95 Gs with 94k and the main bearings n crank went bad.

Got her stripped down yesterday.and so far this is my list/idea's.

95 block needs notching.
Cleavite Main and Rod bearings 100?
If possible, turn and polish crank to save $$$
CP Pistons .20 over bore & Eagle H beams & 20g turbo-600
Felpro MLS Head gasket. 40
Ebay gasket kit 60 or the 165 Felpro full kit.
OEM Head bolts 50?
Block-.20 bore,hone, hot tank,deck 225
Head-chemical wash and deck- 80
New crankshaft sprocket

Im sure theirs others Im forgetting.

Now how much hp and boost will OEM Head bolts hold up to if i turbo it with the 20g turbo? enough to run 15psi? Of course Im not gonna just strap the turbo on and crank it to 15psi ill start at 8psi until the engine is fully broken in, or break the engine in first?

But does all this sound like a pretty solid build and will last?

Get ARPs the first time so you wont waste $50 and end up getting them anyway. Also, invest in some stiffer valve springs to keep the risk of valve float down. Other than that, looks okay to me.

Oh, I noticed that you didn't have any fuel upgrades listed. Don't forget about that. More air isn't going to do you any good without more fuel.

Well how i looked at it is im gonna focus on the bottom end right now and once i get some money saved up have a head ported polished and rebuilt with all new valves, springs..etc

As for fuel if i have enough left over I got a guy where i can get 450cc injectors for 30 bucks. If he still has them, and Im gonna look to invest in a wally 255.

So even if i get this kit:


http://www.eportuning.com/Engine-Gasket-Head-Set/Mitsubishi/Eclipse/95-99-Mitsubishi-Eclipse-420A-Non-Turbo-20-DOHC-Head-Gasket-Set-p5459479-2-2.html

I can just upgrade to a felpro hg and be good?


oh yea, headbolts i thought i would swap out when i swapped the head for a built one. what do ya think?

I would go with name brand on ALL gaskets and I only use Felpro, because best case gasket failure means you have an embaressing oil leak. WORST case senario your precious time & money go down the drain.

Plus I'm gonna have to agree with eclipserstturbo on getting ARP headbolts. Cause I think factory bolts are stretch bolts and can't be reused. Im not sure on that though.

But it's still a matter of save money now and waste money later or save money now and save money later. Personally I love money so I do thinks right the first time if possible, so I'm not spending extra money on getting the better parts later.

Go with ARPs the first time. You can reuse them when you swap the head.

Also, do not use a cheap gasket set. I did that the first time and had to redo 4 months later.

Chrysler Parts Direct sells the Mopar upper set for 92.XX, go with that! Upper set comes with MLS HG, valve cover, cam seals, etc.

See i just thought i would be able to make it by with the OEM head bolts for a little while on low boost. maybe 12psi at max until i can afford the head and ARP head bolts. And for gaskets i figured the one i posted in the link since it looks like a fair deal and for a good price. All depends on how much cash i have left over to work with after buying my pistons rods turbo head and block machining bearings and crank/crank turn.

So it would be a waste to buy anything but felpro cause it wont last as long?

You can use any type of NAME brand gaskets as long as it's a good name brand. A waste would be spending $50 on oem head bolts then spending $100 on ARP bolts. Dont waste the extra $50 on stock bolts that can only be used once. ARP is reusuable, stock isn't reusable.

Originally posted by Fasttopass
stock isn't reusable.

Stock is reusable.

Originally posted by bullettdsm

Originally posted by Fasttopass stock isn't reusable.

Stock is reusable.

Really?

They are torque to yield bolts, so they are not reusable.

EDIT: I did some research on Neons.org and found that Jeff Ball (2.4 12.5cr) reuses his after checking them for stretch. My mind is blown, but this seems like some people do and some people dont.

Well damn. If there reusable than just use your old bolts after checking them for stretch. Just PLEASE don't waste money on buying stock bolts then replace them with arp's

from what i can tell, you dont know enough about fuel managment, do some research on it, because 450cc injectors and a wally, aren't going to be enough for even 4 psi lol, you need to look into an sfmu or fmu but with either those you cant go more than 12 psi...If fmu, you cant fass 8psi haha...just dont want you to put all this money thinking your going to turbo your car with that list :D

Originally posted by teklein

Originally posted by bullettdsm

Originally posted by Fasttopass stock isn't reusable.

Stock is reusable.

Really? They are torque to yield bolts, so they are not reusable. EDIT: I did some research on Neons.org and found that Jeff Ball (2.4 12.5cr) reuses his after checking them for stretch. My mind is blown, but this seems like some people do and some people dont.

Torque to yield means they could be stretched...Doesn't mean they are not reusable...I used them on the rebuilt motor I last had...70K AND STILL GOING...But if your going to run boost...ARP...Hands down.

they can be reused but not recommened. according to the FSM, if they stretch (which you might not be able to see with the naked eye), then don't reuse them. I say ARP all the way.

I agree on head bolts also, don't buy OEM. When thinking about my own motor my biggest fear is leaking between the head and the block. I have bad dreams at night, wake up in cold sweats, sometimes I pee a little, it's not good. If anti-freeze gets in your crankcase kiss all your work on the bottom end goodbuy. One question though, do you have all the parts to turbo it yet? Just wondering because if it was me I would spend my money on building the head so I only had to pull the motor once. I know its possible to pull the head with the block still in the car but I've done it and it is a bitch not to mention you could break in your engine a couple thousand miles before the turbo. Also what compression are your pistons, did you drop to a high 8? Of course all these things I say are just in my humble opinion and I'm way looking forward to pictures and how this build goes! Good luck man.

I ended up going with a completely diff idea inspired by a few other people and bulletdsm.

Im getting Wiseco 10.5:1 cr pistons. coated skirts.
eagle rods.
block n head work was all checked out n fixed.
king main and rod bearings.


This was supposed to be basically a rebuild that turned into a built bottom end.

On the turbo parts, as of now i have nothing. I figured after i get her broken in i want to run.
14b at 10-15psi
The correct FI's i need. 330-450cc?
fmic and all the piping.
wally 255 fp
and whatever i can use to get away with running 15psi on a 14b turbo.

Are you going to use MS?

I would like to try and stay away with Megasquirt as it seems too complicated at this time, but if its the only way i can run 15psi then im gonna have to. I was thinking maybe a portfueler.

Originally posted by ryan95eclipse
I would like to try and stay away with Megasquirt as it seems too complicated at this time, but if its the only way i can run 15psi then im gonna have to. I was thinking maybe a portfueler.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you wont need to buy injectors with the portfueler system. Also if your going to to tweak anything in the future I would get the program to reprogram the portfueler from Hahn. Does anyone know what they are charging for the program? It doesn't come with it right?

It all comes together as a full kit. I was able to talk Bill Hahn down to around $1K total (that includes shipping) for a full PF stage 5 kit that came with the tuning software.

PF is good up to 27psi and is a great tuning tool that is very easy to install and use. If you only plan on running a small 14B turbo at 15psi, than I personally think PF is a great option since you will not have to touch the stock spark map.

My only suggestion would be to get a nice datalogging tool such as Zt-2. This way you can log pulls and lean out the default PF map which is pig rich.

I imagine he'll have to change the spark map due to the fact he's going 10.5 CP.

A hahn pf runs around 1k? Well damn!

Sounds pretty good if i can get away with a portfueler kit. Im a newbie to this tuning stuff along with this being my first rebuild/build. I dont think ill plan to go over 27psi for quite a while until i have a new and built head with lower cr pistons.


Looking for that power from the pedal until i can go turbo.


Unless its much easier to tune on 8.8:1 then i may consider switching cr before i buy.

But what about the spark map? Wouldnt spark stay the same if the compression is higher? and with lowish boost?

Originally posted by ryan95eclipse
A hahn pf runs around 1k? Well damn! Sounds pretty good if i can get away with a portfueler kit. Im a newbie to this tuning stuff along with this being my first rebuild/build. I dont think ill plan to go over 27psi for quite a while until i have a new and built head with lower cr pistons. Looking for that power from the pedal until i can go turbo. Unless its much easier to tune on 8.8:1 then i may consider switching cr before i buy. But what about the spark map? Wouldnt spark stay the same if the compression is higher? and with lowish boost?

I think you would get better advice from everyone we knew your goals. Is it your DD? When do you honestly think you can have the money to turbo it? Personally I'm not a huge fan of spending extra money buying 2 sets of pistons and paying for two seperate block builds. However, I can understand if you can't do it for another 5 years you don't want to drive a low compression piston on a non-turbo car. My moto has always been build it right the first time but if it's not in the books it's not in the books. Personally I wouldn't run a higher compression than stock (9.6:1) and a turbo. Its really hard on your rig and you risk detonation.

IMO If you need to rebuild the block because of a bad crank don't buy high compression pistons, there are a lot of all motor guys out there that will tell you its a lot of work to get hp going NA. I would take the hit of dropping in 8.8:1 till you can turbo it, that way at least the block is ready and can handle more than the stock pistons. You wont notice a HUGE difference between 8.8:1 and 9.6:1 and it will save you huge money. I was trying to find a formula to figure out the hp dif between high cp pistons and 8.8:1 with low boost because you have to figure in atmospheric pressure but I lost interest. Maybe the smarter and more knowledgeable members can figure that out for you.

Also with high compression and low boost I'm pretty sure you would have to adjust spark because compressed air is hot air and thats what causes the pre-ignition or pinging. Maybe I could get a second on this cause im not totally sure.

it will be my DD and i prolly wont have money for a turbo kit for another maybe i would say 6 months at most. before DSM shootout im planning on having it boosted.

i am really considering 8.8:1 since i can throw more boost and have less risks.

i read a forum not to long ago that said having your head n block shaved can raise compression ratio a little bit. so 881 could go up... if thats true or not?

Hell 6 months! You almost need MORE time to break in the pistons! Haahaa jk. If you don't get it turboed by the shootout just put a turbo exhaust tip on it from Walmart like the rice-patch-kids! All joking aside... when are we going to see some freakin pics man?!

Well im still waiting on my damn bearings from cimotorsports :shrug and then i can put in my freshly redone crank :) Just gotta figure out which way im gonna paint the bedplate. Got my block painted white the best i can. ( crap old paint) but ill toss a couple pics up now of what i got. And 6 months is plentyyyy of time to break in pistons the way i drive. lol Im gonna drive everywhere. Gotta show her off to all the honda ricers around the corner!

For all my 420a guys i attached a whole bunch of photos i have on my laptop for ya. of my current car and a couple others me and the girlfriend have/had.



http://s1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/ryan95eclipse/

As for my post above, I did not take into consideration that you were now thinking of using high compression internals. If you did decide to go the high comp route, than as stated above, some spark retard will likely be necessary even with a small turbo like the 14B.

If you go with the typical low comp turbo build and want to run around 15psi on the 14B, PF would be a great option and no spark tuning will be necessary. I run the S16G turbo with PF tuned to 16psi and am on stock spark. Haven't had any issues..knock on wood. I have my A/F map tuned to 11.5 across the board at WOT and it runs like a dream.

If you are looking for some good numbers but want reliability, do yourself a favor and build a low comp block.

Ebster. That was one of the best answers i have gotten yet imo. I am gonna switch it to 881 compression for this build as it will be my first.

What other mods are you using and do you know how much power your talking? I am just looking to break to 275-300hp mark once i turbo it.

Glad I was able to help out.

You can find my full mods list on page 3 of my Cardomain page:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/766280/1999-mitsubishi-eclipse

As far as power, I have not had the car on a dyno, but would imagine I am somewhere around 280whp. If you are looking to make between 275-300whp, you may want to reconsider running the 14B. That is a small turbo with great response, but you will just be blowing hot air if you really turn the boost up.

Everyone is going to have a different opinion on what turbo you should run, but if I had to make a recommendation for your power goals I would say to look for either a 16G or a T28 ball bearing. Those are good turbos, not outrageously big, and will certainly be able to meet your power goals.

Originally posted by Ebster1085
Glad I was able to help out. You can find my full mods list on page 3 of my Cardomain page: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/766280/1999-mitsubishi-eclipse As far as power, I have not had the car on a dyno, but would imagine I am somewhere around 280whp. If you are looking to make between 275-300whp, you may want to reconsider running the 14B. That is a small turbo with great response, but you will just be blowing hot air if you really turn the boost up. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on what turbo you should run, but if I had to make a recommendation for your power goals I would say to look for either a 16G or a T28 ball bearing. Those are good turbos, not outrageously big, and will certainly be able to meet your power goals.

I have to agreee with ebster on this one i would highly recomend rethinking the 14b ! Now the 16g an the ballbearing t28 are great turbos for ur build and hp range . I used the 14 b on my 1st build and 14b was a big waste of time in my opion..I did go to a larger turbo than a 16g.I went to a ar60 and or the 60-1 that has been a great turbo and i hit the 300 horse range easly with it..But i would research alil more on what turbo would fit ur likings first then go from there.

Ok that helps a lot. Im thinking whatever is in my price range at the time ill end up picking up. If i can grab a 14b for 50-100 bucks I prolly will just until i can afford a bigger turbo.


Eventually I will prolly want to move up to a 20g or maybe a gt35r when the time is right. My bearings arrive tomorrow and then the crank will be going in. Still waiting for some damn pistons.

Originally posted by teklein

Originally posted by bullettdsm

Originally posted by Fasttopass stock isn't reusable.

Stock is reusable.

Really? They are torque to yield bolts, so they are not reusable. EDIT: I did some research on Neons.org and found that Jeff Ball (2.4 12.5cr) reuses his after checking them for stretch. My mind is blown, but this seems like some people do and some people dont.

I was just going to bring this up. JeffB has shown time and time again that you can reuse head bolts on these motors. As for strength, 99.9% of people here DO NOT NEED arp headstuds. I made 357 whp on my 2.0 and 498 whp on my 2.4, both on stock head bolts.

Best of luck with your rebuild, it's not bad as long as you measure everything really good. I've built 4 motors for different cars now, and never had a single issue on any of them.

--mark

Thats AWESOME to know. i actually bought new OEM head bolts just to be safe of stripping.

Im getting my bearings tomorrow and if the weather if warmer im gonna be putting my crank in. i know i have to clean and dip my main studs in oil before putting them in. Is there a pattern they should be tightened in? What type of loctite on the bedplate and block? And my RMS(rear main seal) What is the correct way to install this?

Originally posted by ryan95eclipse
Thats AWESOME to know. i actually bought new OEM head bolts just to be safe of stripping. Im getting my bearings tomorrow and if the weather if warmer im gonna be putting my crank in. i know i have to clean and dip my main studs in oil before putting them in. Is there a pattern they should be tightened in? What type of loctite on the bedplate and block? And my RMS(rear main seal) What is the correct way to install this?

There is absolutely a pattern in tightening. I would invest in a factory service manual, or download one online before you reassemble anything. The torque order can be complex, often taking 3 rounds to fully torque things down. Doing it wrong could throw it off just enough to ruin the crank upon startup.

That manual will answer all of your installation questions.

I have a chilton manual on 94-98? eclipses and talons. I was reading you do it in sets. But i dont quite understand the thread on here. like for example it says for the head tighten short bolts to for example say 25lbs, then long bolts to 40lbs then short again 25lbs. would i be tightening the short to 50lbs the second time? or just making sure after i tighten the long bolts, the shorts ones remain at 25lbs? if that makes sense

Originally posted by ryan95eclipse
I have a chilton manual on 94-98? eclipses and talons. I was reading you do it in sets. But i dont quite understand the thread on here. like for example it says for the head tighten short bolts to for example say 25lbs, then long bolts to 40lbs then short again 25lbs. would i be tightening the short to 50lbs the second time? or just making sure after i tighten the long bolts, the shorts ones remain at 25lbs? if that makes sense

Don't go to 50lbs it's just making sure that it stays at 25lbs. Take your time on this step it should also say that you need to go a 90 degree turn after everything is torqued. Check, double check and then check again, this is one of those things that isn't going to be forgiving if you screw it up.

Please do not post torque specs unless you are quoting the FSM or other source. No "I do not remember exactly" sort of answers.

To the OP: Download the FSM as it is the bible on reassembly. Additionally, your question regarding the bedplate sealant has been covered too many times. Search.

You do 25# a second time, because in the tightening process, they may loosen up as tolerances change.

Ok thats what i thought just wanted to make sure. I been taking notes actually and am gonna take my time to make things perfect. Yes i know i gotta do a 1/4 turn after torqing.

Please excuse me for using EXAMPLES as i stated since i didnt feel the need to look up torque specs, Im sure everyone else read that and understood what i was asking.

Originally posted by ryan95eclipse
Ok thats what i thought just wanted to make sure. I been taking notes actually and am gonna take my time to make things perfect. Yes i know i gotta do a 1/4 turn after torqing. Please excuse me for using EXAMPLES as i stated since i didnt feel the need to look up torque specs, Im sure everyone else read that and understood what i was asking.

Yeah, I knew exactly what you meant. Been there, done that, and I am glad to share my experience, so no one makes simple mistakes!

--mark

Originally posted by ryan95eclipse
Thats AWESOME to know. i actually bought new OEM head bolts just to be safe of stripping. Im getting my bearings tomorrow and if the weather if warmer im gonna be putting my crank in. i know i have to clean and dip my main studs in oil before putting them in. Is there a pattern they should be tightened in? What type of loctite on the bedplate and block? And my RMS(rear main seal) What is the correct way to install this?

Also a word of advice, I wouldn't dip the bolts in oil. The reason is because if too much oil gets on the bolts it could pool at the bottom of the threads and give a false torque number. Just put a little oil on your finger and rub it into the threads so that they are coated but the oil hasn't "filled" the thread. I hope that doesn't sound too confusing. If it's not clear what I'm saying drink a beer and read it again.

Originally posted by Shake_Zulla

Originally posted by ryan95eclipse Thats AWESOME to know. i actually bought new OEM head bolts just to be safe of stripping. Im getting my bearings tomorrow and if the weather if warmer im gonna be putting my crank in. i know i have to clean and dip my main studs in oil before putting them in. Is there a pattern they should be tightened in? What type of loctite on the bedplate and block? And my RMS(rear main seal) What is the correct way to install this?

Also a word of advice, I wouldn't dip the bolts in oil. The reason is because if too much oil gets on the bolts it could pool at the bottom of the threads and give a false torque number. Just put a little oil on your finger and rub it into the threads so that they are coated but the oil hasn't "filled" the thread. I hope that doesn't sound too confusing. If it's not clear what I'm saying drink a beer and read it again.

Hah, you're probably right, but I've never had an issue. I usually dip the bottom 10 threads or so in a new bottle of oil, and then let it drip off for a few seconds, then install. I could see if you dipped oil up the entire bolt, and didn't let it drip, that it could hydrolock up in there before reaching the desired torque.

Oh yea i never planned on doing that. Im too nervous to really do anything to mess it up. I read it on here not to do that. I planned on just rubbing oil on it. What should i use to put on my block and bedplate?

Originally posted by ryan95eclipse
Oh yea i never planned on doing that. Im too nervous to really do anything to mess it up. I read it on here not to do that. I planned on just rubbing oil on it. What should i use to put on my block and bedplate?

To seal the bedplate and block together? The Mitsu part number is in the FSM, but you can buy it at any parts store too. It's called "bedplate sealant". The Mopar stuff used to be red, but I think it's green now. It's basically like an RTV type fluid that doesn't dry from the air. When it compresses between the bedplate and block under large amounts of pressure, it creates a great seal.

Ok thanks a lot! One more thing. Can you install the rear main seal by putting it on the crank, setting the crank in the block and then bolting the bedplate down? or does it HAVE to be tapped in after the crank is installed with the bedplate?

Bearings came in today. Lets hope their the correct ones!

I believe the rear main needs to be installed once the crank has been sandwhiched between the block and the bedplate. Simple install. If you don't have the actual tool (which you really don't need) just make sure you install it evenly and slowly. Get it to at least flush with the lip on the block, or a millimeter below flush, and you will be set. Do yourself a favor and buy a Mopar rear main seal directly from the dealer.

Ok I actually felt lazy today but no rush without pistons or the rest of the little bits n pieces. lol I ended up buying the Felpro Rear main seal. Are they good still?

My bearings came in, cimotorsports ended up giving me clevite 77 rod bearings instead of king. :)