Anybody ever have this problem before? When I make any extended right turns, like on an off ramp, if not in gear my idle bounces up and down between 2500 and 3500 rpm, and when left in gear it makes the car jolt every 2 seconds or so. Everything is like normal on left turns though, it's got me pretty confused and I don't even know where to begin.

Fuel starvation.

On right turns the fuel is pushed to the left side of the gas tank where the Pump is located on the right side.

Left hand turns the fuel is thrown to the right side of the tank where the fuel pump is located.

The ECU is prolly seeing low level knock when the fuel leans out and as a result it retards timing which pulls torque away from the motor. When the fuel returns the ECU add timing per the ignition map and that gives you the feeling of more torque making the car lurch forward. Low RPMS in vacuum our ECU will run as high as 41* of timing. WOT we see about 25* in lower RPMS and 20-21* after 3000RPM

There are baffles installed in the tank to prevent this issue; however, yours may have come loose or are partially broken ect.

Fill the gas tank up and then try it.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Fuel starvation. On right turns the fuel is pushed to the left side of the gas tank where the Pump is located on the right side. Left hand turns the fuel is thrown to the right side of the tank where the fuel pump is located. The ECU is prolly seeing low level knock when the fuel leans out and as a result it retards timing which pulls torque away from the motor. When the fuel returns the ECU add timing per the ignition map and that gives you the feeling of more torque making the car lurch forward. Low RPMS in vacuum our ECU will run as high as 41* of timing. WOT we see about 25* in lower RPMS and 20-21* after 3000RPM There are baffles installed in the tank to prevent this issue; however, yours may have come loose or are partially broken ect. Fill the gas tank up and then try it.

Well I don't belive it to be a fuel issue, even though that was a good idea. It still does it on a full tank. I filled up this morning and the same thing happened getting off the highway. I've let the car idle and wiggled all the wires I could get my hands on and it never missed a beat. The only other idea I have, is maybe the oil pump? I do know when I ran low on oil last year and made any extended right turns, the idle would rise but it was consistent, not up/down. Maybe I'll just do a full tune-up and see what happens, fuel filter, oil change/filter, plugs, renew my coolant(just because lol) and a new K&N filter.

Explain your reasoning for an oil pump causing your idle surge.

Back a year or two ago, my oil pressure switch decided to "split" ways with the engine and I lost most of the oil over a few days time. I began to notice anytime I made any sharp right turns the idle would surge upward for the duration of the turn. When I checked the oil, there was none on the dipstick, found the problem and fixed it and all was back to normal. Thankfully it didn't damage the engine, still runs strong to this day(my dd that is). That's why I thought there might be something going on with the pump, although the oil level is fine. I'm lost and out of ideas :shrug

Damn... I am surprised you had any oil past a minute if you were operating without an oil pressure switch.

Originally posted by CODE4
Damn... I am surprised you had any oil past a minute if you were operating without an oil pressure switch.

The back half of the switch probably broke off leaving the threaded portion in the block. It'll shoot a nice thin stream of oil but nothing that would drain the pan in record time.

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G

Originally posted by CODE4 Damn... I am surprised you had any oil past a minute if you were operating without an oil pressure switch.

The back half of the switch probably broke off leaving the threaded portion in the block. It'll shoot a nice thin stream of oil but nothing that would drain the pan in record time.

Yup! Mine was blowing out of the connector. Drove like it for two weeks. Only lost a half quart of oil.

You can also try a fuel pump rewire kit to get some extra push from the pump.

Originally posted by User_22
You can also try a fuel pump rewire kit to get some extra push from the pump.

Yeah, I always figured that a stronger pump would work better, even if the fuel was sloshing to the other side and not near the pickup!

:rolleyes

Let's not forget the infamous EGR tube melting the harness down the driver's side of the head. Your crank and cam position sensors run signal lines through that section en route to the ECU. The heat from the EGR tube running alongside these wires melt the insulation, exposing conductors to one another (or the block), thereby causing intermittent loss of CKP/CMP signal, which the ECU interprets as loss of mechanical timing, thus tripping the ASD relay, which cuts the ignition.

I've had this happen on both a Neon and a 2GNT. What a coincidence. The symptoms ONLY occur when making a right turn if you're not actively giving it some gas. Coast around a right-hander fast enough with the clutch in and your foot off the gas and the car might just up and die on you instantly.

:wary

Disconnect the little wire on the powersteering pump and tell me if it still does it?

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Disconnect the little wire on the powersteering pump and tell me if it still does it?

how would the powersteering pressure switch have an effect?

I have no idea! LMFAO x10!! It actually WORKED though, it still barely pulses but not near as bad as before. Thanks Terry, you're the man! So what would cause this, a bad ps sensor or something more complicated? If it's just the switch, will it hurt anything leaving it unplugged?

yes. please terry, please elaborate on why this is. blows my mind.

In order to understand "why" you need to understand how the system works.


When you turn your wheel.....ask yourself what your actually doing to the motor. Powersteering is accomplished by the pumping of hydraulic fluid (powersteering fluid is the same thing) through the rack and pinion assy to take some of the stress off your tiny little arms. So if the powersteering pump all of a sudden has to pump fluid to make the car eaiser to turn the pump itself will become harder to spin becuase its a pump! This places additional load on the motor.

The engineers at Chrysler didnt want this additional load to bog down the motor and they wanted the pump to only work hard when it was totally necassary. So the ECU is programmed to idle the motor up when there is a load placed on the pump or the powersteering circuit becomes active. What tells the ECU the circuit is active? The sensor in the powersteering pump. The pump itself isnt laboring while it spins becuase the system does have an internal valving that works based on steering wheel turnign motion. Remember when you remove a P/S people loop the PS lines together? As you turn the wheel one line spurts fluid the other draws fluid in? This pressure differential is also what makes the internal valving of a powersteering pump work only when needed. This valving assy (Rotary Valve) is actually in the rack and pinion and I suspect may be the issue. The Orifaces that are utilized when the steering shaft is turned right are worn out and possibly leaking makign the P/S pump labor.

Back on topic:

If you were to fool the ECU that the powersteering pump is active then its going to constantly try to idle the motor up. While your in your turn, if your not constantly adding and subtracting your turn radius then the circuit isnt active. The circuit is only active during the actual turning motion. Your in your right turn and the ECU thinks you keep turning the wheel more. By unplugging the Sensor, the ECU no longer thinks your doign a thing and will not attempt to idle the motor up.

Why? You may be low on powersteering fluid. If the pump is trying to constantly add fluid to the right chamber of the rack (used during right turns) and its got low fluid causing air bubbles it might be trying to constantly add fluid to that side and cause the ECU to "see" and active circuit. I suspect the rotary valve in the rack is the issue. Why not do it on a left turn? The rotary vlave spins the opposite direction on aleft turn and a totally different set of valve orifaces are being used. It could be a bad Sensor but I would be tempted to believe the issue would be apparent during left hand turns as well.

Will it do any damage? NO. Us MSNS users who run without an IAC actually are running without the ECU compensation. You might notice the motor will bog slightly in RPMS when your sitting still and turning the wheel.

Lesson is over.

speechless. so i'm assuming that unplugging the power steering pressure switch is a plus...? i guess i should unplug it...? amazed at the information....

I wouldn't consider it a "plus". Especially if your PS is working just fine.
At the same time, just unplugging that little wire is sort of like putting a band-aid on the issue.

OK, I have another question. Anybody running without a power steering pump, how much harder from stock is it to turn the wheels without it? I know you have to loop the system, so is it like when your car dies and you have to turn into a gas station or somewhere or does the "loop" make it a little easier? Cause it's a bitch to turn the wheels with the pump hooked up and no power going through it lol!

It's still pretty hard, looped lines do make it a bit easier but for safety on the road I'd want powersteering. that's just my preference

Just take the belt off and take it for a spin. That will give you all the answer you need. Take it from me, it sucks. It isn't so bad at highway speeds. I have also driven cars with "looped" lines as it were. It is definitely easier, but lets not kid ourselves. Power steering is a luxury that any daily driver can appreciate.

If you do need to replace that valve in your steering rack. My recommendation is to just replace the whole rack. Pull one from a junkyard, or buy a remanufactured one from AutoZone. Either way, not too costly for the option of keeping power steering in my opinion.

Originally posted by bzoss
Just take the belt off and take it for a spin. That will give you all the answer you need. Take it from me, it sucks. It isn't so bad at highway speeds. I have also driven cars with "looped" lines as it were. It is definitely easier, but lets not kid ourselves. Power steering is a luxury that any daily driver can appreciate. If you do need to replace that valve in your steering rack. My recommendation is to just replace the whole rack. Pull one from a junkyard, or buy a remanufactured one from AutoZone. Either way, not too costly for the option of keeping power steering in my opinion.

The valve is not replaceable unless you work for a company that rebuild rack and pinion assy's.

Originally posted by Nightfall
OK, I have another question. Anybody running without a power steering pump, how much harder from stock is it to turn the wheels without it?

I have been running without a power steering pump for a few months now. It will be hard to turn when you are at a dead stop, but if you are moving, it is not very hard to turn. I think the steering feels better without the pump.. I will never go back.

Just take the belt off for a week and see if you like it. It will seem hard at first, but you will get used to it and it will feel normal.

Originally posted by adamzty

Originally posted by Nightfall OK, I have another question. Anybody running without a power steering pump, how much harder from stock is it to turn the wheels without it?

I have been running without a power steering pump for a few months now. It will be hard to turn when you are at a dead stop, but if you are moving, it is not very hard to turn. I think the steering feels better without the pump.. I will never go back. Just take the belt off for a week and see if you like it. It will seem hard at first, but you will get used to it and it will feel normal.

I ran for the better part of a year without PS and I was glad when I put it back on. It took a little while to keep from overcompensating

+1 xBazzillion

There is a reason that only the cheapest P.O.S. cars are offered from the factory without PS. That is because PS is not only great and a luxury, but a necessity in some cases.

it wasnt a nec in the 70's? I have a 2800lb car worth 10 times (honestly) what your 2gnt cost. Something i would hardly call a POS and it doesnt have powersteering.

Last I checked this is not the 70's.... and PS is pretty standard on any new car.

Why is it that everyone on this forum has some kind of chip on their shoulder. Try selling your 2gnt for 10x what you think it is worth and see where you get. You may just find that it is more of a Piece of Shit than you think.

Kindly, go fuck yourself.

Originally posted by bzoss
Last I checked this is not the 70's.... and PS is pretty standard on any new car. Why is it that everyone on this forum has some kind of chip on their shoulder. Try selling your 2gnt for 10x what you think it is worth and see where you get. You may just find that it is more of a Piece of Shit than you think. Kindly, go fuck yourself.

Originally posted by bzoss
+1 xBazzillion There is a reason that only the cheapest P.O.S. cars are offered from the factory without PS. That is because PS is not only great and a luxury, but a necessity in some cases.

No where did you say new cars or any specific year frame. Its not my fault you just some little kid who doesnt know his ass from a beehive.

where's that little animated GIF picture that paul always puts in of that startrek guy rolling under a closing door....

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC
where's that little animated GIF picture that paul always puts in of that startrek guy rolling under a closing door....

you mean this one?

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC where's that little animated GIF picture that paul always puts in of that startrek guy rolling under a closing door....

you mean this one?

THATS IT!!! AWESOME

This all coming from the dipshit who claims that with his magical cold air intake he can take 80* air in and log 70* intake temps... Cram it up your ass.
I shouldn't have to specify every fucking detail on here if you are truly as all knowing and observant as you think you are.
Did you mother not give you enough attention as a child or something?

Originally posted by bzoss
This all coming from the dipshit who claims that with his magical cold air intake he can take 80* air in and log 70* intake temps... Cram it up your ass. I shouldn't have to specify every fucking detail on here if you are truly as all knowing and observant as you think you are. Did your mother not give you enough attention as a child or something?

Had to fix the R. It was annoying me.

And you sir, are a moron. Quit following Terry around in threads to call him out. He has probably forgotten more than you will ever learn.

Also, if you want to argue, PM him. Its pointless to smear crap over every useful thread.

Tim,

THANK YOU!!!