If I can't get to the track, I might as well dyno. Switched to a 65mm Mustang TB on the NA and got a few more ponies out of her (previous 214.1whp). Just basically posting it up so that I can keep a record of the changes etc. and what they added.

Oddly, she took a degree more timing with the 65mm. Curious......

Nice..!

That's the way to go, if you can't race it go and tune it..!

BTW, how is the turbo car going along?

Awesome man. Good to see you can still squeeze a little more power out with some bolt ons. Are you hoping to run a 12.999999999999 this year?

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick
Are you hoping to run a 12.999999999999 this year?

I'm hoping to just be able to run. Weather and work getting in the way.

The turbo is just sitting and waiting for an opportunity also.......

thats really nice. very good mark.

218whp all motor, stock displacement. Damn.

You are the man, sir. I know you tend to stay out of trouble in Norwalk, but you should drink for free.

Originally posted by DR1665
I know you tend to stay out of trouble in Norwalk, but you should drink for free.

Thanks Bri, I bow down to you as one of my original motivators :bowdown BUT you would NOT want this ^^ to happen.

You ever see that show called "Prison"? I can about guarantee that you and anybody around me would end up living it. I am an absolute retard on alky (well much more so than normal).

On another note, I am seriously considering dumping the turbo. Just too much time and effort to get it to the track etc, with pretty much NO interest in it for me. It cuts into the time and money that I can spend on a more interesting effort, the NA. I mean, where's the challenge in turbo power? Just throw some money at it and viola'. But with NA its not about the money its about the design and thought process. Now that's a challenge.

If not for the fact that I have to run a 900whp Honda at our dragday, I would start the part out.

that's a shame.... no more turbo car for bullet... :(

But I guess we all want a piece of that nice setup....

So let us know what parts will you be selling... if posible let me know first ...lol

Cheers, bullet.

What happend at the SO.

I'm still amazed at how far you've come. I have the stock TB off my mustang, which is actually 66.8mm, only year they came that size. You want it?

I went to a 75mm on my mustang with C&L upper, inlet, 80mm MAF, and 24# injectors. If I could ever get traction, it'd probably run pretty good, but even with my 315's, it still spins going into 3rd on the track.

Originally posted by cougar694u
I'm still amazed at how far you've come. I have the stock TB off my mustang, which is actually 66.8mm, only year they came that size. You want it?

Um, yeah! That may get me that extra 2whp to put me over 220whp. Plus it will be helpful for the high comp motor I'm working on. Can't just jump into ITB's. But at what cost glory?

Originally posted by cougar694uI went to a 75mm on my mustang with C&L upper, inlet, 80mm MAF, and 24# injectors. If I could ever get traction, it'd probably run pretty good, but even with my 315's, it still spins going into 3rd on the track.

Slicks at 6-8 pounds, lol......hairy but you'll hook :shrug

I run 11psi in my cougar, but tubes in my slicks (ET streets, essentially the same). I've actually found I get better traction with tubes vs tubeless slicks.

The bolt patterns the same, the offset's way off, and I don't have access to 17" slicks, or 15" rims.

PM me your address and I'll try to send that TB soon.

**EDIT**
What year TB did you use? I'm assuming it's the 4.6l, 96-04? In 99 they were 66.8, but all others seemed to be 65.

The guy I bought it from said it was off a 96, but I don't really know. Al I know was that from the pic that I saw, it had the correct pull for the throttle cable and it had a 5v TPS. The rest was just make it physically fit.

Funny about the tubes. I have yet to run tubes in any of my cars though. So I can't really say one way or the other.

Pm sent.

How hard was it to mod the mustang throttle body? Was it just swapping sensors and plug and play? Or is there more work to it like the jeep throttle bodys?

Would this be beneficial for someone with not as much done to their car (as opposed to you)?

My mod list...
01: Megan Racing 57mm air intake
01: Spectre Performance air filter
02: Megan Racing cat-back exhaust
03: Pacesetter high flow cat
04: Megan Racing exhaust header
05: Howell Automotive 55mm Throttle Body
06: Ported Intake Manifold (bored inlet to 55mm)
07: Crower stage 2 NA camshafts
07: AEM cam gears
08: Howell Automotive AFX underdrive pulley.

Or would you suggest for someone like me to just upgrade to the 60mm TB and slowly keep building up from there?

i called Megan Racing and they told me that since not too many people were interested in their original intakes that they stopped making them. Then i mentioned about my wanting to upgrade my throttle body to 60mm and i saw your post on here about the 65mm TB and they said with the piping they had lying around they could build me a prototype intake with 76mm (that's 3 inches, compared to their original 57mm (2.25)intake piping). Would i notice any change between the 3 inch tubing (better or worse) at my current setup? Would going to a 60mm TB as well change anything (again, for the better or worse) with my current setup? Or is this all a bad idea and will kill my precious ponies?

i have looked about the going bigger and such and it all seems so controversial. Some people (off another site) say it will only be beneficial if/when you go turbo. Some people say it doesn't matter as long as it's all roughly even (what that means, i don't know). You seem to pull it off fine though.

Please feel free to jump in and school me in all of this fun stuff.

NEAR FUTURE MODS:
Aeromotive 1:1 FPR
3 inch intake (unless told why NOT to do it)
60mm TB (unless told i'm good for 65mm)
PnP intake mani
...We will see...

Would a neon srt-4 throttle body or a evo VII - VIX or even the evo X throttle body work in our cars?

Boomba Racing sells 75mm throttle bodies for those cars. So i thought i would ask.

http://www.boombaracing.com/evo10.html

Given i know you said to just jump to the 60mm for me... i'm thinking about you and your 220HP mark :)

Originally posted by nothingfiction
Would a neon srt-4 throttle body or a evo VII - VIX or even the evo X throttle body work in our cars? Boomba Racing sells 75mm throttle bodies for those cars. So i thought i would ask. http://www.boombaracing.com/evo10.html Given i know you said to just jump to the 60mm for me... i'm thinking about you and your 220HP mark :)

I just hopped back on this thread as I was searching for something and I didn't see your last line in your post (I thought you were thinking about the 75mm for your set-up).

75mm would be just too big (even for the high comp set-up). Just too much volume to move with not enough draw in the engine (ie loss of velocity) to use it.

Now 75mm on a turbo 420a would be a different story.......

that's great work. cant wait to start building the engine.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
But with NA its not about the money its about the design and thought process.

Word.

There's just something about an engine that does it all by itself that feels good, ya know? I mean, it's cool to feel the slingshot acceleration of a turbocharged car, but naturally aspirated is just too much fun.

Originally posted by DR1665
There's just something about an engine that does it all by itself that feels good, ya know?

I do know. I prefer no performance enhancing drugs.

Originally posted by cougar694u

Originally posted by DR1665 There's just something about an engine that does it all by itself that feels good, ya know?

I do know. I prefer no performance enhancing drugs.

I feel you guys. Anyone can slap a Turbo on a car and make numbers, its fun making some decent power on a 4 cylinder with no Turbo. Im going to the track tomarrow.

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick
Im going to the track tomarrow.

Yessssss.....

Hey if I can't get to the track, I'll live vicariously through you (so you damn well better do good :wary )

Originally posted by bullettdsm

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick Im going to the track tomarrow.

Yessssss..... Hey if I can't get to the track, I'll live vicariously through you (so you damn well better do good :wary )

I was thinking the same thing. I need to do the disk brake conversion on the cougar and install my brake controller in the expedition and hit the road!

First off grats on the numbers bullet, you are one of the main reasons I am sticking with the NA platform, and I can't wait to see the ITB setup!

As for you Turbobrick, your suppose to wait till this years shootout, I can't have ya hitting 14s before me! I guess I will swallow my pride and wish ya luck, just know your my main rival in August :P.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
First off grats on the numbers bullet, you are one of the main reasons I am sticking with the NA platform, and I can't wait to see the ITB setup! As for you Turbobrick, your suppose to wait till this years shootout, I can't have ya hitting 14s before me! I guess I will swallow my pride and wish ya luck, just know your my main rival in August :P.

Well...you dont have anything to worry about yet..Im about to post a thread with tonights results.

But we will see how the shootout goes. Hopefully I can bug the shit out of Mark for some of his NA car wisdom again, lol.

No! I'm busy bugging mark with info! lol, I feel bad for him, here he is trying to hit better numbers and hopefully break into the 12's and he's got us constantly fighting/pestering him trying to get into the 14's. But as much as I know he loves the little rivalry between me and you, I'm gonna stop posting here before this turns into a thread hijack and leave it with a salute to the 420a king.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
No! I'm busy bugging mark with info! lol, I feel bad for him, here he is trying to hit better numbers and hopefully break into the 12's and he's got us constantly fighting/pestering him trying to get into the 14's.

Lol, pester away. I'm loving that there are some people going in the proper direction

Originally posted by FotowntalonBut as much as I know he loves the little rivalry between me and you

Heh heh, yup :thumbsup

Originally posted by FotowntalonI'm gonna stop posting here before this turns into a thread hijack and leave it with a salute to the 420a king.

Nah, hijack away. Like I said, the only reason I posted up was so that I could keep a history of the changes etc. I'm just glad others are talking about NA. Keep in mind my 13.9 daily, you could hop in, fill her up at any gas station and drive for hundreds of miles with the radio blaring (and heat if you wanted it) with no concerns at all about a break down. That car could hot lap all day long. THOSE are the bonuses of the NA avenue.

Keep in mind my 13.9 daily, you could hop in, fill her up at any gas station and drive for hundreds of miles with the radio blaring (and heat if you wanted it) with no concerns at all about a break down. That car could hot lap all day long. THOSE are the bonuses of the NA avenue.

That's why I love the NA platform! Do you know of any official list of the top NA whp and 1/4 times? We all know you got 1st, but in competing for 2nd place it would be nice to know, and DSMtuners database doesn't seem to be that collective for the 420a. As for this site, I'm still getting use to the layout and format so not sure what all is around here.

On the 2GNT home page, not the forums, if you go down and click on cars, records, they have a few dyno charts and 1/4 mile times

I saw that, even that just seems like their isn't much their. I guess I just find it hard to believe how little people are above the 160whp mark. Is bullet the only other 420a NA to run 14's

Ok, nothingfiction, 60mm would be the highest I would go on pretty much ANY NA set-up. You will lose too much velocity and low end with your current set-up. You won't be able to take advantage of the extra area in the 65mm. You would still need a tuner, some higher comp, a bigger set of cams, an LTH and a big port etc. (read air flow) to take advantage of a 65mm TB (which incidentally was close to a bolt on affair - with MSnS. It has a 5v TPS and the same direction throttle pull as our car. I just had to open up the hole for the cable barrel and port the opening of it a little for our barrel to fit. Then I clearanced the exterior of the TB venturi so that I could use the same mounting holes. And then of course open up the intake hole). Keep in mind that this was my LAST modification.

Originally posted by Fotowntalon
I guess I just find it hard to believe how little people are above the 160whp mark. Is bullet the only other 420a NA to run 14's

Ok, in my little historic search, here's what I've come up with;
There have been a couple of people who have broken into the 14's NA (not counting me - and I have done it with multiple cars on multiple set-ups - so it is doable). There was one gentleman (and you can search around on here to get his name) prior to me even getting involved, that just barely broke into the 14's (14.9ish). And there was another gentleman who ran off a 14.6 (I believe that was Billy Mack? or some kind of crap like that. But there is a little controversy to that one. He clipped off a 14.6 - I think it was even at a Shoot Out - and then promptly sold the car. There were whispers that he was spraying in order to get that but in any event those are the numbers).

Now in the "still running and ready to go" category, the number 2 man is old timer Todd (VX100 on here - and he may be able to tell you a little more detail on other 1/4 times) with a 15.178.

As for dyno numbers (keeping in mind the typical disclaimer that dyno's are for tuning and not comparing numbers. Its just a fun thing we do. That's why I use the Dyno Dynamics. Its well known as the "heartbreaker" of dyno's because of its lower numbers. So there isn't any questioning on what my numbers come up to be. If anything they are lower than what I would get on other dyno's......But I digress), brick, my good man, is in second place. His numbers are the 2nd highest verifiable numbers that I have seen (one of the reason's you really shouldn't put down 170whp. You should put down the actual numbers). And whatever dyno is being used, it should be at least be ase corrected

Now that word verifiable. I have seen plenty of stuff posted about my buddy did this and my friends mother's brother's sister did that etc. (like the relatively recent thread we had in The Pits with the AEM installed guys going for 240whp etc. When pressed for details they disappear) But without some kind of resonable verification, you gotta go with what you know.

Wow, kinda weird to think Im 2nd place in the NA HP club. Of course, someone could be higher than me but I have the sheet to prove it. I just got a second wind, Im getting into the 14s this year. Being one of a few is a big push.

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick
I just got a second wind, Im getting into the 14s this year. Being one of a few is a big push.

Lol, atta boy :thumbsup Its addictive ain't it?

i think when you get into the scene that there are only a handful of people WORLDWIDE with actual evidence, it makes things that much more exciting. And as possible that it is that there are others, at the end of the day, when you are pushing a platform as far as it can go like us, its hard to believe someone has done that without some type of research like going to either this website or DSMTuners, or at the very least one of us hearing about it.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
On another note, I am seriously considering dumping the turbo.

Turbo is no more.

Well, this decision hurt. I just can't get to the track often enough to race two cars. I can't afford to tune/fix/modify and go to the track with two cars. I haven't been able to get the NA on the track for close to a year because of this piece of shit turbo (I really do hate turbo cars. They do nothing to peak my interest).

Soooo........I'm in the process of tearing down a perfectly good 570whp 420a (I feel like I'm euthanizing one of my pets before he's ready to die :whoa ). I'll post up an ad in the FS section a little bit. Just too balls to the walls busy lately to do much (and the engine is on hold for now).

Mark, that sounds about right. I do know one person got into the high 14s before you, then a second person did as well, at least as far as we know a second person did who knows if nirtous was involved, I was inclined to think it wasn't, then you shattered the barrier, and I did almost no racing last year so the 15.178 has been it for 2 years now.

I can't really say where I stand in the HP ranking. I haven't dynoed the car in quite a while but consistent 90+ MPH in the 1/4 mile on good launches means I must be higher than stock.

I just got a new header in the car this past weekend. Haven't run a header in a long time so yes the 15.178 is on the stock ECU and stock exhaust manifold with drag radials (shows what potential the car still has! as long as the motor isn't getting tired) and the last header was a 4-2-1 which didn't do anything for the 1/4 mile but helped in low speed driving. This one is a short 4-1 design so here's hoping for 2 more HP, hehe.

Anyway, this Saturday I'm heading up to see what happens, but I am so out of practice I'll be lucky to run a 15.4 with the car.

Oh, and still no megasquirt, stock ECU only. I know, it will help, and I want to bump that redline to 8000 so badly, but I haven't even looked at it for so long I don't even know if the computer is even working properly. Eh, something to do for the future.

Originally posted by VX100
Oh, and still no megasquirt, stock ECU only. I know, it will help, and I want to bump that redline to 8000 so badly, but I haven't even looked at it for so long I don't even know if the computer is even working properly. Eh, something to do for the future.

Now, you know I could have driven up there and we could have switched in a known good MSnS ECU? Of course, she's sold now. But then again I still have the NA ECU........

Good luck today.

MB

Originally posted by bullettdsm

Originally posted by bullettdsm On another note, I am seriously considering dumping the turbo.

Turbo is no more. Well, this decision hurt. I just can't get to the track often enough to race two cars. I can't afford to tune/fix/modify and go to the track with two cars. I haven't been able to get the NA on the track for close to a year because of this piece of shit turbo (I really do hate turbo cars. They do nothing to peak my interest). Soooo........I'm in the process of tearing down a perfectly good 570whp 420a (I feel like I'm euthanizing one of my pets before he's ready to die :whoa ). I'll post up an ad in the FS section a little bit. Just too balls to the walls busy lately to do much (and the engine is on hold for now).

Shat.

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by bullettdsm

Originally posted by bullettdsm On another note, I am seriously considering dumping the turbo.

Turbo is no more. Well, this decision hurt. I just can't get to the track often enough to race two cars. I can't afford to tune/fix/modify and go to the track with two cars. I haven't been able to get the NA on the track for close to a year because of this piece of shit turbo (I really do hate turbo cars. They do nothing to peak my interest). Soooo........I'm in the process of tearing down a perfectly good 570whp 420a (I feel like I'm euthanizing one of my pets before he's ready to die :whoa ). I'll post up an ad in the FS section a little bit. Just too balls to the walls busy lately to do much (and the engine is on hold for now).

Shat.