hi you guys

I was having some grounding issues with my 95 talon esi, and i was driving tonight and all of a sudden the car just shuts off, and all the lights go dim, and then build back up. I checked the fuse its still good and when i turn the key, it just doesn't turn over. i tried turning the crank, even pushing the car(3mph)and dumping the clutch. still nothing. So i wanted to know if a stater can seize up? i mean i was going around a tight turn and the oil is low..but i don't want to expect the worse..

But if the engine is seized,what are the ways that i could un-seize it?

thanks

Sounds like you are screwed. Only good way to fix it is with a rebuild.

yea,I am kinda thinking that but i got to take a look at it tomorrow. But the thing is it never had a knock...and the oil light never came on...and i just put a new oil pressure sending unit in. like the car slowly died, it didnt just lock up and make the wheel screech...if thats what happens..

see the thing is the all the light were always flickering when i was driving. i replace both terminals, the battery, and i had a code 44..for battery sensor temperature volts out of limit. to me i just finding if very rare that a starter what lock the almighty 420a up....but i may be wrong?

Could the alternator seize?

take a 19mm socket or wrench, turn the crank pulley bolt by hand. If it turns, be happy. If not, be sad. Very sad. lol

lol. it doesnt turn...i was thinking it could be because the starter is seized..i mean i hear no clunks, or clicks...i was searching on neons.org and saw this http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=323058&hilit=seized+starter his starter was seized i dont know if he couldnt turn the engine manually though

If you cant turn the engine manually, your fucked.

Well the simple way to check would be to take the 2 starter bolts out. Yank the starter out and then try to turn the engine manually. If it still doesn't turn you will probably need to rebuild at least the shortblock.

Originally posted by phr0st187
Well the simple way to check would be to take the 2 starter bolts out. Yank the starter out and then try to turn the engine manually. If it still doesn't turn you will probably need to rebuild at least the shortblock.

x2. try that. if still no go, then sorry.

Originally posted by EAGLE192
i replace both terminals, the battery, and i had a code 44..for battery sensor temperature volts out of limit.

What year is your car? You might have the dreaded ECU failure if it's a 95.

I'm not saying his PCM didn't fail but I'm pretty sure that won't cause the motor to not turn over manually. Could it be part of the problem yes, the whole problem no.

Originally posted by phr0st187Could it be part of the problem yes, the whole problem no.

yea cuz the ecu keeps the motor from turning over manually... HOW THE CRAP COULD IT BE PART OF THE PROBLEM

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC

Originally posted by phr0st187Could it be part of the problem yes, the whole problem no.

yea cuz the ecu keeps the motor from turning over manually... HOW THE CRAP COULD IT BE PART OF THE PROBLEM

What I meant by the post was I'm not sure if his PCM could be bad or not. It is not the cause for the motor/starter locking up. Do you know if it's bad? have you been there an tested it? No. Neither have I which is why I chose my words carefully like the use of "could". If you've ever been paid to work on a car or any general maintenance object than you know you can't give definite answers without inspecting something. All you can do is say "I suspect this" "it could be this". So supposing he buys a new motor/starter and the PCM does somehow by some miracle turn out bad your credibility starts to go down the crapper. That is what I try to prevent(in most cases).

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC

Originally posted by phr0st187Could it be part of the problem yes, the whole problem no.

yea cuz the ecu keeps the motor from turning over manually... HOW THE CRAP COULD IT BE PART OF THE PROBLEM

We still have yet to see a post from the OP stating that the engine itself is seized. Read my above post, you'll see where I'm coming from.

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC
take a 19mm socket or wrench, turn the crank pulley bolt by hand. If it turns, be happy. If not, be sad. Very sad. lol

Originally posted by EAGLE192
it doesnt turn...

Sounds pretty locked up to me :shrug

Remove starter, try again...

Originally posted by phr0st187
I'm not saying his PCM didn't fail but I'm pretty sure that won't cause the motor to not turn over manually. Could it be part of the problem yes, the whole problem no.

Right, but a locked engine would cause the wheels to lock up too, unless the clutch decided to give up the ghost at the same time.

As for the starter "issue"...

sometimes tapping on a starter with a hammer will free it up. Try using a remote starter switch with a freshly charged battery to see if it will kick over.

Personally, with the symptoms that the car is having, if I am reading things right, I wouldn't lean towards a locked engine or a dead starter.

What I've read is that after the lights had already been flickering for a while the car suddenly died in the middle of a turn, coasted to a stop, and won't restart. Turning the key doesn't result in any cranking and attempting to push start the car results in nothing, not even a locked drivetrain. The only code pulled was for the battery temp sensor (which is part of the ECU).

After reading my own summary of the events I'd personally start by checking for a bad battery/alternator/wiring or some combination of those. Also I would double check for spark and fuel while I'm at it since the car won't start on a push start.

Now the 2 things that led me to think that it could be a dead ECU is that the lights were flickering (the ECU contains the voltage regulator for the alternator) and the battery temp sensor fault (also part of the ECU) If the ECU were crapping out and the battery wasn't getting charged properly that could prevent the starter from kicking over and it could also prevent fuel and spark which wouldn't allow the push start to work.

Still I would check the battery, alternator and the rest of the charging system FIRST.

I bet your alternator went out and the starter.

You can buy the starter soleniod cheaper than a whole new, take out your starter hook it up to your battery positive test to see if there's alot of pull on it, if it does then my guess your alternator crapped out on you.

If your engine locked up on you the whole thing will shutdown immediately, my h20 pump went out on me while driving whole car shutdown instantly. DSM'god saved my 2g that day the engine wasn't fuk'd.

Originally posted by dalesmitsu
I bet your alternator went out and the starter. You can buy the starter soleniod cheaper than a whole new, take out your starter hook it up to your battery positive test to see if there's alot of pull on it, if it does then my guess your alternator crapped out on you. If your engine locked up on you the whole thing will shutdown immediately, my h20 pump went out on me while driving whole car shutdown instantly. DSM'god saved my 2g that day the engine wasn't fuk'd.

My response,

YouTube.com

We need to hear back from the OP before anything else gets out of hand.

well, i guess it was the block...

took of the starter and it still didn't move...so push the car down a hill...dumped the clutch....slid to a stop. So i took the engine out, and took the head off, and saw that oil was leaking there the headgasket and the #4 piston was stuck to the side of the cylinder wall....like there was a gap around the piston...but one side of the piston was no gap...so the wall is pretty much warped

thats the best way i can explain it. But I guess all in all does oil in the cylinders make an engine lock up?

Pictures please.

i gotta see this

if there's enough oil it, it can cause a motor to hydrolock, so yes. sounds like the piston rings may have come apart.

Lol there is no way to get pics, unless i take them with my laptop webcam and then upload them...ill try tomorrow though..but basically nothing looks damage...i took the oil pan off and everything is in tact...the weird thing about it is that the exhaust valves feel like sandpaper...you could definitely tell it was burning oil....its also weird that all the pistons are aligned in the middle of the block. Like they just all agreed to stop at the same time...lol...so now i have to take the, i think is called the "bedplate" off or whatever its call...so i can take the crankshaft off so i can get the clutch off.

I have tried to unlock the engine..but the crank bolt started to just keep turning so...ITS LOCKED

I even check the water pump.....its not seized, the only thing i could thing of that i havent check was the oil pump, could that lock up? Cause there isn't really a NOTICABLE cause of this engine "locking up" out of nowhere. I talk to a friend and he said that the oil would make it so the piston couldn't move as freely in the cylinder walls, which would in turn make the piston get stuck.

You know ive also notice that, kinda off topic, but i had a screenname on ASEC called avengerowner2, "AO2" and while i am take the engine apart i see "AO2" everywhere....like all the head and stuff.....lol

The crank does not need to be removed in order to remove the clutch.

As for the crank bolt turning, you are turning the crank over in a clockwise direction correct? I hope you were not rotating it in the opposite direction (hence the bolt starting to come loose).

I am not loosening the bolt...lol
but i don't know any other way for taking of the clutch if the crank doesn't turn

Undo the bolts that hold the flywheel to the flex-plate?

Originally posted by CODE4
Undo the bolts that hold the flywheel to the flex-plate?

Except that those are a BITCH to get to if you can't rotate the engine.

To the OP, you might be able to unbolt just the rods from the crank and be able to rotate it that way

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G
To the OP, you might be able to unbolt just the rods from the crank and be able to rotate it that way

There you go. That's the correct answer. Next step is to loosen up the rods one by one. This allows you to help isolate the problem.

unless of course the rods are seized to the crank due to lack of lubrication. probably be better off pulling the engine since it may need to be rebuilt or replaced anyway. unbolt the transmission and then unbolt the clutch.

i actually had a problem where one of the flyweel bolts backed out and jammed in the ring gear causing the motor to lock up. unlikely from what i've read though.

Originally posted by hazard_eclipse
unless of course the rods are seized to the crank due to lack of lubrication.

And that's the advantage of loosening up the bolts one at a time. If you spun a bearing, just loosening up the cap will allow the crank to turn some (if not all the way). Now, if it was so bad that you welded the rod to the crank, you would be able to see that from just pulling the pan. If its me, I'm not just loosening up the rods, I'm pulling the caps at the same time so I can read the bearings. Won't hurt anything.

This also allows to see if the piston moves freely in the cylinder (could be ring seizure).

With all this said, there is certainly a possibility that it could be clutch/flywheel related (as hazard alluded to).

well i got another block from the junkyard but one cylinder has rust in it....enough to lock it up....it was spinning but now it stopped....maybe if i use some PB blaster it would free it up?

maybe?

Originally posted by EAGLE192
well i got another block from the junkyard but one cylinder has rust in it....enough to lock it up....it was spinning but now it stopped....maybe if i use some PB blaster it would free it up?

Take it back.. Or beat out the piston from the bottom end. Just use a piece of wood so you dont damage anything anymore. Both 420A blocks I tore down were rusted solid and thats how I did it. But I was also having them machined.

Just be careful.