, he shouldn't go below Crower 2 size for a couple o' few reason's. Not the least of which is cranking pressures. But certainly Crower 3's become a valid choice with MSnS.........

Oh and just a point of interest tangent; it looks like we can now order some Crane 28's for our cars (for like $550). They have them available for the Neon's again, so all we gotta do is a little math and flip flopping and they should be able to make us a set (but I want mine with slightly more duration).

Originally posted by bullettdsm
97 RS NA 13.194 @ 106.09 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 218.0whp with 175tq
96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
97 GSX 2.3 stroker built, FP Green, ECMLink etc.
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

damn mark... i didnt know u had so many dsms

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC

Originally posted by bullettdsm 97 RS NA 13.194 @ 106.09 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 218.0whp with 175tq 96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq 99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97 97 GSX 2.3 stroker built, FP Green, ECMLink etc. 99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

damn mark... i didnt know u had so many dsms

All that is missing now is 95 and 98 :)

Originally posted by megaskillz

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC

Originally posted by bullettdsm 97 RS NA 13.194 @ 106.09 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 218.0whp with 175tq 96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq 99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97 97 GSX 2.3 stroker built, FP Green, ECMLink etc. 99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

damn mark... i didnt know u had so many dsms

All that is missing now is 95 and 98 :)

Hahaha, I'm currently daily driving a 98 5sp! Selling it to my kid's girlfriend and I want to be sure that its ok. Up to 2400 miles on the rebuild.

Will probably never buy a 95. Just don't want to ever have to deal with the ECU problem.

Well I may be able to eliminate some things off my list for cheap, but I am torn whether to or not because of the mileage on the parts, so I bring it before the counsel! (I think I know what rshissler would say to this post, lol)
Anyways I found a fidanza flywhweel with 40k miles on it and tokico blues with 100k on them. What do you guys think about any failure issues?

The flywheel I have no beef with, normally the Fidanza flywheels have a steel or iron friction section, so its serviceable. The 100k Blues, I say go another route. 100k is a lot on suspension stuff.

Originally posted by Slo2g
The flywheel I have no beef with, normally the Fidanza flywheels have a steel or iron friction section, so its serviceable. The 100k Blues, I say go another route. 100k is a lot on suspension stuff.

Zac laying it out again. Agreed.

MB

So small update, told the guy to bill me for the flywheel (hopefully he didn't sell it yet). Also called up Pure Tuning(basically my closest shop) and they told me they can/do tune MSnS and the guy who has been doing most my work feels confident in me running 12.1, he said maybe even 12.5 but he would have to look up the specs on the Crower 2's. So feels like things are coming together. Hopefully I'll get my W2 soon so can file taxes and get a hold of AMM for the IM/Header combo!

I would recommend the OBX LSD. I can honestly say that I would buy another one if I were ever to need another one(say for another project). I've had mine installed for about 2 yrs and I have had no issues from it whatsoever and I'm boosted on 10 psi. Granted, this is mostly daily driving with the seasonal weekend drags as opposed to heavy racing, but I'd say it is very reliable as long as it is properly reworked/rebuilt. It should work well for your application.

that would be the same type of driving I do. I normally only hit the strip once a year though hoping to up that in the next few years to about once a month in the summer months but we shall see. But thanks for the info. I've herd some good things about the obx lsd (as long as it is rebuilt of course)I can see myself going that route because I am really not pushing that much HP (doubt it would even come close to 250-275 range at the crank) and for pure money savings to.

Currently banging my head against a wall trying to decide on the v2, Colby's data log of showing the V2 letting his engine breathe better than his ebay CAI + and a good deal I found is pushing me to the dark side. Thoughts?

Originally posted by bullettdsm Will probably never buy a 95. Just don't want to ever have to deal with the ECU problem.

It's on megasquirt...:(--just saying:)

mark you can have my 95 i dont want it. haha

Originally posted by itsaslow95
mark you can have my 95 i dont want it. haha

I know I said I wouldn't want a 95. Buuuuttt...if you're gonna GIVE me one as a present, well I would be rude to refuse :P

A little late, and not much I could add to this, but I'll give it a try...

First thing I'd do is dump the AFX/R+SAFC combo to immediately fund MSnS+wbO2. Pushing the mechanical limits of the platform with anything less than a tuning solution capable of running the show is just asking for problems.

Then there's the benefits:
- More power out of your current setup.
- Better economy around town when you aren't racing.
- Practice tuning on an old, soon-to-be rebuilt engine.
- Prepares you to maximize each modification you make moving forward.

Look at it this way: You're doing your research now so you don't install the wrong parts later. You want to make an informed decision unique to your situation - not just order up a list of cookie cutter forum parrot blather. Why would you want a cookie cutter, one-size-fits-all tuning solution at the heart of your build?

MSnS+wbO2 should be your first order of business.

Now, after you've got MSnS+wbO2 onboard, call up Mr. Frye here in Arizona and have him build you a true LTH. Neon guys were picking up 20-30whp with those five years ago and we STILL don't have a consistent market for them on our side of the table.

Work on your wheelmanship. For now, the only time you want to think about is your 60ft. Get your launch down. Consistency is the name of the game. Todd "The Machine" Scungio (aka: VX100) was running low 15s in a 95% stock RS years ago.

I'm no drag racer, but I know the first 60ft is all you. Building top end (which is what I know you'll have to balance if you want anything useful on the street) is simply a question of building the right head, fueling it properly, and keeping your foot in it. That first 60ft, though, that's where races are won and lost.

MSnS+wbO2+LTH+practice could get you deep into the 14s.

Good luck. I love it when an all motor plan comes together.

PS - If anyone is interested in Daisy's old engine, which has been pulling recreational commuter duty for the last couple years, I hear it's back on the market. ;)

Thanks for the input I am basically sold on the MSnS+Wideband. Right now its a matter of when the funds will be available and I can get it installed.

As for the 60ft, I wish there was an easier way for me to practice that didn't include going to the every other weekend on test and tune Fridays. But I completely agree. With my current Set-Up, I believe I am capable of around 14.6-14.7ish range with simply more seat time. When I broke 14's that was my 3rd run on slicks EVER. Every launch I did I know it could have been way better, from launching higher, to less time on the slipping of the clutch and things like that. Through just seat time and especially upgrading to an LSD, I would find it hard to not be below 14.5(at least I hope)

As for headers, I am interested to see where this will go. Obviously LTH's are sexy, but AMM seems fully confident in his header to outperform the current LTH's on MB's car. I guess this will just be something that we have to wait and see which is better and which would be better for my situation.

For VX100, I need him to drive my car :p. Or maybe ask him for some tips or something, the times he is laying down on a stock ECU just isn't right, but really goes to show how a good 60' is everything.

Once again, thanks for the information. I am mainly hoping I can do everyone proud by being at the forefront of representing the All Motor crowd. Baby steps, but its coming together.

**UPDATE**

Well I know I have been talking about the V2. Some love it some hate it. There is diffidently controversy over if it is a gimmick or not and if is really better than an AEM CAI, well



We will see =P. What can I say, for $120, I couldn't pass it up. I figure at the very least, it should serve as an upgrade via CAI to my SRI.

^^Hated it.

Hmm, I'm not liking that tubing diameter (at the TB side)for top end. Measure it up and see how much bigger it is than the 60mm TB. I like the idea of downsizing the tubing from the lower part of the intake to upper, but I'm not so sure on the diameter. Would love if someone would make a progrssive intake (like Peachy made on his "water" machine. The diameter was progressively expanded), but I don't think anybody has the machine for it.

FWIW, I dyno'ed the CAI and found that it died on the top end (in comparison to the SRI). But the CAI I used was a knock-off.

the smaller piping is the same size as my current SRI I believe. Measures at 2.5 inches.

I'm with you Mark, although I do think the V2 is the best bolt on intake(not custom). I would like to see one that has smooth transistions from each one so the turbulence is reduced from each pipe, I would think it would make a huge difference, esp on the top end. But its all just speculation.

For a street car, I think the V2 is pretty damn good. I did feel a difference (not just saying that), but I was using a cheap, beat up SRI prior to installing the V2. I have to admit it's pretty cool when I can't hear my exhaust (which is loud) over my engine noise at 5k since the V2 is like a megaphone. :P It always puts a smile on my face.

So yeah, got a good sunny day and spent about an hour removing the last bolt to the lower intake manifold (ended up taking a steak knife and cutting the plastic black box to get to the bolt). Now just waiting on tax money (getting sometime this week) and an PM from AMM and will be putting in my order!

Ordered My Tokico Illumina's all the way around today. Also got a hold of AMM, should be getting an invoice soon and will be shipping my part out sometime next week to have it become pretty =P

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
Ordered My Tokico Illumina's all the way around today. Also got a hold of AMM, should be getting an invoice soon and will be shipping my part out sometime next week to have it become pretty =P

Whoo!

Thats awesome man, I am waiting on him to write me back and say its a go for a LTH.

So you are driving my car in the quarter right? Lol!

Sure, I'm gonna need a $50 though (to go towards me buying some slicks of my own) =P

I LOVE ebay! Look what I just won for dirt cheap!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150566489780

So yesterday I dreamed of my new intake manifold... This is gonna be a long ass 6 week wait... Cant wait till the weather decides to stay warm (last week of February 60s, week 1 of march 30s, week 2 60s, week 3 started at 60s now down to 35s...) so I can do basic maintenance,my new shocks and intake... I feel god is toying with me

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
So yesterday I dreamed of my new intake manifold... This is gonna be a long ass 6 week wait... Cant wait till the weather decides to stay warm (last week of February 60s, week 1 of march 30s, week 2 60s, week 3 started at 60s now down to 35s...) so I can do basic maintenance,my new shocks and intake... I feel god is toying with me

Haha!

It will come man.

Ive had 70 degree weather for two weeks.

He's not toying w/ you, He's teaching you patience

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC
He's not toying w/ you, He's teaching you patience

AMM: zen patience maste, next door neighbor

Installed the V2 today finally (little trickier than I had originally thought it would be). And I got to say by just looking at it I don't see how I wont gain at least 2-3whp. I am saying this because the filter is soooooo much further away from the engine than with the SRI (colder air), and also because of the placement of the filter is right in that gap on the bumper, so should gain benefits from a ram air effect.

Bad news, I will have to take it off and find a good 3-5inches to cut off once my intake manifold gets here (AMM told me he should be starting on it this week and finishing hopefully by next week). Ground clearance is kind of an issue already, with the AMM IM it will diffidently scrape the ground without modification. I'll get some pictures up sometime this week.

#### another $70 spent on this damn V2 intake... Filter caught on something while driving and it got ripped off, $50 for a new filter, $10 for a 3.5" silicone hose (for when I modify it to make it short so it doesn't grab on things on the ground) and another $10 for hose clamps... lovely day..

LSD purchased (yes the good kind). I'd imagine early to mid May, I will begin installations. Right now extremely busy with work/birthdays/wedding crap, not to mention the whole 6 out of the 7 days of the week it is raining at the moment.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
LSD purchased

Excellent, that'll drop down your launch.

MB

Little update, I have received my LSD, actually did about a week ago. Saving up a few extra dollars for some more amsoil, tranny gaskets, and a driveshaft, so I can take care of all the maintenance when I install. Guessing 2-3 weeks until its in and running.

On a side note, suspecting that I may be getting bent over by AMM. IM was suppose to be about 2-3 weeks ago, have yet to be able to get a hold of him. Tried calling, texting, PMing, e-mailing, still nothing. Really would hate for a refund, much prefer just the intake...

post on neons.org? i know hes a vendor over there.. i also know he has done this before.. they really need to satrt removing vendors like this, i know he offers a nice service ( i have one of his manifolds) but all the run around and headache isnt needed.. GL!

What show is that from? it sounds super familiar, also thanks for the advice

I am now officially slipping! Limitedly of course

Hah! Nice bro.

The update we have all been waiting for.. well I have been waiting for




Will be modifying v2 today, and taping holes for the MAP and installing this weekend!

Never mind on the MAP, found it had already been done on the back.

Look at you putting on your big boy pants now! I guarantee you'll like the difference.

And what do we say, now that we have our shiny new precious?

Is it worth the wait? If so, perhaps it would be a good idea to revisit threads elsewhere demanding the blood of the maker. If not, how do you suppose showing off such an awesome piece of kit might impact someone else on the fence about ordering the same thing?

Not trying to be a dick, but every time AMM's phone number changes or he stops responding to PM/email, I start getting PM/email because I know him, personally, and know where he lives and builds these things.

If the product is not worth the agonizing wait and lack of communication, then it doesn't make sense to show it off when it finally arrives, as if shiny tig puddles make everything all better.

If the product IS worth the wait and stressful lack of communication, then it doesn't make sense to trip motherfucking balls all over the internet about it, riding high on the Wambulance, and trying to find any possible way to make sure AMM knows just how pissed you are about thing, if you're then going to hoist the product on high like some kind of dysfunctional trophy.

FoTown - this is not directed at you. This is meant for everyone, because there are always at least a dozen guys out there losing their shit over AMM's communication and logistics. The simple fact of the matter is this: By now, everyone should know AMM delivers - when he finally does deliver - exceptional, consistent quality pieces, but you're gonna have to wait it out... maybe much, much longer than you expected.

I'm not standing up for the way Mike runs his side hustle, because I know the biggest thing holding him back from making a killing at this full time is his own lack of financial planning. I'm just saying, AMM delays and lack of communication is nothing new. We've been dealing with this shit for years, now. If you are STILL sending him payment in advance for this stuff, then you're pretty much saying you're cool with being dicked around for a while.

Fool me once, shame on thee, but fool me again...

I give up.

On a serious note, that is a very, very nice intake manifold. Not sure what you paid but it looks like it was worth that and the wait. The man can definately work his way around metal. Now go get it dyno'd so we can see the numerical difference.

Anyone have one sitting around they would like to sell? :)

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick
I give up.

Im not scared ;)

@Dr1165
I feel I addressed most of what you said in my feedback post here
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=36&topic_id=650&mesg_id=670

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick
On a serious note, that is a very, very nice intake manifold. Not sure what you paid but it looks like it was worth that and the wait. The man can definately work his way around metal. Now go get it dyno'd so we can see the numerical difference.

His price is $450 for that exact thing, as for the dyno going to call tomorrow and see when I can get in, planning mid July, hoping between that and V2, and smooth transmission to hit ~160 but we will see, I am probably being over optimistic, but then again it looks like it should give a TON more whp than a simple stock IM that's matched to the TB. Plan on installing it this saturday, will post pics, and maybe a video shortly after.

Got the attachments switched over. Mike, left me 3 1/4 holes, found a 1/4 plug for the vacuum ports, and the brake booster is a 1/8 hole, but found an adapter at work thankfully.

Decided not to modify the V2 yet, because of how much further the TB opening sits on the AMM IM compared to stock if I angle it, it might fit perfectly according to my half ass measurements

Hoping to install combination of today and tomorrow, Dyno Date set for July 30th, I may grace my peasants with a small idle/rev video before then :P
WORLD RECORD! Stock intake manifold removed in under 45mins!

Having lots of problems dropping the new manifold in, super tight fit, think I am going to have to remove the heater hoses and fuel line to get everything in, then put them back on.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
Hoping to install combination of today and tomorrow, Dyno Date set for July 30th, I may grace my peasants with a small idle/rev video before then :P WORLD RECORD! Stock intake manifold removed in under 45mins! Having lots of problems dropping the new manifold in, super tight fit, think I am going to have to remove the heater hoses and fuel line to get everything in, then put them back on.

I dont know about world record, but you got me beat for damn sure. And forget about new manifold install time. That spanned 2 days for me.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
Having lots of problems dropping the new manifold in, super tight fit, think I am going to have to remove the heater hoses and fuel line to get everything in, then put them back on.

Hey, I tried to call you back. I was under a car at the time.

I didn't have problems with either car. BUT she was a tight fit. I believe I did the plenum in the hole first and then get the flange lined up in the alternator bracket hole Here you MAY have to clearance the bracket a little (i.e. grind out some metal). Definitely didn't have to remove the heater hoses. BUT to keep them away from the intake (for heat transference), you may want to zip tie them in a position that keeps them further away from the intake.

I text ya back mark, but so everyone knows, I removed the heater hoses and fuel lines cause I think they were catching one something, and it just dropped right in. I got 6 of the 8 bolts in and now time to rehook the hoses and fuel, TB and the new intake. (didn't get it done today because i did the update on my half hour lunch =P)
Only problem I am currently running into is the throttle body cable not being long enough and not sure what to do about that at the moment.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
Only problem I am currently running into is the throttle body cable not being long enough and not sure what to do about that at the moment.

Drill new holes in bracket


Wait, I just read your text. 4 inches? I'm guessing you still have the cruise cable in there?

Started new thread to not clog the build thread with an install
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=134496&mode=full

YouTube.com

Very nice start :thumbsup Now you just gotta tune to the intake.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Very nice start :thumbsup Now you just gotta tune to the intake.

July 30th good sir, July 30th

Shifter inserts arrived today! Don't think I said I was getting them, but I love energy suspension parts and it was only $13. Hopefully installing tomorrow.

nice build, congrats on your times. Checkout local craigslist seen someone sell 450's 650's 4g63 injectors fairly cheap. or on tuners classifeds maybe the facebook dsm group.

So its been FOREVER since this was last updated. Do to many many things going on in my life, and things not showing any chance of slowing down and the condition of my car I have hit a cross roads.

The crossroad I have hit, is spending much monies on restoring the car to new condition. By new condition I mean I am sure I will need a new transmission, or new clutch, probably both, complete suspension bushing set, all new silicone hoses for all paths for the radiator fluids (in the process of), possibly new brake lines, and slave and/or master cylinder for the clutch. Basically I just don't have the time anymore to be tweaking all these tons of little things that you are constantly putting up with in a 15 year old plus car. So that is what I mean by "new quality". And that is my dilemma, do I want to sink a ton of money (all that listed along with rebuild plans) Vs. the possibility of selling and using tax money for a nice decent DD. I know, not news many people want to hear. I will be honest though and say right now I am at a 60/40 decision(60 for keeping).

Another update. If I do decide to keep the car, I think I will be going in a slightly different direction with the rebuild. Still a 12.5 revving to 9k, but with a 2.2L stroker done, and bored to .040 over. One of my biggest reasons for this, is if I go this route I can get everything for the rebuild for under a grand, which is pretty disgusting through my connections. Still with MS, and with a 60mm TB. So I don't know, thoughts, feelings, comments?